Viking VM8000

[incogneato]

Motorola didn't have a high power variant of the APX8500 out initially either. Also keep in mind, the APX8000 was announced roughly 18-24 months before the APX8500 was announced...just like what we've now seen with the VP8000 and VM8000.

Understood, but at the time that combination wasn't offered by anyone else.

 

[MTS2000des]

Wellsir, that's because you are a pimp.

As for all these folks that have to have LTE in their radios, well, why? Do you have drastic coverage deficiencies? Careful throwing that LTE stuff around, before you know it, we'll all be unemployed. Want to listen to the radio system at home, out of coverage? MOVE.

We have SmartConnect on our core because our sheriff pretty much demanded it. That being said, it's value is in leveraging in building WiFi in schools, versus some expensive, turd bucket BDA/DAS that often cost hundreds of thousands, don't work, and are a major PITA.

The problem with LTE/broadband and P25 is there is no standard for broadband integration yet. Both L3H and MSI have closed, proprietary broadband add-ons, that require proprietary back end services running, licensing fees, and proprietary subscribers. Reminds me of Smartnet/SmartZone vs. EDACS all over again, doesn't it?

 

[Project25_MASTR]

We have SmartConnect on our core because our sheriff pretty much demanded it. That being said, it's value is in leveraging in building WiFi in schools, versus some expensive, turd bucket BDA/DAS that often cost hundreds of thousands, don't work, and are a major PITA.

The problem with LTE/broadband and P25 is there is no standard for broadband integration yet. Both L3H and MSI have closed, proprietary broadband add-ons, that require proprietary back end services running, licensing fees, and proprietary subscribers. Reminds me of Smartnet/SmartZone vs. EDACS all over again, doesn't it?

In the last month I've managed to get 4 of the 5 schools for one of the two ISDs fixed on their VHF BDA that was built by a company that didn't know VHF trunking was a thing. BDA's are a pain in my rectal cavity...

Based on what I heard when I worked there...an EFJ LTE solution would likely be via ISSI but you hit the nail on the head. LTE integration isn't standardized and the way Motorola treats ISSI...it's cost prohibitive to implement anything other than SmartConnect which means you are locked into APX. Same goes for a VIDA core with BeON though my understanding is Harris doesn't pull the same level of the price gouging Motorola does for ISSI interfaces.

Wellsir, that's because you are a pimp.

As for all these folks that have to have LTE in their radios, well, why? Do you have drastic coverage deficiencies? Careful throwing that LTE stuff around, before you know it, we'll all be unemployed. Want to listen to the radio system at home, out of coverage? MOVE.

I mean...rural counties build for outdoor portable coverage. Not indoor. Personally, I'd rather see the county seat migrate to single band N70's and let SmartConnect handle in-building via LTE or 802.11 compared to letting any more VHF BDA's be put in. Yes it vendor locks them but on the plus side it also allows for better interoperability with our neighbors to the east since they are on the same system but have county wide 800 MHz simulcast since it's fairly easy to outrun portable radio coverage on the VHF side (they have the reverse problem but they had the tax revenue to justify multi-band radios as they have 10-20 times the population).

Of course, the question is why did we not build out 800 MHz like our neighbors did? For one our terrain is different so where they are mostly flat, we are hilly with a ton of valleys so where our neighbors cover two counties in mostly plains with 2157 square miles with 20 (2 simulcast sites of 10 subsites) RF sites often leveraging 400ft-1500ft structures (towers and high rises) we cover 2700 square miles with 10 ATS sites using towers 350 ft tall or less (all of which we had to construct as part of the system build out). Per our now decade old quotes from Motorola...building the same coverage for 800 MHz would have required some 50 RF sites. Thus, VHF was the most cost effective solution to obtain the necessary coverage footprint given we only run 4-6 channels per site (compared to the neighbors who are running 20 and 28 channels respectively as they have the loading to justify it).

 

[ThreatLevelMidnight]

Can't wait. The VP8K is a killer radio. Love mine.

Coming Soon to a system near me? lol

 

[MTS2000des]

I would MUCH rather schools and critical in buildings use WiFi than a BDA. I am dealing with this right now at our new 30 million dollar animal shelter. BDA put in to meet AHJ requirements. Doesn't work, uplink failures. Vendor is not one we usually deal with and getting them out is a production. AT&T doesn't have coverage either nor does VZW (T-Mo OTOH is rock solid) and says "use WiFi calling". CEN has 31 access points with fiber back to the county. So SC over LTE we'd be in the same sinking boat. But CEN WiFi OTOH.....

If Animal Services didn't buy the bottom barrel APX4000s, I'd have them on SC with WiFi enabled 6000s and call it a day.

 

[d119]

Seems to be we're going to rapidly reach that point where administrators/bean counters are just going to say "well, we're using the LTE more than the LMR, lets just move it over to LTE, cancel this multimillion-dollar support contract, and let the carrier handle it.".

I digress. But all you SmartConnect/BeOn users know I'm right. You're perpetuating the move off of LMR.

...But it is an inevitability anyway. Just look at Europe.

By the way, in case anyone is curious what @MTS2000des looks like, here's a family photo. That's me on the right.

 

[1BillyBob1]

Is there anything new regarding the release date and more info spec-wise other than the previously posted photos?

 

[kd4efm]

Is there anything new regarding the release date and more info spec-wise other than the previously posted photos?

Not at the moment. allegedly a 100 watt version on the drafting table.

 

[W1AHN]

EFJ will be releasing the VM8000 at IWCE next week, does anybody have any details on if it will be multi-band single deck, or will it be the the same as the VM7000, just supporting multi-protocol?

Is the software and programming the same as VP8000?

 

[DeoVindice]

Is the software and programming the same as VP8000?

Yes. Existing Armada templates can be used with VM8000s and all zone/channel/system information will carry over. It's a huge selling point of that software.

 

[d119]

Yes. Existing Armada templates can be used with VM8000s and all zone/channel/system information will carry over. It's a huge selling point of that software.

Excellent news - we're about to purchase a large amount of VP8000s at work, and a few VM8000s for testing/special use. We're all done with Motorola.

 

[wsp44]

Excellent news - we're about to purchase a large amount of VP8000s at work, and a few VM8000s for testing/special use. We're all done with Motorola.

Armada is a breeze to work with as well

 

[d119]

Armada is a breeze to work with as well

That's a fact. I have a VP8000 personally and I don't dread having to program it. And being able to do it over WiFi is obscenely wonderful.

 

[AM909]

Yes. Existing Armada templates can be used with VM8000s and all zone/channel/system information will carry over. It's a huge selling point of that software.

Yes it is.

Yesterday, I had to spend half an hour upgrading and dragging and dropping and copying and pasting to program another popular radio brand because of an insignificant difference in model numbers.

 

[wsp44]

Yes it is.

Yesterday, I had to spend half an hour upgrading and dragging and dropping and copying and pasting to program another popular radio brand because of an insignificant difference in model numbers.

that's the worst

 

[wd8chl]

Yes it is.

Yesterday, I had to spend half an hour upgrading and dragging and dropping and copying and pasting to program another popular radio brand because of an insignificant difference in model numbers.

I can tell you I've had to have as many as four or five different files for a dept that were for identical radios, because of some unknown difference in them. They look identical, but would not take the same programming file. These were CDM's and HT1250's. I hate those radios...

 

[AF1UD]

Hopefully in a couple years these types of radios will be much more common and drive the market down. They're incredibly expensive at this point.

I'm seeing it now with the NX-5000 series since the VP8000's were released.

 

[d119]

Hopefully in a couple years these types of radios will be much more common and drive the market down. They're incredibly expensive at this point.

I'm seeing it now with the NX-5000 series since the VP8000's were released.

If you are referring to VP/VM series equipment being incredibly expensive, well, I disagree compared to the Motorola offerings. Read on.

We were traditionally all-Motorola (outside of our VHF NX fleet), but someone put a demo VP8000 in my hand and I started taking a serious look at other manufacturers.

The issues are that Motorola wants to drive everything towards this Android/touchscreen crap, everything else they are offering is flimsy, and the APX 8K series is inevitably on the chopping block. There is no happy medium. Looking at some of the major issues that one agency is having with its "N" series equipment, as documented on another forum, it's downright ridiculous.

EFWood fills that happy medium quite nicely. We're able to purchase one radio that can service our VHF analog, 800MHz P25 and UHF DMR systems.

Our plans are to start looking at NXDN for our VHF operations (since we already have a massive NX fleet on VHF), and eventually the VP/VM series is slated to receive that capability as well (from what I'm being told from multiple reliable sources). I think we all know it's coming, the NXDN ESN on the back tags is a pretty good giveaway.

My point is that the old adage "You can buy better, but you can't pay more" is starting to become more and more the case as time goes on. Not only that, but we can purchase EFWood equipment using co-op purchasing contracts and save a massive amount of money and not have to go to bid. The stuff is extremely taxpayer-friendly, and as a taxpayer, I appreciate that.

I did an analysis, and for every 5 APX portables I can buy, I can buy 7.5 EFwood portables. And that's with all the discounts and whatnot applied, and no unnecessary features.

It sells itself if you're willing to look past "that name".

The reality is that they cannot offer a product that will work for what we're in need of. EFWood can. Too bad, so sad, best of luck, you'll need it.

@MTS2000des is a pimp.

 

[kayn1n32008]

If you are referring to VP/VM series equipment being incredibly expensive, well, I disagree compared to the Motorola offerings. Read on.

We were traditionally all-Motorola (outside of our VHF NX fleet), but someone put a demo VP8000 in my hand and I started taking a serious look at other manufacturers.

The issues are that Motorola wants to drive everything towards this Android/touchscreen crap, everything else they are offering is flimsy, and the APX 8K series is inevitably on the chopping block. There is no happy medium. Looking at some of the major issues that one agency is having with its "N" series equipment, as documented on another forum, it's downright ridiculous.

EFWood fills that happy medium quite nicely. We're able to purchase one radio that can service our VHF analog, 800MHz P25 and UHF DMR systems.

Our plans are to start looking at NXDN for our VHF operations (since we already have a massive NX fleet on VHF), and eventually the VP/VM series is slated to receive that capability as well (from what I'm being told from multiple reliable sources). I think we all know it's coming, the NXDN ESN on the back tags is a pretty good giveaway.

My point is that the old adage "You can buy better, but you can't pay more" is starting to become more and more the case as time goes on. Not only that, but we can purchase EFWood equipment using co-op purchasing contracts and save a massive amount of money and not have to go to bid. The stuff is extremely taxpayer-friendly, and as a taxpayer, I appreciate that.

I did an analysis, and for every 5 APX portables I can buy, I can buy 7.5 EFwood portables. And that's with all the discounts and whatnot applied, and no unnecessary features.

It sells itself if you're willing to look past "that name".

The reality is that they cannot offer a product that will work for what we're in need of. EFWood can. Too bad, so sad, best of luck, you'll need it.

@MTS2000des is a pimp.

Not only that, but the audio settings on the kenwood stuff is really Taking away any sort of audio advantage that Motorola has/had.

Kenwood/EFJ is rapidly gaining ground on market share and its Harris and Motorola that's losing it.

 

[d119]

Not only that, but the audio settings on the kenwood stuff is really Taking away any sort of audio advantage that Motorola has/had.

Kenwood/EFJ is rapidly gaining ground on market share and its Harris and Motorola that's losing it.

Good point. I have a relatively new XL200M in my car that I bought brand new, I'm already starting to see the PTT boot coming off of the microphone, the user interface is laggy, it's just not very refined. Certainly not anything I'd put in service at work (it's not compatible anyway).

It'll probably get replaced with a VM8000 some day, when I can get a good price on one personally.