Scrambled Comms on GMRS

[flecom]

so as long as your not obscuring the meaning of communications can you do unencrypted digital voice on GMRS?

 

[SkipSanders]

No digital modulation allowed on GMRS.

Sec. 95.631 Emission types.

(a) A GMRS transmitter must transmit only emission types A1D, F1D,
G1D, H1D, J1D, R1D, A3E, F3E, G3E, H3E, J3E or R3E. A non-voice emission
is limited to selective calling or tone-operated squelch tones to
establish or continue voice communications. See Sec. 95.181 (g) and
(h).

<snip irrelevant bits>

(e) No GMRS or CB transmitter shall employ a digital modulation or
emission.

 

[flecom]

that sucks

 

[N_Jay]

that sucks

Why?

1/2 the people here whine when an agency uses secure common a privately owned and exclusive (or nearly exclusive) channel, and then 1/2 people want to run secure on channels designed for open shared access?:roll: :roll:

 

[Astro25]

Bah

True encryption is DES-OFB over a Multi-Site Astro25 digital system!!

 

[flecom]

Why?

1/2 the people here whine when an agency uses secure common a privately owned and exclusive (or nearly exclusive) channel, and then 1/2 people want to run secure on channels designed for open shared access?:roll: :roll:

becuase it would be fun to have some frequencies to play with digital (non-encrypted) voice, since the hammies have a titty attack any time they hear that "open squelch noise"

 

[Astro25]

It could just be intermod on the cheap hammy yeasu's and/or scanners. I've heard DES-XL like intermod on cheop scanners and ham rigs before. No, it was not encryption, just intermod. But you never know I suppose

 

[RayAir]

But they would have to know who it was, right?

I wouldn't worry much about them looking for you for using encryption on GMRS/FRS or MURS. I have used DES on MURS and rolling code on FRS. It's not a big deal.

 

[DiGiTaLD]

Experimenting

becuase it would be fun to have some frequencies to play with digital (non-encrypted) voice, since the hammies have a titty attack any time they hear that "open squelch noise"

As long as you are on a simplex frequency somewhere and not maliciously interfering with anybody else's communications, tell the old farts that are still whining about Morse code testing being eliminated to go get bent. That's what's so nice about amateur radio, you can experiment with stuff, legally.

 

[poltergeisty]

Wold sub carrier audio be considered encryption? :lol: I would like to do this, however I probably need to tap the discriminator before the mixer or something. Maybe they sell boards to do this or possibly the circuit is just a simple SCA type.

I would love to add a burst transmitter too. :lol:

http://www.tscm.com/bugfrqVLF.html

http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/circ/sca-pll.html

 

[N_Jay]

Wold sub carrier audio be considered encryption? :lol: I would like to do this, however I probably need to tap the discriminator before the mixer or something. Maybe they sell boards to do this or possibly the circuit is just a simple SCA type.

I would love to add a burst transmitter too. :lol:

http://www.tscm.com/bugfrqVLF.html

http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/circ/sca-pll.html

I just love how you suggest things you know nothing about, . . . . .

and then go on with the post proving so!:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[kb2vxa]

This thread is beginning to sound like a jackass farm.

 

[poltergeisty]

I just love how you suggest things you know nothing about, . . . . .

and then go on with the post proving so!:lol: :lol: :lol:

Yes I do know what SCA is..no I do not know how to build a circuit to accomplish this. Make sense now? :roll:

I will find out here, so what is the FCC's word on such a device, huh? That's all I ask.....

BTW~ I am not proving anything. Maybe in your reckless interpretation again, as usual..It's a forum! Interpretation is seldom accurate. The prof is in the Tavern.

 

[kc8gpd]

No digital modulation allowed on GMRS.

Sec. 95.631 Emission types.

(a) A GMRS transmitter must transmit only emission types A1D, F1D,
G1D, H1D, J1D, R1D, A3E, F3E, G3E, H3E, J3E or R3E. A non-voice emission
is limited to selective calling or tone-operated squelch tones to
establish or continue voice communications. See Sec. 95.181 (g) and
(h).

<snip irrelevant bits>

(e) No GMRS or CB transmitter shall employ a digital modulation or
emission.

It sure would be nice if they would allow DRM or P25 or some other form of narrowband digital Modulation on 27 MHz.

They should allow this, and allow a power increase when using digital as an incentive to migrate to the digital mode.

there is no reason for the use of outdated technology on 27MHz.

the cost of technology has come waaaay down from the early days of CB when it was very expensive for a 4W am or 12w ssb radio.


this apparently was the justification for the use of 27MHz and the AM Mode when CB was first created.

 

[RayAir]

Why?

1/2 the people here whine when an agency uses secure common a privately owned and exclusive (or nearly exclusive) channel, and then 1/2 people want to run secure on channels designed for open shared access?:roll: :roll:

"The urge to discover secrets is deeply ingrained in human nature, even the least curious mind is roused by the promise of sharing knowledge withheld from others."
-John Chadwick
The Decipherment of Linear B

 

[N2DLX]

I'm assisting in digging up an old thread, but I wanted to give a better interpretation of the OP's question:

Voice scrambling on GMRS is allowed provided that it's a single-code, non-rolling, speech inversion type scrambler. That sounds confusing to most, I know. Basically, in the case of the Icom radios, you can use the UT-109 non-rolling scrambler legally, but NOT the UT-110 rolling-code scrambler.

A simple non-rolling scrambler can be unscrambled easily (all you need is another scrambler, or find a program online that'll do it for free). When using a rolling scrambler, the "codes" change every second or so, and follow a proprietary hopping algorithm. Without having the same scrambler in your radio set to the same code, you have little to no hope of unscrambling the audio. This crosses over into the realm of "encryption", even though most of us know it's nothing like true encryption.

At any rate, simple scramblers are okay, anything that changes codes or is a true encryption method is illegal on ALL personal radio services, including MURS. Part 95 of the FCC Rules cover FRS, GMRS, MURS, CB, and the lesser-known personal radio services.

I use Icom's built-in voice scrambler on my radios when I need to say something over our repeater that I don't want people to hear. On the other hand, if it's something REALLY important and can't be heard by anyone else, I'll just give someone a call to say what has to be said. I realize unscrambling my audio is very easy to do, so I still watch what I say. It's good for giving something like a phone number out over the repeater, but not for a social security number or home street address or something.

 

[bezking]

N2DLX: Thank you for your very informative post - much appreciated!!

Thanks again-
Bezking

 

[n8emr]

Would I be violating the law if I put a scrambler board in my Icoms and used it on GMRS??

YES you would be violating the law.

While some FRS/GMRS combo radio's have voice inversion on them, they only work on FRS channels.

 

[N2DLX]

YES you would be violating the law.

While some FRS/GMRS combo radio's have voice inversion on them, they only work on FRS channels.

Not true, the scrambler works on all channels on most models of bubblepack radios. FRS and GMRS are covered by the same rules (Part 95), just have different technical specifications and a difference in licensing requirements.