UtahRadio.org and RR Wiki

[KD7DDC]

Hey all, I know many of you are familiar with utahradio.org and have been contributors for many years. I just noticed the following announcement on the main page:

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT (13 MAR 2021)
The Utah Communications Agency Network (UCAN) and the Utah Communications Authority (UCA) will be decommissioning the current 800Mhz Motorola trunking system by the end of 2023. UCAN is the main Public Safety trunked system used throughout the state of Utah and is one of the largest systems in the nation. Over 100 Motorola Trunking sites will be shut down and replaced with an all-digital P25 system using 700Mhz. It will impact all Utah public safety and services agencies. After the change, a large body of the information on this site will be out of date.

THIS SITE WILL BE GOING AWAY AFTER THE TRANSITION IS COMPLETE (Q1 2024).

Your scanner or radios must support P25 digital and will need to be reprogrammed to continue to hear anything on the new system. The community isn't sure how much of the traffic will be encrypted after the switch. If regular channels are encrypted, it will become illegal to attempt to monitor that traffic. We can only hope that if the UCA chooses to do this, they will offer time-delayed or filtered streams of radio transmissions to the public. The public has a special interest in monitoring the activity and operations of public safety agencies. Recent documented abuses by law enforcement officers who have covered up activities or mistakes by abusing laws originally meant to protect victims are a prime example.

Please copy any information you want or need from this site prior to December, 2022. For additional details see the RadioReference Utah forum. An effort is underway to save some content on the RadioReference Utah wiki: Utah (US) - The RadioReference Wiki.

73 de N2OW,

-Ryan

We have a lot of work to do as the RR wiki is a bit bare and disorganized. I suggest we start working on a plan and start getting vital information moved over.

 

[gldavis]

interesting.

 

[pmstewart]

I agree information we are currently getting on the new system is disorganized - but so is information on the current system - including recent requests for a common list of abbreviations. The other problem is RR is not necessarily the place to post about sensitive information listeners may have obtained currently being shared in private chats. Because so much over the air information has been removed to other places - computer aided dispactch (laptops), apps, cell phones, etc - it is my opinion encryption may be the least of our worries. As our country moves forward limiting the amount of information which can be shared without violating rules like hippa will make it harder even if full access to all communications is allowed.

Keeping a place for just UCA and other Utah based communications and how to program them is a good idea. It will take someone who wants to spearhead the project and commit to many years and hours maintaining it. I for one don't possess such a commitment. Any volunteers?

 

[gldavis]

I have the interest and time, but I do not have the skills that will be needed. I do wear a "Nerd" t-shirt, but my nerdiness isn't with computers.

 

[N7OLQ]

Maybe shared google docs to coordinate? I think the main issue is that it is being deployed in low population areas, so not many people to monitor & log.
(Congrats Gary on the 8600. Its an amazing radio. Love mine.)

 

[ecps92]

Why not the RR Wiki ?? That way more visability

Signed - Only a Tourist

Maybe shared google docs to coordinate? I think the main issue is that it is being deployed in low population areas, so not many people to monitor & log.
(Congrats Gary on the 8600. Its an amazing radio. Love mine.)

 

[KD7DDC]

Maybe shared google docs to coordinate? I think the main issue is that it is being deployed in low population areas, so not many people to monitor & log.
(Congrats Gary on the 8600. Its an amazing radio. Love mine.)

I like this idea. My main goal at this point is transferring the UtahRadio information over to the RR Wiki. We probably don't need to focus on the UCAN system since we will have to start over soon. We can get other things added though that likely won't be changing anytime soon. I can create an Airtable Db (similar to Google docs but Database, not just spreadsheet) and start identifying all of the pages in the UR wiki. from there we can pick pages to work on and move over. I can set it to show the status of the project.

 

[N7OLQ]

Why not the RR Wiki ?? That way more visability

Signed - Only a Tourist

A few reasons come to mind:

• When a group of us mapped out the statewide 800MHz SmartZone system, we wanted to protect the inside sources that were mapping agency radios, so we needed a private place to collaborate.
• We also wanted to avoid publishing sensitive talkgroups (special ops, vice, surveillance, etc.) that might go encrypted if agencies became aware that their Ops TGs were widely known. Utah uses very little encryption on their system currently, and while there are many forces pushing agencies to encrypt, we don't want to provide any extra motivation. Most TGs of the exiting system were added to RR DB when they were confirmed, but to this day, some sensitive talkgroups remain unpublished.
• I don't have much experience with the wiki, but poking around in the collaboration section, it isn't clear how to have 100's of simultaneous discussions regarding sites, zones, repeaters, and speculation on specific TG usage.

 

[ecps92]

All good points, just sharing my 2cents as a tourist

A few reasons come to mind:

• When a group of us mapped out the statewide 800MHz SmartZone system, we wanted to protect the inside sources that were mapping agency radios, so we needed a private place to collaborate.
• We also wanted to avoid publishing sensitive talkgroups (special ops, vice, surveillance, etc.) that might go encrypted if agencies became aware that their Ops TGs were widely known. Utah uses very little encryption on their system currently, and while there are many forces pushing agencies to encrypt, we don't want to provide any extra motivation. Most TGs of the exiting system were added to RR DB when they were confirmed, but to this day, some sensitive talkgroups remain unpublished.
• I don't have much experience with the wiki, but poking around in the collaboration section, it isn't clear how to have 100's of simultaneous discussions regarding sites, zones, repeaters, and speculation on specific TG usage.

 

[MtnBiker2005]

You can also use blogspot.com stuff/notes and make it available to Utah scanner members only.

 

[enosjones]

So is there a place to start putting the new system info in ? Can it be added to the same location as the current system? Right now all we have is the licenses for sites that are being setup by the state with Harris and UCA

 

[N7OLQ]

After looking at the RR wiki, I think a google sheet will be best. I created a sheet with no restrictions. Anyone with the link can access & edit. We will see how that goes...

UCA P25 System

docs.google.com

I created 2 tabs. 1 for sites & freqs, and 1 for talkgroups. There may be need to create a limited access talkgroup sheet, but probably not needed for now. I threw some column headers in, but I don't care too much if someone wants to come up with a better column naming structure.

 

[gldavis]

Looks like a good start. Thank-You. Now we wait for input.

 

[enosjones]

So do u want the stuff that is fcc granted in there as a potential possibility? There is a whole new bunch of pending or granted licenses for that p25 system

 

[enosjones]

Cuz I'm sure none are online, but plenty of fcc licenses are granted or pending.. is this something we can consider? It will have at least 120 sites

 

[N7OLQ]

Let's add a column for "live" or "heard" or "logged" and load the data from the FCC records and leave that column blank until it is confirmed live.

 

[ka3jjz]

Just a point here, in case it has gotten lost - any validated info should go into the database. The wiki can and should be used for researching unknowns and so forth. Anything you want to hold back because of sensitivity should not go into either source; rather putting it where it has restricted access (and maybe posting a link in the wiki with that notation) would work just fine. Mike

 

[N7OLQ]

The wiki format and usability is terrible. I couldn't in good conscience ask anyone to use it. When things are confirmed, they will get added to the main database.

 

[belvdr]

The wiki format and usability is terrible. I couldn't in good conscience ask anyone to use it. When things are confirmed, they will get added to the main database.

The database is for frequencies, site details, etc. Essentially, it is what is needed to listen to a system.

The wiki is for the additional details, such as Fire/EMS units, 10 codes, tones, etc. Therefore, depending on the data, it may need to go to the wiki.

 

[KD7DDC]

I love the idea of the shared google sheet for researching the new system as it comes online. I also agree with comments that once identified we should add information to the database. The main goal as far as UtahRadio.org and moving to the Wiki is the exact stuff Belvdr said:

The wiki is for the additional details, such as Fire/EMS units, 10 codes, tones, etc. Therefore, depending on the data, it may need to go to the wiki.

Not saying any part of the project is more important just that we need to get the stuff we already know that's on the website moved before it's killed and gone history. The new UCAN system will be an ongoing massive project over the next few years as it was leading up to 2002.