Toronto Public Safety.

[newtoscanning]

Hello, I was wondering if I can use an xts (2500 or 5000) to monitor the toronto public safety sytem. I was told that they will sometimes communicate with the actual system on startup even if they are only programmed for rx.

Is this true and is there any way around this?

Thanks

p.s. I know the xts isn't the only monitoring option but I kinda want one. (yes I know there REALLY expensive)

 

[mikewazowski]

Yes, if your expensive radio ever communicates with the system and somebody catches it, you could end up with a very expensive paperweight.

 

[exkalibur]

But a good looking one however

 

[newtoscanning]

no reply

So is there a way then to make the radio rx only regardless, or do all portables tx on start up?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[exkalibur]

You can program it to not auto affiliate (depending on the radio - some require affiliation in order to work), but that doesn't solve the problem that the radio will still respond to system queries. For example... if the system spits out affiliation requests and your Radio ID happens to be one of them - it will respond to the system with the talkgroup it's currently on. Now this isn't always a problem, but you run the risk of a careful system administrator seeing your radio on a talkgroup it shouldn't be on. If that happens, the radio can be inhibited, which as Mike said, will make it a paperweight. The only ways to un-inhibit your radio is to have the system administrator send an uninhibit command (which is next to impossible to have done if your radio isn't authorized on the system), or send it to Motorola - but they'd have some questions you probably don't want to be asked.

 

[phyberoptics]

You can program it to not auto affiliate (depending on the radio - some require affiliation in order to work), but that doesn't solve the problem that the radio will still respond to system queries. For example... if the system spits out affiliation requests and your Radio ID happens to be one of them - it will respond to the system with the talkgroup it's currently on. Now this isn't always a problem, but you run the risk of a careful system administrator seeing your radio on a talkgroup it shouldn't be on. If that happens, the radio can be inhibited, which as Mike said, will make it a paperweight. The only ways to un-inhibit your radio is to have the system administrator send an uninhibit command (which is next to impossible to have done if your radio isn't authorized on the system), or send it to Motorola - but they'd have some questions you probably don't want to be asked.

This is why we physically cut the tx wire in mobile radios at the shop I work at (if the radio is being used as a "scanner".

 

[exkalibur]

Physically cutting the TX wire is one way to do it.

But.

Keep in mind...coverage of the TPS system is so good that you can usually pick up at least one tower without an antenna, pretty much anywhere in the city. As long as you're close to one of the 16 or so sites, even with no antenna (basically what you get when you cut the wire), you still stand a decent chance at TXing back to the system.

I've seen TPS officers using the public safety speakermic with the antenna on the mic before - but with no antenna - and they can talk on the system usually without any difficulty.

The best way would be to tinker around in the tuning values and set TX output power to Zero, and soldering a 50ohm resister across the TX antenna lead going into the PA. I've seen that done on a Maxtrac before...and with a spectrum analyzer, output power is so low it's not detectable 5 feet away from the radio.

 

[mikewazowski]

Keep in mind that in recent firmware, a Motorola radio will not let you receive the system without affiliating first.

 

[exkalibur]

I already covered that in Post #5

 

[newtoscanning]

Thanks

Sweet tips, I'll keep this in mind, and probably hold off on the radio until i get a little more experiance. I like paper weights, they look good but not ones that cost a few hundread bucks or more!

 

[wyldman]

An MTX8000 would work just fine,and can be set up to not affiliate.

 

[newtoscanning]

Sweet Deal

Hey, and they're like a 1/3 of the cost. Thanks!

 

[Jay911]

Something that hasn't been touched on yet is that while a radio might look 'cool' and provide better sound quality than a scanner, most radios will not scan more than 16 'channels' at once, period. Professional radios are really not designed to be scanners and don't do the job very well.

 

[Muxlow]

With my MRK2 its impossible to follow everything that i can on a scanner.
Can only search one edacs site group at one time. Have to keep switching it to hear other things
Scanner id say is much better... Its worth the worse sound

 

[slicerwizard]

The only ways to un-inhibit your radio is to have the system administrator send an uninhibit command (which is next to impossible to have done if your radio isn't authorized on the system), or send it to Motorola - but they'd have some questions you probably don't want to be asked.

Bah - I'd just generate artificial control channel audio and dump it through a sound card into the flat audio input on an 800 MHz mobile radio. If it's TXing on one of the control channel frequencies programmed into the brick, it's uninhibit time. While knowing the radio ID being used by the brick would be nice, I could just transmit uninhibits for all 65534 ID's - I can think of worse ways to kill 50 minutes.

 

[exkalibur]

With my MRK2 its impossible to follow everything that i can on a scanner.
Can only search one edacs site group at one time. Have to keep switching it to hear other things
Scanner id say is much better... Its worth the worse sound

Well, in the Toronto area that's not a concern, as there are very few systems to begin with.

My MPA can scan as many channels as I can cram into it. I have a zone with 40 or so talkgroups for Halton - I can scan all those 40 talkgroups across all 3 sites. Your MRK can do that as well.