Does anyone know if there is a technical or just a software limitation that prevents the XT series to decode radio ID's on conventional APCO-25 transmissions? I have set conventional channels up as p-25 one channel trunk and the ID's decode fine. It is just impractical to set up a system for each digital channel. I would love to see this feature implimented in the near future, as more and more migrate to conventional p-25.
Technical limitation
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MarMatthias
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The IDs come off the control channel. You have to have the XT set up in trunking mode to read the it. Just keying in a p25 frequency treats it like a regular conventional frequency. If you key in a control channel like a conventional, you'll hear the "buzz saw" sound.
Its supposed to do that as it lets you put the audio into a computer and decode it with a computer.
Its more of a feature then a limitation. Its like the XT has a built in discriminator tap.
Actually, the unit ID is always there, with or without a trunking control channel. When I transmit simplex from my portable to another, my ID shows in the receiver's display. (Of course, setting a meaningful ID and choosing to display it are programmable options in the radios). Same goes for single-frequency talkgroups.
MarMatthias
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I've only seen the 396XT decode the ID in a trunk. Just keying in a P25 or any other trunked frequency will get "played" as conventional, the "buzz saw" noise or the beeps and bops on an encrypted channel are clearly heard in that state, even when the Digital AGC is on.
When a frequency is set up as part of a trunked site, the XT will decode and display them if ID Search is set. When the XT is set to ID Scan, it does not display any decoded IDs that are not in the radio's program.
The ID on the digital systems is broadcast throught the transmission in both trunked and conventional. It is imbedded in the digital stream.
The XT as it is currently setup cant decode conventional ID's. However if you take a conventional digital frequency and set it up as a P25 one frequency trunk it will then decode the conventional ID's. I have set the ID's up as talkgroups and had them alias properly. Doing this is just impractical because each conventional digital channel must occupy its own system. So through a firmware upgrade it must be possible to program the alias for conventional digital channels as the radio already can to some extent decode the conventional ID's.
The XT as it is currently setup cant decode conventional ID's. However if you take a conventional digital frequency and set it up as a P25 one frequency trunk it will then decode the conventional ID's. I have set the ID's up as talkgroups and had them alias properly. Doing this is just impractical because each conventional digital channel must occupy its own system. So through a firmware upgrade it must be possible to program the alias for conventional digital channels as the radio already can to some extent decode the conventional ID's.
Correction, you have to set up each conventional frequency as it's own site, but not as it's own system. I've done this with the NHSP and when I'm in range it works pretty well. I haven't set up UIDs as talkgroups because I did this mostly just to see if it would work. If you want to scan that way, you have to set the system to "search" not "scan".
MarMatthias
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Exactly. You only need the TGID if you want the special features (like using the LED display colors) or you use ID scan. The ID, as far as I can tell, is only broadcasted in the control channel.
When I want to to a quick test, I just creat a new system and set it to ID Search with no TGID's entered. RACOM is a massively large (132 counties), as such ID Search is the only practical way to handle it. I have found that in some cases, the 396XT is actually more responsive with no TGID entered using ID Search then when they are entered and using ID Scan.
Both the TGID and unit ID are there on conventional channels, that's why you can see them both when you lie to the scanner and pretend it's a trunked system.
Yes, it's impractical to watch them with the current firmware. Perhaps it would help, rather than merely complaining, if we had a concensus for HOW to select this feature and WHAT the display should look like.
Option at [scanner/system/group/channel] level?
One control option for both user and group, or two options, or one option with four settings?
Show each ID in place of [name/freq/nac/...]?
Show full time or alternating with existing display items?
Yes, it's impractical to watch them with the current firmware. Perhaps it would help, rather than merely complaining, if we had a concensus for HOW to select this feature and WHAT the display should look like.
Option at [scanner/system/group/channel] level?
One control option for both user and group, or two options, or one option with four settings?
Show each ID in place of [name/freq/nac/...]?
Show full time or alternating with existing display items?
Dewey
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All of your posts are referring to talkgroup IDs. The OP is asking about radio IDs
Dewey
Thank you Dewey: The original question has nothing to do with trunked systems at all. It’s using the trunked setting to trick the scanner into displaying the astro ID on a conventional system.
garys is correct, I mistyped and each conventional channel needs to be entered as a site. Garys I have added the Radio ID's as "talkgroups and it also works well. It is important to note that since it is not actually a trunked system and there are no actual talkgroups the system needs to be in search and not scan.
Flashp: There are no complaints here. It was simply an innocuous question as to if there was a known reason other than the obvious "Uniden hasn’t developed it" why the radio is setup to decode ID's on trunked and not conventional P-25 systems.
garys is correct, I mistyped and each conventional channel needs to be entered as a site. Garys I have added the Radio ID's as "talkgroups and it also works well. It is important to note that since it is not actually a trunked system and there are no actual talkgroups the system needs to be in search and not scan.
Flashp: There are no complaints here. It was simply an innocuous question as to if there was a known reason other than the obvious "Uniden hasn’t developed it" why the radio is setup to decode ID's on trunked and not conventional P-25 systems.
Dewey
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I may be totally off base here, but...
I think since radio IDs came with a firmware update well after the XT's release, they may have been an after-thought, or just to keep up with GRE which was already doing radio IDs. If that is in fact the case, maybe it also has something to do with the reason they (radio IDs) are handled in the manner that they are.
As always, I resevere the right to be wrong, so I'll end like I started... I may be totally off base.
Take care,
Dewey
MarMatthias
Member
I've examined the P25 specs closely and I have not found any reference to a radio ID in the packet header. There is, however, the manufacturer ID and the algorithm ID. The following PDF goes through the entire P25 protocol and the actual packet headers step by step (its 104 pages long and very detailed):
http://www.p25.com/resources/P25TrainingGuide.pdf
It is possible the O.P. is not understanding the proper nomenclature of the P25 packet header and is referring to the Source ID. In which case, no radio on the market, as far as I've been able to find out, displays any of this information. The information would have to be fed into a computer and then displayed on a monitor. This is not so much as a limitation as its simply unneeded for the purposes of hearing the transmission. Having all this information may be nice, but it would drive the cost of the scanners sky high. A program or device at this level would be purely for diagnostics.
Dewey
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Easier to Read BCD396XT Digital Scanner Manual
Yes, everyone may have a right to your opinion, BUT, you don't help when your opinion is NOT right.
The spec calls it unit identification, and it is covered pretty thoroughly on page 31 of the linked document.
MarMatthias
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I tested this, but so far I have not gotten the UID from a p25 channel keyed in as a conventional frequency on the 396XT. I've only gotten the UID if the frequency is set up in a site which suggest that the UID is only sent on the control channel.
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As has been explained many times already, the UID is sent continuously as part of voice transmission on a conventional channel.
If you enter a conventional channel as a one frequency P25 trunked system, the XT will display UID's all without a control channel. I use it on several local P25 conventional systems none of which have a control channel.
I don't know why Uniden didn't allow this to happen on a regular conventional channel.
Most commercial radios will display UID's on P25 conventional channels.
No fancy computer running any software is necessary.
MarMatthias
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Don't know there... I just know my 396XT will not show the UID unless the frequency is set up in a trunked system as a part of the site. I used several ORION frequencies to test it.
This whole thread except for a couple of posts has been about P25 conventional frequencies.
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