Tone Queston

[Chaos703]

Unless otherwise indicated, does a repeater's input freq use the same tone as its output freq? Or do inputs not use tones?

 

[KX5MOT]

Most commercial and some ham repeaters require a tone on the input but some ham repeaters don't. Most of the time they are the same on input and output, very rarely have i seen any repeater use a split tone.

 

[n5bew1]

deleted because of duplicate response.

 

[Chaos703]

Very helpful. Thank you. But I should have been a bit more specific with my question.

When using the database for this site for programing, is it safe to assume that I should always enter the tone on both the "frequency" and "input"?

 

[2112]

Very helpful. Thank you. But I should have been a bit more specific with my question.

When using the database for this site for programing, is it safe to assume that I should always enter the tone on both the "frequency" and "input"?

You generally would program only the frequency listed under in the "Frequency" column, as this represents the output of the repeater, and thus, provides the strongest signal. If you must listen to the repeater input for some reason, it is usually safe to assume that you would program the same tone.

 

[JASII]

I am nowhere near Oklahoma, but there are some split tone repeaters here in both amateur and public safety applications. In fact one fire repeater near hear uses a split DPL configuration.

 

[KD5WLX]

In general, with amateur repeaters, the use of a tone is to prevent interference from distant repeaters keying them up when the band opens. Thus the only requirement is to put the tone on the transmit freq - no tone is required AT ALL to receive on their output, and the only reason to ever monitor the input freq would be if you were fox-hunting an interference source. Hams sometimes put a decode on the output on their receivers, but that is only to avoid occasionally hearing the "static" when a band opening starts bringing weak signals in to the area.

This is generally the opposite of what public safety repeaters use PLs for - in those situations, multiple users (agencies) are sharing a frequency on a SINGLE repeater, and have the output send different tones per agency, so their receivers can decode the PL and only break squelch for the desired agency. Again, only the repeater needs either the input freq or input PL, you need the repeater OUTPUT freq and the PL of the agency you want to monitor.

Also note that with amateur repeaters, many require the PL to key them up, but DON'T retransmit it - if you set PL encode and decode, you never hear them, because they require the tone to acknowledge YOU, they don't send it back TO you.

In the Tulsa area I know of several amateur repeaters that have different receive and retransmit PLs (the 146.88 remote recievers is one), and several more that require PL but don't retransmit it (the 147.345 machine and the 444.85, both owned by the American Airlines club).

 

[Chaos703]

You generally would program only the frequency listed under in the "Frequency" column, as this represents the output of the repeater, and thus, provides the strongest signal. If you must listen to the repeater input for some reason, it is usually safe to assume that you would program the same tone.

I've always just programmed in the outputs, but there are few SO's with terrible deadspots their repeater don't reach. So for those counties, I thought I might go ahead and add the inputs in the event a unit is broadcasting from a better possition to me than the repeater.

All these replys have been very helpful. "All ya'll" is what makes this such a great site! Thanks.

 

[CommShrek]

In general, with amateur repeaters, the use of a tone is to prevent interference from distant repeaters keying them up when the band opens. Thus the only requirement is to put the tone on the transmit freq - no tone is required AT ALL to receive on their output, and the only reason to ever monitor the input freq would be if you were fox-hunting an interference source. Hams sometimes put a decode on the output on their receivers, but that is only to avoid occasionally hearing the "static" when a band opening starts bringing weak signals in to the area..................<snipped to save bandwidth>

Jay that was a very good post.

I wish someone (hint, hint) would write up some kind of small flyer or faxable sheet that I could either email, fax, or snail mail to all of these agencies that I talk to every day. It could explain what a PL tone and DCS tone is, and why themselves and other agencies that would help them might also need to know. I can count on one hand how many times that someone (police, fire, or EMS agency) has actually known what a PL is when I've asked them if there was a PL that I needed to know of in order to talk to them on the radio.

I use the RR database to find out the questions to these answers sometimes. Sometimes, it's faster and more accurate than the people you are asking.

 

[KD5WLX]

2B,

I know what you mean. It drives me nuts with the church radios (460MHz business band - leased on shared freqs). There are other "customers" of the radio supplier that use the same freqs but different PLs. Since they're mostly weekday users, and we're mostly night and weekend, it's rare that a conflict occurs. But there is one agency (a towing company) that runs 24x7 on the same freq as our Ushers. And no one knows that if you don't hit the "mon" button (and thus hear them) that if the green light is blinking and you key up, no one hears you, OR the other guy, and since he doesn't know what it means, either, you'll both double AGAIN and still no one hears you, so you'll both......

They just don't understand that PL decode means (1) they aren't disturbed by transmissions from the other user but also (2) FM doesn't work if two users hit the repeater at once and (3) you MUST listen before you key up (or at least look for the "busy" light).

And of course, no one at the church or the tow company would have ANY clue what freqs they were using, let alone PLs - you'd have to get those from someone who "snooped" them or from the company that leases the radios to us.

 

[iamhere300]

Why would ushers at a church need repeater service????

2B,

I know what you mean. It drives me nuts with the church radios (460MHz business band - leased on shared freqs). There are other "customers" of the radio supplier that use the same freqs but different PLs. Since they're mostly weekday users, and we're mostly night and weekend, it's rare that a conflict occurs. But there is one agency (a towing company) that runs 24x7 on the same freq as our Ushers. And no one knows that if you don't hit the "mon" button (and thus hear them) that if the green light is blinking and you key up, no one hears you, OR the other guy, and since he doesn't know what it means, either, you'll both double AGAIN and still no one hears you, so you'll both......

They just don't understand that PL decode means (1) they aren't disturbed by transmissions from the other user but also (2) FM doesn't work if two users hit the repeater at once and (3) you MUST listen before you key up (or at least look for the "busy" light).

And of course, no one at the church or the tow company would have ANY clue what freqs they were using, let alone PLs - you'd have to get those from someone who "snooped" them or from the company that leases the radios to us.

 

[KD5WLX]

You'd have to know the church - that freq is also used by security. The building is >100,000 sq. ft. and because of multiple additions and a metal skin, there are a number dead spots if you try to do HT to HT simplex.

The repeater is actually on the ROOF of the building itself.