Selfridge Airshow Freq's

[ssmontecarlo82]

Sitting in the subdivison off of Continental right now. 87.9 is reporting that Chesterfield has shut down eastbound 94 ramp to 21 mile. When I came out around 11:30, the North River Road ramp was shut down already. Traffic is horrible. My boss is supposed to be broadcasting live on WRIF from the show, but has been sitting in traffic for over 2 hours.

Raining pretty good now. Supposed to be clearing up soon.

 

[Xray]

Traffic was quite heavy going in - I got on the 21 mile ramp about 10am and didn't get to my spot, normally a minutes drive from there, until almost 11am.

Day was largely a washout, storms coming, clearing up, and coming again.
Pretty mild rain, but the ceiling dropped to low for anyone to perform.
I understand, **** happens, nothing you can do about the weather - What ticked me off is for days, I have been hearing nothing but sunny skies on Sunday, scattered clouds with a high of 75.
I doubt if it got out of the 60's, and it rained 75% of the day.
They got all this satellite doplar radar and crap, and they were far more accurate 25 years ago, when they actually had to have a brain and skill to predict weather.

They had a B-1 on hold, orbiting at various locations, for over an hour.
Finally came a break in the weather and he did his 3 passes, and flew right back to Texas.

Weather looked a bit promising, I was hoping the F-18 would do his act, and/or the F-86, but they put up those crappy aerobatic props instead for almost an hour, then another rain squall shut things down.

Skies cleared up again for about 20 minutes when I noticed an ominous looking purple cloud hovering into view, the Tbirds were spotted and ready to take off, but canceled the take off when this system blew in.
Half an hour later, they finally managed to get their show in, and once they landed, it was over.
Stayed around a couple hours watching some aircraft take off - Not that many years ago, almost all departing aircraft would do at least one, sometimes 2 or 3, flyovers, then depart.

Not anymore, they took off, and headed for home.
Was hoping the Tbirds would take off, but yet another drizzly rain squall finally drove me away, about 6:30.

A very interesting 3 days, wish these shows came around more often.

 

[Piston52Heavy]

I sat in Wal-Mart's parking lot on Saturday. Personally, I really enjoyed the Super Hornet and the B-1. They should've had the Mig-17 and the F-86 fly together - a simulated dog fight would've been nice. Too bad the weather wasn't the greatest - especially today (Sunday). I was listening this morning and the A-10s were holding over New Baltimore and were discussing how low the clouds were.

 

[Piston52Heavy]

Traffic was quite heavy going in - I got on the 21 mile ramp about 10am and didn't get to my spot, normally a minutes drive from there, until almost 11am.

Day was largely a washout, storms coming, clearing up, and coming again.
Pretty mild rain, but the ceiling dropped to low for anyone to perform.
I understand, **** happens, nothing you can do about the weather - What ticked me off is for days, I have been hearing nothing but sunny skies on Sunday, scattered clouds with a high of 75.
I doubt if it got out of the 60's, and it rained 75% of the day.
They got all this satellite doplar radar and crap, and they were far more accurate 25 years ago, when they actually had to have a brain and skill to predict weather.

They had a B-1 on hold, orbiting at various locations, for over an hour.
Finally came a break in the weather and he did his 3 passes, and flew right back to Texas.

Weather looked a bit promising, I was hoping the F-18 would do his act, and/or the F-86, but they put up those crappy aerobatic props instead for almost an hour, then another rain squall shut things down.

Skies cleared up again for about 20 minutes when I noticed an ominous looking purple cloud hovering into view, the Tbirds were spotted and ready to take off, but canceled the take off when this system blew in.
Half an hour later, they finally managed to get their show in, and once they landed, it was over.
Stayed around a couple hours watching some aircraft take off - Not that many years ago, almost all departing aircraft would do at least one, sometimes 2 or 3, flyovers, then depart.

Not anymore, they took off, and headed for home.
Was hoping the Tbirds would take off, but yet another drizzly rain squall finally drove me away, about 6:30.

A very interesting 3 days, wish these shows came around more often.

I agree with you, I don't care for those crappy aerobatic props either! More jets please!!

 

[N8CBG]

I agree we need to see more jets like the F-22, Earlier this year I called out to the HQ ACC/A3TA, Aerial Events Branch and spoke to one of the Commanders in charge of scheduling the team, I practically begged him to squeeze an F-22 team in the Selfridge show but they had some commitment within the States and some kind of air show over seas in the same time frame, but I tried. I think if we want to see a Raptor demo we’ll need to contact our Congressman for help.

We watched the Saturday show from the Joy Road Park. We were a bit far away but could see everything well, and no traffic problems at all.

The B-1 made a high speed turn right over us with its after burners blazing, it sounded like deep rolling thunder, there’s nothing like it, and kids thought the B-2 was a real UFO especially when it made a 45’ bank turn!

 

[ssmontecarlo82]

I left around 3PM as the second civilian act after the rain showers was going up. I thought that I was going to end up missing a lot of cool stuff, but it appears that I didn't.

I agree with the majority here (or those who are chiming in) that we'd like to see more of the military type stuff as opposed to the civilian acts. Couldn't they have moved things around and put up the T-Birds or any remaining military aircraft as soon as the rains passed (3PM)? Sounds like it rained again, but would there have been enough time before that next delay to get someone up in the air?

Also, no joke, there needs to be something done about traffic. In a previous post I mentioned that my boss was 2 hours late to the Base for his live shift on WRIF. He ended up at least 2.5 hours late, if not more. And he left for the Base from Oakland County with 2 hours of time to spare. The very informative 87.9 indicated that around 1:30 the police closed the 21 Mile road ramp from eastbound 94 because of congestion. The North River ramp was closed when I passed at 11AM. How is any outside traffic supposed to get in at that point? I would have dreaded having any business on Gratiot after 1:30 today.

I know I'm sounding really negative, and I don't mean to make it out that everything is bad. I'm sure it takes an extensive amount of planning to put a show on. However, this isn't the first rodeo there, so I would think that there should have been preparations made for situations that arose like the ones that did today. Weather couldn't be controlled, of course, but what's with the traffic?

I did get a couple of videos from my spot on Continental Dr, just down the street from Chesterfield Police HQ, and they are uploading now. When they are finished, I'll post the link.

 

[Xray]

Those crappy aerobatic prop planes have a purpose, I suppose ,,, None at all to those outside of the base, since they can only be heard and not seen.
My point is, people come to see the high performance jets, no doubt about that - Were it not for them, airshows wouldn't draw 1/20th of what they do.
That being the case, in a situation like this, where weather is a factor and they know they might not be able to get in every act, the jets should get priority - Every single time.
They fly, and if the weathers still good fine, put up the damn props.

They had a prop act droning on and on, while this B-1 was literally doing figure eights in the 24 mile road area for half an hour, waiting for clearance to come in. I thought that was ridiculous.
I heard him on the radio, Hawk 1, and least 4 times, requesting updates on when he could fly his 3 passes and leave.
The guys fly all the way from Texas, go in a holding pattern for half an hour due to weather, then go into another holding pattern cause a damn crop duster is farting around the vicinity.
They should have sent the guy over the lake and told him to do circles over Metro Beach, let the B-1 do his thing, then he can come back and finish when the heavy bomber departs.


As far as the F-18 & F-86 not doing their act, while yet more little props were flying, I grant that maybe there are factors we are not aware of that prevented it.
Ceiling too low perhaps, maybe they just weren't ready on a moments notice, I don't know ,,, But anyone who loves little prop planes farting around must have loved it, while those who came to see the jets were sadly disappointed.

Too, airshows do not have, and probably never will ever again have, the variety of craft to chose from.

Just a scant few years ago, Harriers, Phantoms, F-111's, F-14's, A-7's, E-6's and more were regular performers at shows - None of those are options anymore [except the heritage Phantom, which will likely end its life as a drone in the next couple years - Harriers, not sure if they are retired, they used to be at airshows all the time and put on a great performance, haven't seen one in years].

With jets, its pretty much coming down to F-18's, F-16's and F-15's.
Didn't even have a single F-15 at this show, flying or otherwise ,,, Had 4 non Tbird F-16's, they didn't fly, nor did the 3 other F-18's or the B-52.
Far cry from the old days, not so many years ago ,,, And I fear things aren't going to get much better in the years to come.

 

[Xray]

Also, no joke, there needs to be something done about traffic. In a previous post I mentioned that my boss was 2 hours late to the Base for his live shift on WRIF. He ended up at least 2.5 hours late, if not more. And he left for the Base from Oakland County with 2 hours of time to spare. .

This is an ongoing problem.
Not the last show 2 years ago but the one before that, I hit 21 mile road ramp about 11:30 am with my kids, intending to go on base instead of picking my usual spot at Sugarbush.
Huge mistake.
I **** you not, I wish I was because it still irks me, I did not get on the base until the T-brids were in the air, must have been at least 3 pm.
It was just stone ridiculous, I was fuming and my kids were horrified - 1,000's of others, of course, shared my frustration as, apparently, many more did this year also.
Worse yet for those behind me, they closed the gates about 10 cars behind me, and all those 1,000's of people who waited in line for hours to get on the base, only to be turned around and told to go the other way.

The base is not all that accessible, with only 2 usable entry points.
The only option they have, as I see it, would be to make all 4 lanes of 21 mile east of 94, and both lanes of North River Rd east of 94, east bound to the base, no west bound traffic allowed.
After the show, just the opposite, all lanes flow west, out of the base.

People needing to go the other way in the area, they'll just have to deal with it to find alternate routes, which shouldn't be too hard - They'll simply have to avoid 21 mile rd & north river.

I'm not sure why it has gotten so bad, I have been going to Selfridge shows since I was a kid, and don't remember these super jams until the last 4 shows or so.
Surely the crowd itself cannot have increased that drastically ?

 

[ssmontecarlo82]

Here are the videos from my vantage point. I didn't get anything after 3PM.

Selfridge Airshow - 8-23-09 pictures by ssmontecarlo82 - Photobucket

 

[Xray]

Nice vids ss - I quit taking cams to shows years ago, I should have tried it for at least 1 day this year.
Too bad you didn't stick around for the Tbirds, that would have produced some killer shots.

I was probably about 200 yards away from your spot, to the left and down that road from the cop shop towards the field.

 

[Piston52Heavy]

Those crappy aerobatic prop planes have a purpose, I suppose ,,, None at all to those outside of the base, since they can only be heard and not seen.
My point is, people come to see the high performance jets, no doubt about that - Were it not for them, airshows wouldn't draw 1/20th of what they do.
That being the case, in a situation like this, where weather is a factor and they know they might not be able to get in every act, the jets should get priority - Every single time.
They fly, and if the weathers still good fine, put up the damn props.

They had a prop act droning on and on, while this B-1 was literally doing figure eights in the 24 mile road area for half an hour, waiting for clearance to come in. I thought that was ridiculous.
I heard him on the radio, Hawk 1, and least 4 times, requesting updates on when he could fly his 3 passes and leave.
The guys fly all the way from Texas, go in a holding pattern for half an hour due to weather, then go into another holding pattern cause a damn crop duster is farting around the vicinity.
They should have sent the guy over the lake and told him to do circles over Metro Beach, let the B-1 do his thing, then he can come back and finish when the heavy bomber departs.


As far as the F-18 & F-86 not doing their act, while yet more little props were flying, I grant that maybe there are factors we are not aware of that prevented it.
Ceiling too low perhaps, maybe they just weren't ready on a moments notice, I don't know ,,, But anyone who loves little prop planes farting around must have loved it, while those who came to see the jets were sadly disappointed.

Too, airshows do not have, and probably never will ever again have, the variety of craft to chose from.

Just a scant few years ago, Harriers, Phantoms, F-111's, F-14's, A-7's, E-6's and more were regular performers at shows - None of those are options anymore [except the heritage Phantom, which will likely end its life as a drone in the next couple years - Harriers, not sure if they are retired, they used to be at airshows all the time and put on a great performance, haven't seen one in years].

With jets, its pretty much coming down to F-18's, F-16's and F-15's.
Didn't even have a single F-15 at this show, flying or otherwise ,,, Had 4 non Tbird F-16's, they didn't fly, nor did the 3 other F-18's or the B-52.
Far cry from the old days, not so many years ago ,,, And I fear things aren't going to get much better in the years to come.

There was no F-15? Not even on static display? What the.....? Who's in charge of this stuff? If you're gonna have an air show, make sure different types of aircraft are available. As far as the flying part of the show, the modern stuff should have priority over the cute little bi-planes that do twists, turns and stalls. I would think most people would rather see a F-15, F-16, F-18, F-22, etc fly rather than a little prop. As I posted before, the Mig-17 and F-86 should've flown together!

 

[Xray]

Not a single F-15, in the sky or on the ground - Probably a 1st for a Selfridge show since the F-15's came out.
You would think that a military base which has an airshow only every other year would have a bit more pull than that.

I say if theres the least possible doubts about weather interfering with the show during the day, put a priority on the jets. Make sure they fly, then fit the props in after that.
I can even see the exception with the Tbirds of Angels, they are accustomed to being show closers, and most likely no one wants to fly after them.
That would be like Sammy Haggar following Jimi Hendrix ,, But any other jet act on the roster should have absolute priority before the civilian props.

Ifs its a crystal clear day with nothing but blue skies, then mix the props acts in with the jets.
In short, they need more flexibility to give the folks the most bang for the buck in various scenarios.

 

[ssmontecarlo82]

Not a single F-15, in the sky or on the ground - Probably a 1st for a Selfridge show since the F-15's came out.
You would think that a military base which has an airshow only every other year would have a bit more pull than that.

I say if theres the least possible doubts about weather interfering with the show during the day, put a priority on the jets. Make sure they fly, then fit the props in after that.
I can even see the exception with the Tbirds of Angels, they are accustomed to being show closers, and most likely no one wants to fly after them.
That would be like Sammy Haggar following Jimi Hendrix ,, But any other jet act on the roster should have absolute priority before the civilian props.

Ifs its a crystal clear day with nothing but blue skies, then mix the props acts in with the jets.
In short, they need more flexibility to give the folks the most bang for the buck in various scenarios.

+1 to everything

 

[Piston52Heavy]

I didn't go because I was out of town on vacation, but it sounds like Thunder Over Michigan was better. I actually flew out of Detroit Metro on July 19th and did see the Blue Angels flying as we were taxing out to the runway. I remember when I was 5 or 6 seeing the Thunderbirds at Selfridge when they flew the T-38s! I would've loved to have seen them or the Blue Angles when they flew the F-4! That would've been cool!!! They should've had a Blackhawk do a flying demo at Selfridge this year.

 

[Xray]

I remember the Angels/Tbirds flying Phantoms, just barely though.
Must have been early 70's when I was 6 or 7 or so, I recall a bunch of people climbing up a tree to get a good vantage point, and I recall the same people flying back down that tree when those Phantoms came screaming over it.
Also remember a little girl, who must have been about my age then, walking down a trail towards us with an ice cream in each hand - The Phantoms knocked her right down to the ground, and she was crying her eyes out with dirt covered ice cream. All the other kids were laughing at her, which of course made it even worse.
I walked over, helped her up and walked her back to where her parents were, and stayed there for a while, warning her when more low, screaming Phantoms were approaching.
A true lady's man, even back then !
Starting when I was a kid, it was always a point of pride with me that I would never cover my ears, but those Phantoms came close to making me make an exception.
[The only aircraft that made me block my ears was a fully loaded KC-135 on takeoff, before they re engined them. It was such a piercing, shrieking high decibel sound that I decided, for the sake of my ear drums, to block em].

We used to watch shows right outside the perimeter fence, back then the cops couldn't care less.
Eventually, they stopped and told people who were right on the approach, literally in front of the landing lights there, to move off to on side or another.
People would move off, but sooner or later more would come, cops would come back and tell them to move ,,, So they started stationing a cop right there, so people wouldn't sit right under the approach.
From there, as the years went by, they wanted people further and further away, until they all together banished any people by the perimeter anywhere during a show.

I can appreciate the need for crowd control and not letting things get too crazy at certain vantage points, but all together, they have gotten very anal about people trying to stake out a good spot outside a base, its developed into almost an art form trying to find one.

 

[N8CBG]

Speaking of Thunder Over Michigan, they charge for there goodies, box seats ect.., so I would have preferred to pay extra for a special parking pass and front row seating like you would for any concert at the Palace. If they did that you could have a sellout if they limited ticket sales and that would cut down on the traffic mess.

I would also pay extra to see the F-22 fly or better yet have the Thunder Birds fly the F-22 Raptors, now were talking, I would also pay extra to see the Blue Angles fly the old F-4’s again like I saw at the Willow Run Air Show in Fall of 1970 and September 1972, now they were a show stopper, you really needed ear plugs for those shows, it was fantastic, I haven’t seen anything like it since.

 

[Xray]

I agree about charging for grandstand seating and VIP parking, that would be great.

Ticket fees might be a bit steep though, to put a gaggle of Phantoms back in the air !
A bit more realistically, but probably not much more likely, I'd like to see the Tbirds transition to F-15's.

 

[KMTC]

I went on Friday and Saturday. Luckily Friday actually had decent weather for photos, unlike the rest of the weekend. Took a bunch of the Demon/Tejas flight - had the pilots looking right at us during their passes before landing. However I ended up leaving 20 mins before the 757 and F-16s showed up. Overall I would say not as good as 2007, but an F-22 would have changed that quickly.
A few from Friday at the link below:

http://img150.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=dsc0220iay.jpg

 

[Xray]

I was just googling around for "air shows", hoping in desperation that there will be another show in the area.
Windsor, for example, sometimes has shows at offbeat times of the year.
Cleveland is the only possibility for me, Sept 7th.

Anyways, ran into this great looking site, this guy has great write ups and pics of dozens of shows around the country from years past, including Selfridge.
airshows

Phantoms nuts, check out the pics he took of the Collings Phantom
F-4 air to air

 

[jpryor]

Besides the aviation frequencies I monitored at the show, the land mobile activity from two years ago that was all 406-420 MHz analog was now essentially all P25 digital and much activity in the 380 MHz range.

Here are my rough notes that build upon Nodak1's P25 discoveries from earlier this year (just had the 396 for monitoring, so no NAC information, but all of these were P25 digital and found via close call):

380.4250 Repeater Output
380.5750 Repeater Output
380.7250 Repeater Output
380.7875 Simplex?
384.9375 Simplex?
390.4250 Repeater Input
390.5750 Repeater Input
390.7250 Repeater Input
396.8750 Simplex?
406.7750 Simplex?
413.4250 Simplex? (Air Boss / Air Show Coord)

One of the repeaters had primarily security related traffic, one had more operations related traffic, and one of the others had crash rescue activity. I did not take that great of notes regarding specific usage though to recall what was what.

Here are some other close call finds:

148.1500 PL 100.0 CAP F1
407.3000 PL 94.8
425.1750 DCS 131
458.9125 Pyro

MPSCS Inputs logged via close call: 821.0625, 821.1375, 821.4250, 821.9000, 822.3875, 822.6500, 822.7375, 822.9875