The first PSN simulcast site’s are up and operating in Sydney Australia and what does it mean for me with a 536HP.

[RidingDownUnder]

G’day fellow enthusiasts,

this is the biggest communications upgrade since we went digital Down Under. It’s been in the planning since 2016 and expected to be finished 2027. The estimate was 400 million but no has blown out to 1.2 billion. ‘’You have got to laugh at our politician’’ SMH.

At least 9 PSN sites have combined frequencies and gone simulcast. And all 9 sites are within 7km’s in distance from each other, according to the ACMA (FCC equivalent.)

I use 2 UBCD536-PT (BCD536-HP) and the closest simulcast site to me is 1.5km’s and the next 6 sites are within 7 km’s to my location. Being so close to this site I can receive it without any antenna. Reason why I say this is because I’m getting NO distortion whatsoever. Is this because ’m so close to a simulcast site at 1.5km’s? Can someone let me know please.

Also to add fuel to fire most first responders on this PSN are going encrypted, yes ‘E’ that word and could your state be the next?

In another news clip it mention,

• Expediting measures to protect against the risk of cloning by unauthenticated radios.

Has any ‘’unauthenticated radios ever broken M encryption key?

This is just to let y’all know what’s happening behind the radio scenes and our State government at its finest.

Thanks,
Anthony.


See link for more information:

NSW public safety radio upgrade runs late, cost soars past $1.2 billion

Encryption hampers interoperability.

www.itnews.com.au

 

[lolbananalol2]

I would say as more and more sites go simulcast, The signals will become more distorted. You will probably need a USDS100 or SDS200E If you want to keep listening. Also, which services are and aren't going encrypted with the new expansion? That part greatly concerns me.

 

[RidingDownUnder]

I would say as more and more sites go simulcast, The signals will become more distorted. You will probably need a USDS100 or SDS200E If you want to keep listening. Also, which services are and aren't going encrypted with the new expansion? That part greatly concerns me.

Right now all simulcast sites are up and running, thats 9 all within 7km’s to me. I know it’s weird. Reason I think is in Sydney it’s like New Yor,k high risers everywhere and the government wants to make sure there’s no dead spots.

The emergency services that aren’t going encrypted on the PSN has not been published, but the ones that are like Ambulance, Fire and Rescue, State Emergency Services and Rural Fire Services are so they can directly ]communicate 1 on 1 with Law Enforcement which have been encrypted for over a decade via their radios and not have it relayed by their departments dispatch.

 

[RidingDownUnder]

I would say as more and more sites go simulcast, The signals will become more distorted. You will probably need a USDS100 or SDS200E If you want to keep listening. Also, which services are and aren't going encrypted with the new expansion? That part greatly concerns me.

I see your in Newcastle.

If you have P25 TRS capability and you are listening to the PSN, enter in a new site with control channels,
419.0125 and 419.5125 as these are the new simulcast frequencies for the PSN NSW wide and see how you go. I know it’s only 50% complete but see what happens.

 

[lolbananalol2]

I see your in Newcastle.

If you have P25 TRS capability and you are listening to the PSN, enter in a new site with control channels,
419.0125 and 419.5125 as these are the new simulcast frequencies for the PSN NSW wide and see how you go. I know it’s only 50% complete but see what happens.

I'm blind so it's a bit harder to get mine programmed. Is there somebody we can write to expto ress our opposition to the encryption of the other agencies?

 

[RidingDownUnder]

I'm blind so it's a bit harder to get mine programmed. Is there somebody we can write to expto ress our opposition to the encryption of the other agencies?

What type of scanner do you have?

When it comes to writing to some government to express our concerns, ha, I wouldn’t waste my time. There will still be government agencies we can listen too but not the ones That I have mentioned, like first responders.

One thing our government now and previous is that they take our national security very seriously.

 

[lolbananalol2]

What type of scanner do you have?

When it comes to writing to some government to express our concerns, ha, I wouldn’t waste my time. There will still be government agencies we can listen too but not the ones That I have mentioned, like first responders.

One thing our government now and previous is that they take our national security very seriously.

I have a Uniden USDS100 and a UBCD536PT. Why the hell would agencies like the RFS or SES need encryption anyway? That's just ridiculous.

 

[RidingDownUnder]

I’m not 100% sure, but I think if there was a major flood or fire then the SES and RFS can talk directly to law enforcement and not to have their dispatch to relay instructions to help clear out houses and block roads ect... Remember Cops have been encrypted for over a decade in NSW.

NSW public safety radio upgrade runs late, cost soars past $1.2 billion

Encryption hampers interoperability.

www.itnews.com.au

 

[lolbananalol2]

I’m not 100% sure, but I think if there was a major flood or fire then the SES and RFS can talk directly to law enforcement and not to have their dispatch to relay instructions to help clear out houses and block roads ect... Remember Cops have been encrypted for over a decade in NSW.

NSW public safety radio upgrade runs late, cost soars past $1.2 billion

Encryption hampers interoperability.

www.itnews.com.au

I'm painfully aware how long the cops have been encrypted. It's bad enough that they have it on full time, but it's completely unnecessary in my opinion. I swear sometimes they just sell it to twith no real consideration. Surely there haves to be a better way to go about it.hem

 

[VK3YMML]

Just some passing thoughts ...

Part of the situation are those who think its cool to transmit on Emergency Service Frequencies, this does not aid our hobby, if anything it makes it harder.

However with the ever developing radio hardware the rise of digital radio systems is inedible, hopefully scanners will follow suit though
there hasn't been a real scanner update/release for sometime.

A system like this is being implemented in Victoria however that is using the current P25 Phase 2 system. Police and Ambulance are fully encrypted however I believe the Fire Brigade remain un-encrypted which we hope continues.

 

[lolbananalol2]

Just some passing thoughts ...

Part of the situation are those who think its cool to transmit on Emergency Service Frequencies, this does not aid our hobby, if anything it makes it harder.

However with the ever developing radio hardware the rise of digital radio systems is inedible, hopefully scanners will follow suit though
there hasn't been a real scanner update/release for sometime.

A system like this is being implemented in Victoria however that is using the current P25 Phase 2 system. Police and Ambulance are fully encrypted however I believe the Fire Brigade remain un-encrypted which we hope continues.

Here's the thing though. The relevant authorities should try going after the idiots that transmit on emergency frequencies instead of just shutting out the public like that. Hopefully the fire brigade remain in the clear.

 

[VK3YMML]

Here's the thing though. The relevant authorities should try going after the idiots that transmit on emergency frequencies instead of just shutting out the public like that. Hopefully the fire brigade remain in the clear.

I am not sure if its a situation of man power, I do know that the ACMA was down in Warnambool for a period searching for this person

Warrnambool 'ham' jams ambulance network for 12 hours

Recently licensed amateur 'ham' radio operator, Samuel Crouch, 25, callsign VK3FST, has been accused of jamming Ambulance Victoria's (AV) radio dispatch system.

www.victoriannews.com.au

I cannot comment for other states however this discussion happens around the world. Maybe there will be a point when Emergency Services will be out of the range of our scanners, such as 4G PTT radio systems or GSM-R based Digital Train Radio System (DTRS) which our Metro Train network utilizes.

DMR and NXDN Networks can also run encryption ...its just a matter if they wish to switch it on

 

[Ubbe]

Part of the situation are those who think its cool to transmit on Emergency Service Frequencies, this does not aid our hobby, if anything it makes it harder.

That's probably the main reson going encryption. Our police in Sweden had an analog system using 5 and 11 sequential CCIR tone signalling and in Gothenburg they had some 10 channels in the system. During a big political meeting, including some world leaders, some protesters had setup a communication central in an apartment and had programmed radios for the police system and could send emergency calls.

The system where designed to then connect all channels together and freeze all signalling so any transmission would be heard on all channels. The procedure they must follow where then to check which patrol had sent an emergency and check if they where okay, and only then could the emergency be cleared down. When the protesters heard from their own people that they where going to start a riot they then started an emergency call and transmit music and repeated emergency calls that opened up all radios and forced them to listen to the music. The police had then problem to get the message out to send reinforcement to the place of the riot.

After a couple of days of this going on they finally managed to pinpoint the apartment and close down their communication central. After that our government granted 500 million USD for a new encrypted Tetra system.

/Ubbe

 

[lolbananalol2]

That's probably the main reson going encryption. Our police in Sweden had an analog system using 5 and 11 sequential CCIR tone signalling and in Gothenburg they had some 10 channels in the system. During a big political meeting, including some world leaders, some protesters had setup a communication central in an apartment and had programmed radios for the police system and could send emergency calls.

The system where designed to then connect all channels together and freeze all signalling so any transmission would be heard on all channels. The procedure they must follow where then to check which patrol had sent an emergency and check if they where okay, and only then could the emergency be cleared down. When the protesters heard from their own people that they where going to start a riot they then started an emergency call and transmit music and repeated emergency calls that opened up all radios and forced them to listen to the music. The police had then problem to get the message out to send reinforcement to the place of the riot.

After a couple of days of this going on they finally managed to pinpoint the apartment and close down their communication central. After that our government granted 500 million USD for a new encrypted Tetra system.

/Ubbe

Couldn't they have upgraded their system without using full time encryption? For a while I've been saying if they're in a certain situation where they think it might be needed then it's okay, but otherwise their channels should stay open.

 

[VicradioZone]

Here's the thing though. The relevant authorities should try going after the idiots that transmit on emergency frequencies instead of just shutting out the public like that. Hopefully the fire brigade remain in the clear.

Here's the 'other thing though', ever heard of the saying prevention is better than the cure?
Preventing the ability to do these things is being proactive and called risk mitigation.

It either can either lessen the impact if someone does gain access or the prevent the ability to have your system compromised in this first place thus removing the potential of having that 'one case' where the unthinkable might happen and someone dies because some goose couldn't help themselves and had to transmit and impede the system in a negative manner and those that needed it couldn't use the system.

Yes, they could've upgraded and secured the ability to access the system without encryption, but they may feel the amount of information being heard (and at times rebroadcast) or passed on via unofficial platforms was also another problem they wanted to remove. It's a shame, but it is what it is.

Apparently even the next Government user that is due to migrate to our MMR / RMR (finally!) in Victoria is going encrypted. They've been approved for access via the relevant entities & agencies that govern the system and have been radio shopping. Just have to wait for the migration to begin.

Also a side note, it's been over 20 years since the MMR was born, and from memory it was around 2006/7ish that the final UHF Legacy Analogue Network to P25 MMR patches were removed for Victoria Police meaning you could no longer listen. Incredible to think it would take their Victoria Police rural counterparts another 14 or so years to enjoy the same privacy and network security via the RMR.

Edit: Just in regards to the simulcast issues. Oddly enough I've never had an issue with them down here and some parts of the system on the MMR have been simulcast from multiple sites since the MMR was created, although admittedly it's usually only been 2-3 sites, with one going to 4 in recent years.

 

[VicradioZone]

I have a Uniden USDS100 and a UBCD536PT. Why the hell would agencies like the RFS or SES need encryption anyway? That's just ridiculous.

One of the concerns elements within Victoria Police have had before, and possibly even EMV, that being Emergency Management Victoria, is the amount of information that can be obtained via other agencies communications regarding their (the Police) involvement in said matters from time to time during 'wordbacks', sitreps, updates etc.

 

[lolbananalol2]

One of the concerns elements within Victoria Police have had before, and possibly even EMV, that being Emergency Management Victoria, is the amount of information that can be obtained via other agencies communications regarding their (the Police) involvement in said matters from time to time during 'wordbacks', sitreps, updates etc.

Surely they have bigger to worry about than that. Most of us mean no harm.

 

[RidingDownUnder]

Just some passing thoughts ...

Part of the situation are those who think its cool to transmit on Emergency Service Frequencies, this does not aid our hobby, if anything it makes it harder.

However with the ever developing radio hardware the rise of digital radio systems is inedible, hopefully scanners will follow suit though
there hasn't been a real scanner update/release for sometime.

A system like this is being implemented in Victoria however that is using the current P25 Phase 2 system. Police and Ambulance are fully encrypted however I believe the Fire Brigade remain un-encrypted which we hope continues.

Your spot on there.
1 of the reasons they expedited police encryption over a decade ago in NSW is because Middle Eastern thugs-drug dealers were transmitting on the police analog frequencies mainly on the Bankstown area frequency and calling out certain police officers and causing havoc. Not long after this Lakemba police station was riddled in bullets. I witnessed the transmissions back. Most of the Middle Eastern perpetrators are now doing life in jail or deceased. Google Danny Karam boys or DK Boys.

Look at this page it has information on the police station shootings and more.

Michael Kanaan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I can understand Ambulance going encrypted because in certain areas Ambulance officers are being attacked and need police assistance when attending certain jobs were 2 gangs have had a brawl.

And as you mentioned the advancement of first responders radio hardware from analog simplex, analog semi duplex or repeaters, voting, P25, P25 encryption, P25II TRS, P25II TRS encryption and now P25II TRS encryption simulcast.

 

[RidingDownUnder]

Delete message.

 

[RidingDownUnder]

One of the concerns elements within Victoria Police have had before, and possibly even EMV, that being Emergency Management Victoria, is the amount of information that can be obtained via other agencies communications regarding their (the Police) involvement in said matters from time to time during 'wordbacks', sitreps, updates etc.

In relation to our Ambulance and Fire Rescue Services is they have MDT or mobile data terminals installed in their vehicles. All jobs, addresses and personal information are dispatched this way so NO private information is transmitted via the air waves. They mainly use radios to acknowledge a job, let dispatch know when their back on from a job or not available, plus radio the hospital there taking a patient to with information on vital signs and symptoms plus reason why patient is arriving at the hospital so if it’s a emergency situation the Doctors can be ready at time of arrival. So no important information can be obtained by anyone only those who have access to the departments MDT.