Status of MSP Aviation frequencies?

[LiftAssist]

I am looking to get into scanning, and I wanted to make sure I'm not operating on outdated Information before I start looking at VHF low band antennas. The EMRC website and resources say that SYSCOM and MSP Aviation use 44.74 MHz and 47.66 MHz for comms and consults. Looking at the database I see entries for National Interoperability channels and FiRST talkgoups.

Does anyone know what frequencies are used for the functions initially meant for 44.74 MHz and 47.66 MHz? Have consults been encrypted and/or moved to a trunked system?

 

[Solidjake]

MSP as in Michigan State Police? Maryland?

Aviation frequencies are always VHF

 

[maus92]

MSP as in Michigan State Police? Maryland?

Aviation frequencies are always VHF

SYSCOM is a Maryland resource that dispatches state police helicopters, and their helicopters have all-band radios.

 

[KevinC]

MSP as in Michigan State Police? Maryland?

Aviation frequencies are always VHF

Seeing how this is in the Maryland forum I'm going with Maryland...but I could be wrong.

 

[Solidjake]

SYSCOM is a Maryland resource that dispatches state police helicopters, and their helicopters have all-band radios.

Ah good to know. Thanks

 

[maus92]

I am looking to get into scanning, and I wanted to make sure I'm not operating on outdated Information before I start looking at VHF low band antennas. The EMRC website and resources say that SYSCOM and MSP Aviation use 44.74 MHz and 47.66 MHz for comms and consults. Looking at the database I see entries for National Interoperability channels and FiRST talkgoups.

Does anyone know what frequencies are used for the functions initially meant for 44.74 MHz and 47.66 MHz? Have consults been encrypted and/or moved to a trunked system?

It depends on what part of the state. 44.74 is still used, but the long-term plan is to use one of the 700 MHz A-G frequencies to communicate with SYSCOM, which also uses a talkgroup on the 700 statewide system from time to time. For consults, EMRC can use 47.66 or another resource, but tbh it is rare to hear an airborne consult. EMRC does not encrypt communications and has no plans to do so. Some localities do use encrypted talk groups for medical coordination with hospitals, but consults are patched through EMRC. Bottom line is VHF is going away, and the 700 channels will be used - eventually.

 

[fireboat61]

It depends on what part of the state. 44.74 is still used, but the long-term plan is to use one of the 700 MHz A-G frequencies to communicate with SYSCOM, which also uses a talkgroup on the 700 statewide system from time to time. For consults, EMRC can use 47.66 or another resource, but tbh it is rare to hear an airborne consult. EMRC does not encrypt communications and has no plans to do so. Some localities do use encrypted talk groups for medical coordination with hospitals, but consults are patched through EMRC. Bottom line is VHF is going away, and the 700 channels will be used - eventually.

The other day I saw a picture of a Syscom Dispatcher at the console. I could definitely make out 44.74 and 47.66 on the screen. What was kind of blurry was the 7 Air 6_?. I think the console showed 7 Airmed 63?. I recall in the past 3-4 years ago hearing Syscom communicating to Trooper 1 on 7 Air 60 using my Unication G5. I heard these transmissions only while on shift in AACo. Once over the bridge that frequency went silent, as well as 44.74 which I have never heard on shore or the MD coastal areas. I used to hear the transmissions often while in the Baltimore metro area. I would assume that the low Band would travel pretty far. I even was using a Motorola CDM1250 Low Band with a low band antenna tuned to 45-50mhz.

Question is whether Syscom is still using 7Air60 or has changed to 7-Air 6(1-2-3) ect. Also Im pretty sure that 44.74 and 7 Air 6_? was or may still be patched together. I will be doing some testing and running a scanlist with just the 7 air 60's frequencies. Fingers crossed.

Side not I frequent the DE shore and I am close enough to NJ to pick up the NJ Statewide trunk system, Its nice to be to hear the NJ state police Helo's flying. They use the NJ trunking system for normal operations. Hoping oneday the Maryland helo"s will utilize the FiRST and can be heard statewide. Delaware State Police helo's tralkgroup is encrypted other then making a Fire/Ems response on the fire tkgps.

 

[maus92]

The problem is (was) that the AW139 is not certified for installation of 700 MHz trunking radios. You do hear the Medic using a portable on the SYSCOM tg from time to time.

 

[fireboat61]

The problem is (was) that the AW139 is not certified for installation of 700 MHz trunking radios. You do hear the Medic using a portable on the SYSCOM tg from time to time.

Good to know. Did not realize that they maybe using a portable.

I know this original thread is about Maryland and that's what I am hoping changes so we can hear the Syscom to trooper in flight, but just continuing the medevac discussion. I'm thinking the AW139 may now be certified because NJ State Police fly AW139's and utilize the NJ statewide trunking system. I hear lots of radio traffic from these 3 tkgps on the Cape May Co. Site. Nothing to

JEMSTAR S

Medevac Operations - South Jersey

JEMSTAR N

Medevac Operations - North Jersey

Aviation Units

Aviation Units

 

[maus92]

That's interesting. I wonder what radio was approved for installation?

 

[maus92]

It looks like Maryland got a STC for a single aircraft (possibly several) for installation of a Technisonic TDFM-9100 P25 radio in 2019. This is from EASA's list of STCs. Perhaps MSP will install more radios over time. I don't see other STCs for similar radios for the NJSP. Note that the NJSP also operates 2 Bell 206's, and the 206's are approved for the Technisonic radios.

 

[LiftAssist]

It depends on what part of the state. 44.74 is still used, but the long-term plan is to use one of the 700 MHz A-G frequencies to communicate with SYSCOM, which also uses a talkgroup on the 700 statewide system from time to time. For consults, EMRC can use 47.66 or another resource, but tbh it is rare to hear an airborne consult. EMRC does not encrypt communications and has no plans to do so. Some localities do use encrypted talk groups for medical coordination with hospitals, but consults are patched through EMRC. Bottom line is VHF is going away, and the 700 channels will be used - eventually.

Thanks, I know some FAA charts include the 47.66 and 123.05 for communicating with hospitals. I assume the 123.05 is for landing at busier hospitals like DC Medstar and Shock Trauma. The fact that the database lists the Interop channels as P25 supports the idea that they finally upgraded their comms. It is disappointing to hear that the radio consults are rare, Re-reading the MIEMSS comms page I see they reference the option for flight medics to use the EMSTEL phones.

Given all of this, I'm gonna hold off on dealing with the headache that would be come with a VHF lowband antenna. Look forward to spending more time on the forums as I get into this hobby, thanks for all the help!

 

[maus92]

OK, I found some more info. The STC holder is a company in Canada (Technisonic is also a Canadian company, so perhaps they have a relationship.) The holder owns all the documentation, data, drawing, etc. for the modification to install the radio. Theoretically, the holder can give permission (likely for a fee) to use their data and documentation to others who wish to perform the same modification. Perhaps the NJSP did this, but I'm not sure if the MSP did the same as I've only heard them using portables when accessing the statewide TRS. They use an aircraft radio when they come up local systems. You can tell because it is much more understandable.

 

[LiftAssist]

OK, I found some more info. The STC holder is a company in Canada (Technisonic is also a Canadian company, so perhaps they have a relationship.) The holder owns all the documentation, data, drawing, etc. for the modification to install the radio. Theoretically, the holder can give permission (likely for a fee) to use their data and documentation to others who wish to perform the same modification. Perhaps the NJSP did this, but I'm not sure if the MSP did the same as I've only heard them using portables when accessing the statewide TRS. They use an aircraft radio when they come up local systems. You can tell because it is much more understandable.

I was going to say, when I hear them on Montgomery County air it sounds like they are using an aircraft radio. I don't know why they would have an issue getting on FiRST if they are able to get on MoCo. Both of the Technisonic 9100 models can handle 764 MHz-870 MHz and I believe FiRST starts somewhere around 769 MHz. I assume that it has to do with range issues and having different control channels based on location. If I had to guess (without hearing it myself) they might talk on portables when they are on the ground or in the process of taking off and landing.

I'll be sure to update if I find anything new once I am able to set everything up for uhf and (non-low band) vhf scanning.

Here are the remarks from FAA's ADIP for Shock Trauma (MD71), I don't know how current it is but just an interesting thing I found.

 

[maus92]

I was going to say, when I hear them on Montgomery County air it sounds like they are using an aircraft radio. I don't know why they would have an issue getting on FiRST if they are able to get on MoCo. Both of the Technisonic 9100 models can handle 764 MHz-870 MHz and I believe FiRST starts somewhere around 769 MHz. I assume that it has to do with range issues and having different control channels based on location. If I had to guess (without hearing it myself) they might talk on portables when they are on the ground or in the process of taking off and landing.

I'll be sure to update if I find anything new once I am able to set everything up for uhf and (non-low band) vhf scanning.

Here are the remarks from FAA's ADIP for Shock Trauma (MD71), I don't know how current it is but just an interesting thing I found.View attachment 118838

The Technisonics are capable of operating in the 700 freq range. The issue is that the aircraft manufacturer did not certify the aircraft with that model of radio. In order to add a device that is not the aircraft’s equipment list, an STC needs to be developed with supporting engineering data, and the aircraft’s flight manual needs to be updated. It is not a cheap process. The AW139 was originally certified with another make/model of aircraft public safety radio that operates in both conventional and trunking modes in the VHF, UHF, and 800 bands which is why they can operate on MC’s radio system. There is (was) a separate issue with steering systems for 700 MHz conventional A-G channels. Motorola had not developed the required hardware, but may have by now. The MSP definitely uses portables while airborne to communicate on FIRST.

 

[gesucks]

The problem is (was) that the AW139 is not certified for installation of 700 MHz trunking radios. You do hear the Medic using a portable on the SYSCOM tg from time to time.

This is 100% not accurate.

 

[gesucks]

The Technisonics are capable of operating in the 700 freq range. The issue is that the aircraft manufacturer did not certify the aircraft with that model of radio. In order to add a device that is not the aircraft’s equipment list, an STC needs to be developed with supporting engineering data, and the aircraft’s flight manual needs to be updated. It is not a cheap process. The AW139 was originally certified with another make/model of aircraft public safety radio that operates in both conventional and trunking modes in the VHF, UHF, and 800 bands which is why they can operate on MC’s radio system. There is (was) a separate issue with steering systems for 700 MHz conventional A-G channels. Motorola had not developed the required hardware, but may have by now. .

99% of you statement in not correct

 

[maus92]

99% of you statement in not correct

Correct what is wrong so we will know the facts.

 

[maus92]

STC for installation of a Technisonic TDFM-9100 in a AW139 rotorcraft, dated 8/12/2019.

 

[LiftAssist]

99% of you statement in not correct

I asked this question hoping for guidance and possibly an answer. While correcting a misunderstanding is appreciated, "____ is wrong" isn't actually helpful. Even if you don't know what the right explanation is, at least let me know what you believe they got wrong and why.

I have no reason to doubt that you have good intentions and I genuinely hope you elaborate. I hope you don't take this as some sort of attack. I just want to learn.