Utah County Trunker

[Rolfman]

Well I finally got my BC898T and installed a tap myself, which I was suprised how easy it was. Decided to bring it down here to Utah County @ work and run it for the day. (Utah County Site 4 867.6625) Only been about an hour and already I have several TGID's the database does not have. Of the most interest are a 32032,38592,58944, & 65536 since there is nothing even close to those in the database. Will keep everyone posted.


Update:
Well it seems I can not save any of the data I am collecting on this computer, Adminstrator issues. Rather dissappointing to say the least. Also now way I can cut and paste it out either.

 

[qlajlu]

I hope you can make the get together at WVC Park on the 18th. If you can, would you bring your scanner with you because I want to see this Tap you put it. I want to know how difficult it is.

 

[Rolfman]

Sure thing.

Was actually feeling pretty good about my "handy work" after I got it installed and it worked. Just got the voice following features on Trunker running last night, just hadn't had the time. Now that's the way a trunking scanner should work! Can not believe that someone has not made one that will do that.

 

[kf7yn]

TG 38592 is Utah State building maintenance, probably DFCM and in Utah County
TG 58944 is LifeFlight, digital and encrypted. Word on the street is LifeFlight wanted encryption because of issues with AirMed. No idea if that's true but it makes for interesting gossip.

No idea on the other ones you listed.

 

[SkipSanders]

65536 is usually an 'administrative' (aka, GOD) group, which is not actually on air, it's something the controller uses internally. You'll sometimes see group 0, too. Be aware the program makes errors sometimes in reading data. You'll get the occasional 'hit' on a talkgroup that never shows any use... it's just a data glitch.

Medical groups will probably wish encryption due to the very harsh penalties involved in releasing personally identifiable medical data.

 

[enosjones]

TG 38592 is Utah State building maintenance, probably DFCM and in Utah County
TG 58944 is LifeFlight, digital and encrypted. Word on the street is LifeFlight wanted encryption because of issues with AirMed. No idea if that's true but it makes for interesting gossip.

No idea on the other ones you listed.

Ok if 58944 is LifeFlight digital Encryption what would that make 58880, AirMed? And can You decode or Hear the Encrypted stuff? or are we just out of luck on that one? I have A 396T Scanner.

 

[enosjones]

Unknown TGID's From the Ford Ridge 38 Site

I have some Unknown Tgid's as well that ain't listed 28032, 58880,38624, and 42688. These ones im not sure what they are if you have info it would help alot.

Thanks

 

[bneilson]

And can You decode or Hear the Encrypted stuff?

You can decode digital but it requires a capable scanner to do it.

Encryption on the other hand, the answer is no. Doing so will land you in the slammer if you are caught...

 

[kf7yn]

TG 58880 is also LifeFlight, maybe a secondary channel or one for SL County and the other for Utah County, something like that.

 

[Rolfman]

I would bet 58880 it is their Operations channel then. I got a ton of hits over the weekend off Nelson Peak and also a bunch off Utah County site.

It would be nice to have a place where we can list these new/unidentified TGID's.

I have kind of assumed that if there was only 1 hit it was a possible "Non Hit" some of these I have moderatly active hit counts.


1506hrs:
Just totaling up things for the day. In 7 hours I have had 31 1 hit Unknown TGID's. 16 Multi hit TGID's, as high as 76 and 82. I plan to add the multi hits and try to ID them in due time.

 

[kf7yn]

Okay folks I think I goofed about who is using 58880 and 58944. Early on I saw some radio IDs that I thought belonged to LifeFlight but looking through that block of radio IDs in my Trunker file, almost all are ? question marks. Talking to someone who knows LifeFlight, they say they are not using encryped radios, the original posting may have been misinformation or disinformation. Sooooo, with some egg on my face I'll have to say I do not know who uses TG 58880 and 58944. Sorry for the confusion. If I can find anything out, I'll be sure to post it.

Thanks

 

[qlajlu]

Bad entry -- maybe

Thanks, kf7yn, for letting us know. I'm not sure anyone would have caught that. Your post, for some reason, prompted me to read this entire thread and I believe I have found a mistake in the RR Database list of TGIDs.

I have some Unknown Tgid's as well that ain't listed 28032, 58880,38624, and 42688. These ones im not sure what they are if you have info it would help alot.

TGID 42688 lies at the end of a block of TGIDs issued to UDOT. In fact, it would be the next number up from the last one listed in the present known TGIDs published in the current list. enosjones, if you would monitor this TG for a while, I think you will find it is a UDOT Maintenance Shed. I'm thinking it is the shed from the Duchesne area that maintains Indian Canyon and it probably could be heard in Price when they were working on the road south of the summit or it could be out of Price or the immediate vicinity. I base that prediction by looking at the TGIDs just above that one.

Now The Bad TGID

We determined, or rather Rolfman pointed out once, that all the TGIDs are in steps of 32 (divisible by 32) and gldavis confirmed that in another thread. If you look at the current list in the RR Database you will see a block of TGIDs starting with 42304 and progressing by steps of 32 up to and including 42656 with the exception of 42597 (Listed as Region 3 Central). I believe this is a bad entry.

UDOT's Region 3 covers Juab, Utah, Wasatch, Duchesne, Uintah and Daggett counties so I don't know if Rolfman could confirm this one or not since he is in Utah County every day. It might be one of the outlying counties, but either way it does not conform to the informal "divisible by 32 rule" that we have established and it is the only one I have seen that ends in an odd digit.

[Question: Is it possible that this TGID was picked up as a harmonic and misidentified? I have no idea how that might work or if something like that would explain it.]

 

[Rolfman]

On TGID 42688 I have not recorded any hit on Trunker off Nelson Peak or Utah County. I qualify that statement by saying I have not run the program 24/7 either. I may be missing it when I do have it on or it might be using another site.

The "High Hit Count" TGID's I have listed as unknows are:
The comments in ( ) are only guesses not based on anything solid. And by "High Hit" that is usually 30+

4120 (Right at the end of Salt Lake County's block)

19648 & 20192 (Both right around UDOT blocks & hit counts are about the same)

22912 (End of West Valley block right before UTA)

28352, 28384, 28416 (Just after Life Flight and I have not heard Life Flight in a while only Air Med. Someone thought they went digital then there was a possible retarction of that. )

A block from 38432-38656 in multipuls of 32. (Thought someone figured out this was where DFCM hangs out)

40352 & 40512 (Both in Tooele County's block. I'll bet one is Emergency Management the other might be SAR)

I have 7 more that are in Utah County's block and one in Wasatch County's block.


Now I'm off to mow my yard. Might get these programed into a system tomorrow and start working on them.

 

[enosjones]

The reason I was wondering about the 58880 and the 58944 was because when the mine stuff was going on these TGid's especially the 58880 was very active and seemed when lifeflight was waiting for air traffic to move is when it was the most active the original TGid for lifeflight hasn't been used hardly at all since 58880 has been used, also the region 3 may have been changed to 20576 this has been identified by the TGid itself when they are talking over it. 42688 is not a mistaked TGid as far as i can tell it has been used on more that one occasion i can verify that or i dont add it. As of yet The one UDOT channel could be anything such as Duchesne's or further north, Price dont have UDOT on ucan they use VHF Frequncies still off of Ford Ridge and Cedar Mountain Etc.

 

[Rolfman]

I am also getting a lot of hits on 58880, 58912, & 58944 all digital. When you mentioned them being possibly Life Flight it worked for me. Then there was a comment about them not being digital so that is the reason for my guess on those others.

I don't think 28352 is Life Flight. Just heard some guy say, "Open it up a little bit more Andy." Not your average avation talk.
0740hrs: Well it's one of the Jordan's. Which one owns Daybreak? Some of the PW or Parks & Rec guys. I am leaning towards PW Water Dept. Not sure if they own their water or are they part of one of the water conservation districts?

 

[qlajlu]

It would be nice to have a place where we can list these new/unidentified TGID's.

I agree. Let's just keep adding them here, to this thread, and contact the Mod to rename this thread. Each time someone posts to this thread it will bump it to the top of the forum. Right now we have unknown TGIDs scattered in at least six threads and it is impossible to keep track of them.

I wonder if Life Flight has gone digital. Those TGIDs listed in the 58000 series puts them in the digital block IIRC so we need to find someone with a digital scanner that can monitor them. Does gldavis have one? I wonder if he could catch them.

 

[bneilson]

...with the exception of 42597 (Listed as Region 3 Central). I believe this is a bad entry.

Well following the status bit logic with the base 32 spacing of TGs, this would actually belong to 42597 with a status bit of 5.

According to my records this would be a UDOT channel operating in Emergency Multi Group mode...

 

[gldavis]

So far I've gotten TG's 58080=P25e; 58096=P25; 58144=P25; 58272=P25; 58880=P25e. These are the only TG's I've actually heard, so far.

P25 means digital.
P25e means digital with voice inversion. (Audio is encrypted.)

Gary

 

[qlajlu]

Well following the status bit logic with the base 32 spacing of TGs, this would actually belong to 42597 with a status bit of 5.

According to my records this would be a UDOT channel operating in Emergency Multi Group mode...

Excuse me? That is the same number I was questioning. From an earlier discussion on status bits in another thread I thought I was getting a grasp on status bits, but now I am more confused than ever.

Would someone explain, in very, very simple terms for a very, very simple (minded) person (me) how you figure (the mathematics of) a status bit. Do status bits run higher or lower than the base number it is associated with? (I see that the Hex number for both 42597 and 42592 is listed as a33 in the Db.)

Another question I have is why would UDOT run in continuous emergency mode long enough to have the TGID picked up and listed in the Db? Actually, why would UDOT run in emergency mode at all?

I need to go back to school.

Someone help me...please!

 

[gldavis]

Motorola Type 2 systems use a Base 16 Dec numbering system. Status bits are set Dec, not Hex.
Example: TG 10531 would be Layton PD (10528), tied to a second talkgroup (+3). For the most part, so far, UCAN is skipping every other possible TG, thereby showing a 32 difference between TG's. When they start running out of TG's they can start using the 16's.
I hope this helps.

As for the emergency mode, over the years I've monitored systems in four different states, and have found that the actual use of the status bits seems to be whatever the programmers want them to be. Anouther example of what should be, vrs, what actually is.
Gary
Dec ID + # Usage
-------------------------------------------------------
ID+0 Normal Talkgroup
ID+1 All Talkgroup
ID+2 Emergency
ID+3 Talkgroup patch to another
ID+4 Emergency Patch
ID+5 Emergency multi-group
ID+6 Not assigned
ID+7 Multi-select (initiated by dispatcher)
ID+8 DES Encryption talkgroup
ID+9 DES All Talkgroup
ID+10 DES Emergency
ID+11 DES Talkgroup patch
ID+12 DES Emergency Patch
ID+13 DES Emergency multi-group
ID+14 Not assigned
ID+15 Multi-select DES TG