Trouble listening to local police and fire...

[TR3812]

Hey guys, I have a Uniden BCD436HP, and I have programmed it using Sentinel software. I am located in Cottage Grove, WI. I am trying to listen to the PD and FD, which I should be able to easily listen to, given my elevation on a hill, and that I am listening to Madison Police Department effortlessly. When I scan on only Cottage Grove's police and fire, (digital, not analog), it just sits and says "simulcast" for hours on end. I have tried what I believe to be everything in my power, and I have programmed in "DANECOM", which has everything in the county in the system. Do I have to program in a talk group? I am at my wits end. As you can see, I have Cottage Grove as my favorites list, then DaneCom programmed in, followed by the CGPD and CGFD behind that. Is that right? See attached files. I DO have all of the service types enabled, so I
SHOULD be able to listen to these TGID's???!

 

[ve1sef]

From other posts I've read. I believe Simulcast systems pose a problem for most scanners. Don't have any in ,my area.
If you go online and look up "The Scanner Guys". They have a website and a Youtube channel.
They did a podcast on Simulcast systems, that you may find it useful.

 

[fredva]

I don't know for sure that this is your problem, but the 436HP is an older model that doesn't always perform well on simulcast systems. It's less expensive than the latest models (the SDS-100/200), but its hardware wasn't designed to be fully compatible with P25 digital simulcast like the SDS series.

 

[djeplett]

Make sure you have the service types turned on that those talkgroups are programmed for. Also, I'm up in Waupaca County so I don't know how Cottage Grove handles their dispatching, but just because they have talkgroups assigned to them does not mean they are regularly using them. They may be dispatched on the county sheriff talkgroups.

You would be much better off getting this post moved to the Wisconsin forum. Click on the "report" button and ask for it to be moved.

 

[tvengr]

I have programmed in "DANECOM", which has everything in the county in the system. Do I have to program in a talk group?

If in ID Scan, the radio will receive only the talkgroups you have programmed. If in ID Search, every talkgroup in the system is received. Press Func and then E to toggle between ID Search and ID Scan. If you attach a hpe favorites list file, I will check it for problems. In Sentinel, go to the File tab and Export to hpe file (Favorites List). You will need to right click on the exported file and Send to Compressed (zipped) folder to be able to attach it. Click on Attach files and Open the zipped folder.

 

[hiegtx]

Hey guys, I have a Uniden BCD436HP, and I have programmed it using Sentinel software. I am located in Cottage Grove, WI. I am trying to listen to the PD and FD, which I should be able to easily listen to, given my elevation on a hill, and that I am listening to Madison Police Department effortlessly. When I scan on only Cottage Grove's police and fire, (digital, not analog), it just sits and says "simulcast" for hours on end. I have tried what I believe to be everything in my power, and I have programmed in "DANECOM", which has everything in the county in the system. Do I have to program in a talk group? I am at my wits end. As you can see, I have Cottage Grove as my favorites list, then DaneCom programmed in, followed by the CGPD and CGFD behind that. Is that right? See attached files. I DO have all of the service types enabled, so I
SHOULD be able to listen to these TGID's???!

View attachment 112159

Definitely need some additional details here.

It appears that both Madison, as well as Cottage Grove, have talkgroups on the same system:

DaneCom Trunking System, Madison, Wisconsin

DaneCom Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

However, the Madison TGIDs are in a department labeled as ISSI talkgroups, presumably referring to their being patched from a different system. I see a separate system actually listed under Madison on the county's database page.

Madison Public Safety Trunking System, Madison, Wisconsin

Madison Public Safety Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

Looking at the site details for Madison's system, the page does not list a license, so the map would not show locations if the site is actually simulcast. However, in checking the site frequencies with licenses in your county, I find this license:

FCC Callsign WNXW548 (MADISON, CITY OF)

FCC Callsign WNXW548 (MADISON, CITY OF)

www.radioreference.com

The map for that license appears to show it is actually simulcast:

You say that you have no trouble listening to Madison.
While it does appear to be simulcast, the tower site indicated by the 4 on the map is relatively close to you in Cottage Grove. Simulcast issues are extremely location specific. It's possible that you may be getting a strong enough signal from that one tower to drown out the out of sync signals from the others, and thus you can hear Madison.

For Cottage Grove, on the Dane County system, you have a much different situation. Look at the map for the Dane County system's simulcast site:

Compared to Madison's system, the Dane system has a literal forest of tower locations, at varying distances from you. That can hammer your scanner with conflicting out of sync signals, making it impossible for your 436HP to correctly decode the control channel & allow you to listen.

Since the screenshot of the Favorites list you provided only shows a limited Dane County system, with only the Cottage Grove talkgroups. you apparently using a separate list for Madison/ Nothing wrong with doing that, but it does make it harder to see what changes might be helpful to make.

As Jim has already suggested, attach your list for Cottage Grove. I would also suggest that you provide the list that includes Madison. You'll have to export them individually, you can select both of them at the same time, them 'send' both to the same compressed file which can then be attached to a post.

More details on Simulcast can be found in the Wiki:
Simulcast digital distortion - The RadioReference Wiki

 

[tvengr]

However, the Madison TGIDs are in a department labeled as ISSI talkgroups, presumably referring to their being patched from a different system. I see a separate system actually listed under Madison on the county's database page.

Thanks for catching the second system!

 

[wtp]

1 (1)	001 (1)	Deerfield	Dane	139.9125c	151.070	152.1125a	152.5175a	152.6525a	155.355
1 (1)	078 (4E)	Madison VH	Dane	150.890	151.295a	152.7125c	152.840a	153.185	153.395
1 (1)	210 (D2)	DOC Oakhill	Dane	773.08125c	773.33125c	774.28125c	774.53125c	774.78125c
1 (1)	221 (DD)	DHS Madison Mendota	Dane	856.1375	856.9375	858.9375a	859.9375c
1 (1)	244 (F4)	Madison 800	Dane	851.475c	851.925a	852.425	853.3625

 

[TR3812]

Thank you everyone for the replies. I’m leaning toward returning the 436 and getting the SDS100 for simulcast. Thoughts?

 

[djeplett]

Thank you everyone for the replies. I’m leaning toward returning the 436 and getting the SDS100 for simulcast. Thoughts?

If you monitor a bunch of conventional stuff I would keep the 436 for that. But if you only will monitor the simulcast stuff you will be happier with the SDS.

 

[wtp]

there is always room and use for more radios...

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

Thank you everyone for the replies. I’m leaning toward returning the 436 and getting the SDS100 for simulcast. Thoughts?

Yes, do it. Having done this personally to monitor simulcast systems in my area this was a decision I certainly didn't regret

 

[TR3812]

Definitely need some additional details here.

It appears that both Madison, as well as Cottage Grove, have talkgroups on the same system:

DaneCom Trunking System, Madison, Wisconsin

DaneCom Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

However, the Madison TGIDs are in a department labeled as ISSI talkgroups, presumably referring to their being patched from a different system. I see a separate system actually listed under Madison on the county's database page.

Madison Public Safety Trunking System, Madison, Wisconsin

Madison Public Safety Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

Looking at the site details for Madison's system, the page does not list a license, so the map would not show locations if the site is actually simulcast. However, in checking the site frequencies with licenses in your county, I find this license:

FCC Callsign WNXW548 (MADISON, CITY OF)

FCC Callsign WNXW548 (MADISON, CITY OF)

www.radioreference.com

The map for that license appears to show it is actually simulcast:
View attachment 112181
You say that you have no trouble listening to Madison.
While it does appear to be simulcast, the tower site indicated by the 4 on the map is relatively close to you in Cottage Grove. Simulcast issues are extremely location specific. It's possible that you may be getting a strong enough signal from that one tower to drown out the out of sync signals from the others, and thus you can hear Madison.

For Cottage Grove, on the Dane County system, you have a much different situation. Look at the map for the Dane County system's simulcast site:
View attachment 112182
Compared to Madison's system, the Dane system has a literal forest of tower locations, at varying distances from you. That can hammer your scanner with conflicting out of sync signals, making it impossible for your 436HP to correctly decode the control channel & allow you to listen.

Since the screenshot of the Favorites list you provided only shows a limited Dane County system, with only the Cottage Grove talkgroups. you apparently using a separate list for Madison/ Nothing wrong with doing that, but it does make it harder to see what changes might be helpful to make.

As Jim has already suggested, attach your list for Cottage Grove. I would also suggest that you provide the list that includes Madison. You'll have to export them individually, you can select both of them at the same time, them 'send' both to the same compressed file which can then be attached to a post.

More details on Simulcast can be found in the Wiki:
Simulcast digital distortion - The RadioReference Wiki

Will an SDS100 be able to decode and read these signals better? I am just hoping to hear Cottage Grove, everything else will be a plus.

 

[hiegtx]

Will an SDS100 be able to decode and read these signals better? I am just hoping to hear Cottage Grove, everything else will be a plus.

If Simulcast is your issue, as I suspect is the case for Cottage Grove, then the SDS100 is better able to deal with simulcast than is the 436HP or other models.

Look at the map I posted above. For the Dane County system, you are surrounded by simulcast sites, in different directions, and at varying directions. There is a slim chance that if you used a yagi, aimed at the site near Sun Prairie, you might be able to deal with simulcast on the Dane system. But using a directional antenna, aimed only at that single site, you're going to negatively impact your reception from other systems, such as Madison.

I think that for reliable reception, of the various agencies in your county, the SDS100 is your best option.

 

[TR3812]

If Simulcast is your issue, as I suspect is the case for Cottage Grove, then the SDS100 is better able to deal with simulcast than is the 436HP or other models.

Look at the map I posted above. For the Dane County system, you are surrounded by simulcast sites, in different directions, and at varying directions. There is a slim chance that if you used a yagi, aimed at the site near Sun Prairie, you might be able to deal with simulcast on the Dane system. But using a directional antenna, aimed only at that single site, you're going to negatively impact your reception from other systems, such as Madison.

I think that for reliable reception, of the various agencies in your county, the SDS100 is your best option.

Thank you for your help and for your input. It’s greatly appreciated.