STARS tower affiliations

[tuttleje]

I ran Pro96com on three different STARS towers to see what other towers are "affiliated" to each specific tower. These affiliations are listed under "Adjacent Site Information". The findings were very interesting and somewhat explain why other RR members have heard Chesapeake Talkgroups through the Leigh Mountain tower.

On the Williamsburg tower (112), the following towers were affiliated: Petersburg (102), Warsaw (104), Rumford (105), Hampton (111), Franklin (116), Burgess (121) and Eastville (122).

On the Petersburg tower (102), the following towers were affiliated: Richmond (101), Rumford (105), Hampton (111), Williamsburg (112), Emporia (115), Franklin (116), South Hill (124), and Leigh Mountain (126).

The affiliation between Petersburg and Leigh Mountain explains why Chesapeake talkgroups (which normally can be heard on the Petersburg tower) can be heard through the Leigh Mountain tower.

On the Hampton tower (111), the following towers were affiliated: Petersburg (102), Williamsburg (112), Waverly (113), Chesapeake (114), Emporia (115), Franklin (116), Burgess (121) and Eastville (122).

It is interesting to note the affiliation between Hampton and Waverly. I have never found the CC channel for Waverly. Further, one would think that there would be an affiliation between Waverly and Petersburg, but I did not see any relationship at this time.

These finding should be food for thought on how the STARS system operates.

 

[gcgrotz]

Interesting...

kind of like the neighbor list used in cellular

 

[RagnarD]

I was under the Waverly tower at 4:30 am hunting for a CC and couldn't find one.

My guess is the controller is online but there is no RF from the site yet.

Waverly took a lightning strike prior to 1st Div. go live and I don't think it has been brought on line yet.

On the STARS contract website there is a contract addendum for cards and other service that was done to the Waverly tower. This documentation is how I know that Waverly is 113 (per my post in the OP's thread yesterday about testing on talkgroup Blue1).

Since the current version of PRO96COM has been released the adjacent tower information can be displayed for STARS.

Prior to yesterday the connected sites information for Chesapeake and Hampton showed Site 113 as "not connected" and the frequency that was shown for the "connected frequency" was the base frequency in table 0 (851.00625).

Bringing Waverly up makes sense because it will help fill any coverage gaps between Williamsburg and Franklin and may also provide some coverage for 3rd Division.

Motorhead3902 will know when there is RF at Waverly and hopefully he will be able to let us know when he can affilate with that site.

73
de
chris
kq4z

 

[W4UVV]

Waverly site frequencies

Below are the frequencies licensed to the Waverly site for STARS operations (WPMW276). The frequencies actually used may differ.

MHZ.
158.9925
159.0075
159.1125
159.1275
159.1425
159.1725
159.1875
159.2025

 

[RagnarD]

Below are the frequencies licensed to the Waverly site for STARS operations (WPMW276). The frequencies actually used may differ.

MHZ.
158.9925
159.0075
159.1125
159.1275
159.1425
159.1725
159.1875
159.2025

Hi W4UVV,

Thanks for the reminder on the voice frequencies OM!

If you look up any of the "confirmed" sites in the database you will note that none of the control channel frequencies are in the same license as the voice/data licenses.

Hampton tower for example broadcasts 4 callsigns via CW; WPVQ205, WPVQ201, (FCC Part 22 licenses on the control channel frequencies) and WPVP999 and WPVI543 (FCC YW licenses).

The control channel frequencies will be under a Part 22 license. If you do a search on CP Radio Service on the FCC's ULS website you will find a slew of Part 22 licenses issued to the Commonwealth of VA. The frequency range these licenses fall under are where you find the control channel frequencies.


--... ...--
-.. .
-.-. .... .-. .. ...
-.- --.- ....- --..

 

[pogbobo]

[OT]

kq4z,

could these be for us on the other side of the state?

WQFP306
WPZG849
WPZG848
WPZG847
WPZG846

ok there are lots lol ... every once and a while I scan my "stars search" list but nothing yet ...

 

[tuttleje]

The Franklin tower (116) is affiliated with the following towers: Petersburg (102), Hampton (111), Williamsburg (112), Chesapeake (114), Emporia (115).

As always, I am impressed at the knowledge and professionalism of the members on the Virginia Forum. The sharing of information (and politeness) is outstanding. It makes the hobby very enjoyable.

 

[RagnarD]

[OT]

kq4z,

could these be for us on the other side of the state?

WQFP306
WPZG849
WPZG848
WPZG847
WPZG846

ok there are lots lol ... every once and a while I scan my "stars search" list but nothing yet ...

Hi Pog,

By no means am I an expert on STARS and I don't purport to be but if I was searching for control channel frequencies for STARS (based on what we have experienced in the Eastern Part of the state) I would do a search between 152.000 and 153.000.

If you have A BCD-3(9)96 you can do a custom search in that range in control channel only mode. I have noticed that using my PSR's in Spectrum Sweeper mode they will not capture the STARS control channel frequencies. I have driven right under the towers in Williamsburg, Chesapeake, Hampton, Petersburg, and Richmond and not once has Spectrum Sweeper hit on the control channels. It will on voice traffic though. Close Call on the Uniden will log a hit on the control channel frequency.

Don't want to take tuttleje's thread off track but if you do a search on STARS here you will be overwhelmed with information. There have been lots of folks put lots of hours into figuring this system out.


"STARS Search" That is an original one. J/K

73
de
chris
kq4z

 

[pogbobo]

thanks Chris! yeah, lets get back on topic lol, i hate hijacking threads ... my bad guys

 

[W4UVV]

Sw Va. Stars

[OT]

kq4z,

could these be for us on the other side of the state?

WQFP306
WPZG849
WPZG848
WPZG847
WPZG846

ok there are lots lol ... every once and a while I scan my "stars search" list but nothing yet ...

VSP frequency assignments of 152 mhz. outputs and 157/158mhz. mobile inputs with a few possible exceptions are STARS frequencies for SW Va. For operations near the W. Va. state line STARS mobiles are limited to 50 watts maximum to minimize possible RFI to W. Va. users.

 

[richrowl]

Richmond Tower Affiliations

Information from pro96com this evening showed the Richmond tower (101) was affiliated with the following towers:

102 petersburg
103 Louisa
105 Rumford
106 Thornburg
107 Fork Mountain
125 Cumberland
126 Leigh Mountain

 

[tuttleje]

Thanks "richrowl". If anyone else can run Pro96com on Louisa, Warsaw, Rumford, Thornburg, Eastville, South Hill, Burgess, Fork Mountain, Cumberland and Leigh Mountain, this would really assist in "mapping" the affiliation of the various towers.

Since the affiliations stay the same (at least from what I can see), when the mapping of coverage is completed, it would be beneficial for a database administrator to incorporate the information into the STARS database.

 

[dtscho]

I've had Pro96Com running on the Thornburg tower (106) for over an hour now, and nothing is showing in "Adjacent Site Information." Does this sound correct? Everything else seems to be working OK in the program--affiliations, talkgroups, frequencies, etc. Maybe I'll have to try at a busier time of day.

By the way, this is with a PSR-500.

Dave

 

[n4jri]

I've had Pro96Com running on the Thornburg tower (106) for over an hour now, and nothing is showing in "Adjacent Site Information." Does this sound correct? Everything else seems to be working OK in the program--affiliations, talkgroups, frequencies, etc. Maybe I'll have to try at a busier time of day.

By the way, this is with a PSR-500.

Dave

Dave, I was with Richard when that reading came up, and it was right after he tried activating the Dump screen. I don't know if it had a cause-and-effect relationship, but you might want to try it.

73/Allen (N4JRI)

 

[n4jri]

The affiliation between Petersburg and Leigh Mountain explains why Chesapeake talkgroups (which normally can be heard on the Petersburg tower) can be heard through the Leigh Mountain tower.

Are you sure about this cause-and-effect, or is it an assumption? It seems to imply two things that need clarification and/or investigation:

1 - Simulcasting - nothing that I've seen about STARS has mentioned simulcasting of TG's by adjacent sites, and most of what I've seen or heard has emphasized that sites will not normally carry TG's unless there are user radios affiliated with that site on those TG's.

2 - Affiliation vs. Connection - So far as know, user radios are 'affiliated' with a site, and adjacent sites are 'connected.' I'm seeing the two different terms used at least in Pro96Com and and assume that each defines a different relationship.

It's important to separate facts from assumptions and to be sure of what language we're using as we try to figure out this system.

73/Allen (N4JRI)

 

[dtscho]

Dave, I was with Richard when that reading came up, and it was right after he tried activating the Dump screen. I don't know if it had a cause-and-effect relationship, but you might want to try it.

73/Allen (N4JRI)

Allen,

I have both the Packet Dump and PSR Dump screens activated, and so far still no Adjacent Site Information. I'll have to let it run for a little while this morning. Incidentally, I'm also not getting a WACN displayed in Pro96Com this morning either.

Dave

EDIT: Got the WACN a few minutes ago. Pro96Com needs some time to acquire data from STARS...

 

[n4jri]

Allen,

I have both the Packet Dump and PSR Dump screens activated, and so far still no Adjacent Site Information. I'll have to let it run for a little while this morning. Incidentally, I'm also not getting a WACN displayed in Pro96Com this morning either.

Dave

EDIT: Got the WACN a few minutes ago. Pro96Com needs some time to acquire data from STARS...

Are you experiencing any delay in "Analyze" on the radio? I find that he takes quite a while to get a stable percentage reading on a CC. Doing a test in Ashland the other day, I read 99% on Thornburg, but the radio would not display a SysID and seemed to be choking on the audio.

 

[tuttleje]

"Are you sure about this cause-and-effect, or is it an assumption"

It's an assumption at this time...until we can get more data. However, based on what I've seen/heard on the STARS system, it's somewhat logical.

Are those members using Pro96com on STARS have the most recent version? The previous version did not show towers connected. I'm using Version 1.6.5 build 79.

Further, if you watch the data dump, it will show affiliation and described the affiliated tower as "02" for tower 102 or 12 for tower 112. The data dump periodically receives all the affiliated towers. This data is what Pro96com uses to produce the "Adjacent Site Information" list.

I agree on the difference between affiliation and connected via the adjacent site list. It will be interesting to see the "spider web" of relations between the towers. How, for example, would a mobile unit near Leigh Mountain communicate on TG 51 to a Unit in Williamsburg? Would it flow through a common connected site (Petersburg)?

I know that I cannot normally hear Norfolk units (TG 51) through the Williamsburg tower (Williamsburg is not "connected" to the Chesapeake tower). However, when I listen to the Hampton tower, I have no problem hearing TG 51.

It could be because there is no TG 51 Unit affiliated with the Williamsburg tower at that moment in time. But at least I know which tower to monitor to hear the Norfolk transmission.

There is still a tremendous amount of information to learn/discover about the STARS system.


The purpose of this exploration is to look at the various possibilities of the STARS structure....unless we have a system engineer for STARS that can set the details of the structure.

 

[tuttleje]

Here is a screen view of the site information (compressed to fit RR) that was showing for Petersburg (site 102)

 

[dtscho]

Are you experiencing any delay in "Analyze" on the radio? I find that he takes quite a while to get a stable percentage reading on a CC. Doing a test in Ashland the other day, I read 99% on Thornburg, but the radio would not display a SysID and seemed to be choking on the audio.

I'm getting a solid 99% for Thornburg from my location near Fredericksburg. Fork Mountain seems to be between 86-99%. I never get a SysID, WACN or tower on the scanner.

Dave