Talkgroup Patches on Motorola P25 systems

[cellphone]

I posted the question about 2 years ago when GRE addressed the issue in their scanners. 2 years have passed and we are still waiting for a fix. This is an issue on all current Uniden P25 Scanners (BCD396XT, BCD996XT, and HP-1)

http://forums.radioreference.com/uniden-scanners/178397-talkgroup-patch-feature.html

Does Uniden plan to develop firmware to correctly decode patches for Motorola pure P25 systems?

 

[DaveNF2G]

Well, first we need to disaggregate Motorola systems from P25 systems. They are different things. Motorola makes P25 systems, as do other manufacturers.

Second, your original thread complained about patching on a specific P25 system. The Phoenix system has been creating headaches for scanner listeners generally. Perhaps your decode problem is the same problem everybody else has and the patch issue is just another item on that list.

FTR, both scanner families handle patches just fine on P25.

 

[cellphone]

Well, first we need to disaggregate Motorola systems from P25 systems. They are different things. Motorola makes P25 systems, as do other manufacturers..

My issue is related to Motorola ASTRO25 systems. I have not monitored or confirmed the issue on any other manufacturer's P25 trunking system.

Second, your original thread complained about patching on a specific P25 system. The Phoenix system has been creating headaches for scanner listeners generally. Perhaps your decode problem is the same problem everybody else has and the patch issue is just another item on that list.

FTR, both scanner families handle patches just fine on P25.

I can tell you for certain that they do not properly decode patches on these pure P25 systems that I monitor frequently:

Regional Wireless Cooperative (RWC) Trunking System, Phoenix, Arizona - Scanner Frequencies
TOPAZ Regional Wireless Cooperative (TRWC) Trunking System, Mesa, Arizona - Scanner Frequencies
Nebraska Wireless Interoperable Network (N-WIN) Trunking System, Statewide, Nebraska - Scanner Frequencies
Omaha Regional Interoperability Network (ORION) Trunking System, Omaha, Multi-State - Scanner Frequencies
Glendale Public Safety Trunking System, Glendale, Arizona - Scanner Frequencies (no longer online)

On these systems, when two talkgroups are patched, the Uniden scanners receive the talkgroup that the dispatcher selects as the "Super ID" and not the "Subordinate ID" of the patch. GRE scanners decode the patch properly for both talkgroup IDs of the patch on all these systems.

Do the Uniden scanners properly decode patches on some Pure P25 trunked systems? I’m questioning 9600bps control channel systems as patches work just fine on any mixed mode 3600bps control channel system.

 

[mikewazowski]

FTR, both scanner families handle patches just fine on P25.

Actually they don't.

They handle patches fine on the older Motorola systems but not P25 systems.

 

[ICP963]

I will second this comment. The Uniden scanners do NOT properly decode patched talkgroups on the listed systems. As an example if talkgroups 2996 and 2980 on the Phoenix RWC are patched together and the dispatcher has selected 2996 as the Super ID and 2980 as the Subordinate ID and the Uniden is holding on 2980 it hears NOTHING. At the same time if you have a pair of GRE's with one on 2996 and one on 2980 they are both hearing the same audio. I'm thinking some engineer at Uniden is thinking that "Oh well, the scanner hears the audio on the Super ID and that is acceptable."

My issue is related to Motorola ASTRO25 systems. I have not monitored or confirmed the issue on any other manufacturer's P25 trunking system.



I can tell you for certain that they do not properly decode patches on these pure P25 systems that I monitor frequently:

Regional Wireless Cooperative (RWC) Trunking System, Phoenix, Arizona - Scanner Frequencies
TOPAZ Regional Wireless Cooperative (TRWC) Trunking System, Mesa, Arizona - Scanner Frequencies
Nebraska Wireless Interoperable Network (N-WIN) Trunking System, Statewide, Nebraska - Scanner Frequencies
Omaha Regional Interoperability Network (ORION) Trunking System, Omaha, Multi-State - Scanner Frequencies
Glendale Public Safety Trunking System, Glendale, Arizona - Scanner Frequencies (no longer online)

On these systems, when two talkgroups are patched, the Uniden scanners receive the talkgroup that the dispatcher selects as the "Super ID" and not the "Subordinate ID" of the patch. GRE scanners decode the patch properly for both talkgroup IDs of the patch on all these systems.

Do the Uniden scanners properly decode patches on some Pure P25 trunked systems? I’m questioning 9600bps control channel systems as patches work just fine on any mixed mode 3600bps control channel system.

Dave, Yes, the Phoenix system has created headaches for scanner listeners, but GRE has fixed this issue and Uniden SHOULD fix it as well. Uniden has several beta testers in the area and a ton of additional users in this area that would gladly test new firmware fixes for them. I for one would like to see updated firmware for the 996T/396T with some of the same fixes that were released for the 996XT/396XT.

Second, your original thread complained about patching on a specific P25 system. The Phoenix system has been creating headaches for scanner listeners generally. Perhaps your decode problem is the same problem everybody else has and the patch issue is just another item on that list.

 

[SCPD]

Is there going to be fix to this problem anytime soon?
This problem is not unique to the Phoenix system or 800Mhz. The same problem exist on Omaha's P25 system (800) and Nebraska's statewide P25 system (VHF), both made by Motorola.
I have not had a chance to monitor a P25 system made by another company. Anyone listening to a P25 system not made by Motorola having the same problems?

 

[cellphone]

I'll revive this thread. The Talkgroup Patch issue on P25 Phase 1 systems is still not resolved on the BCD436HP. This is the first thing I verified with the new radio. GRE addressed the issue in their radios about 4 years ago.

 

[Forts]

Wow.... Seriously? The 436 doesn't properly handle patched groups? That's a big hit there.... and a checkmark in the "reasons to keep my Pro-106" column.

 

[tbiggums]

This sucks big time! Even older Uniden scanners had followed patches properly on EDACS (and maybe Motorola 3600, too), so they know how useful it is. Why can't they do the same for P25?

GRE figured it out for both Motorola and Harris P25 systems. It's so nice to be able to just scan or park on the talkgroup you want to listen to, and know that you'll hear it--no matter what it's patched to.

Sounds like with the "latest and greatest" Uniden models, you have to make sure that you leave unlocked any possible talkgroup that your desired talkgroup(s) might be patched to (and probably listen to a lot of traffic you're not interested in)... Or if it's a Harris P25 system, you have to keep the whole block of system-assigned patch ID's unlocked, and each time a patch is made, you have to decide if what you're hearing is the talkgroup(s) you're interested in. Not very convenient if you're serious about monitoring a selective set of talkgroups!

I had my hopes up for the new 536 mobile, but between this and not being able to use it on ignition switched power in a vehicle, I'm going to have to pass on it.