What is best scanner to buy for Ottawa police

[danske]

they operate on digital.

 

[mikewazowski]

None.

No scanner will allow you to listen to Ottawa PS.

 

[Jammin_Jay]

Ottawa police use Provoice on the city EDACS system and it is encrypted. No scanner can decypher the digital modulation even all the digital scanners on the market.

But being in Ottawa, you can still listen to OPP (monitor traffic on 416, and 417). Good for rush-hour

You can also monitor Ottawa Fire, EMS,
OC transpo security used to be analog , but they are now pro-voice as well.


There are a couple of Members on here, including myself, that could help you program one, if required

 

[VE3RADIO]

Ottawa police use Provoice on the city EDACS system and it is encrypted. No scanner can decypher the digital modulation even all the digital scanners on the market.

But being in Ottawa, you can still listen to OPP (monitor traffic on 416, and 417). Good for rush-hour

You can also monitor Ottawa Fire, EMS,
OC transpo security used to be analog , but they are now pro-voice as well.


There are a couple of Members on here, including myself, that could help you program one, if required

Ottawa Police are Provoice but they are not encrypted. With a LPE200 with option 29 and a working knowledge of a trunking system and programming software you can hear Ottawa PS just fine. Would I recommend it to a newbie.. absolutely not... but it is possible.

 

[Jammin_Jay]

Apparently there is some software, that can decipher unencrypted provoice (clear), i have yet to see this work. There is a section in RR wiki . Where the scanner is hooked up to the computer via the descriminator tap and the program deciphers the digital code into audio. Ran through a linux program.

Digital speech decoder software package (provoice)

http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/DSD

It would be interesting to see if this works for OPS

According to OPS website, it says there radio comms are encrypted, not sure what the encryption refers to

 

[Jammin_Jay]

Also OPS is in for a radio replacement of their handsets according to the OPS draft budget between 2010-2012



Key operational infrastructure needs in the 2010 to 2012 horizon include:
• Replacement of the portable radio handsets (including encryption and a share of the City’s radio
infrastructure) - $10.8 million in 2010;
• Replacement of mobile workstations - $2.7 million over 2010 and 2011;
• Replacement of the main generator at the Elgin Street facility - $2.5 million in 2010;
• Extensive IT upgrades in storage and infrastructure - over $3.0 million in 2010;
• Construction of a new South Division complex - $26.2 million in 2010 with the
Communications Centre and Emergency Operations Division components being added to the
complex in 2011 and 2012.
18

This can be found on page 18, of the 2011 draft budget for Ottawa Police Service forecast (2010-2012)

Link....
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sourc...sg=AFQjCNE8Mk43Xzk0NDsCG3_7KyoyKcr9Kw&cad=rja

This is a .pdf file

 

[ou10-4]

Would you know of anybody in the area you would be able to help setting up such a system?

 

[VE3RADIO]

Also OPS is in for a radio replacement of their handsets according to the OPS draft budget between 2010-2012



Key operational infrastructure needs in the 2010 to 2012 horizon include:
• Replacement of the portable radio handsets (including encryption and a share of the City’s radio
infrastructure) - $10.8 million in 2010;
• Replacement of mobile workstations - $2.7 million over 2010 and 2011;
• Replacement of the main generator at the Elgin Street facility - $2.5 million in 2010;
• Extensive IT upgrades in storage and infrastructure - over $3.0 million in 2010;
• Construction of a new South Division complex - $26.2 million in 2010 with the
Communications Centre and Emergency Operations Division components being added to the
complex in 2011 and 2012.
18

This can be found on page 18, of the 2011 draft budget for Ottawa Police Service forecast (2010-2012)

Link....
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sourc...sg=AFQjCNE8Mk43Xzk0NDsCG3_7KyoyKcr9Kw&cad=rja

This is a .pdf file

Wonder what handset they will go to... I know they have jaguar 700p at the moment... seems like a waste of taxpayer dollars to upgrade to encryption when almost nobody can hear them as it stands.

 

[mmisk]

DSD for Windows works very well for listening to Provoice. It is true you have to jump through a few hoops to get it all working but it is a lot of fun if you like playing around with computers. Scanners that will track and display provoice talkgroups are hard to find, so you will have to set up Unitrunker on your computer to decode the data channel, and then steer a scanner to follow the talkgroups. Unitrunker is an amazing application that supports quite a long list of scanners that have computer control. What kind of scanner do you own? Radioreference.com has everything you need to know. Anyway let me know if you need any help as I enjoy playing with this sort of software.

Mike

 

[VE3RADIO]

DSD for Windows works very well for listening to Provoice. It is true you have to jump through a few hoops to get it all working but it is a lot of fun if you like playing around with computers. Scanners that will track and display provoice talkgroups are hard to find, so you will have to set up Unitrunker on your computer to decode the data channel, and then steer a scanner to follow the talkgroups. Unitrunker is an amazing application that supports quite a long list of scanners that have computer control. What kind of scanner do you own? Radioreference.com has everything you need to know. Anyway let me know if you need any help as I enjoy playing with this sort of software.

Mike

The better way would be to get a jasguar or lpe and have it setup to recieve only.

 

[ou10-4]

Thanks for your response! Mike, I currently only have a BCT15 but have a BDC996XT on the way. I'm also planning on getting an LPE-200 in the next month or so. I did alot of research and like WZ1 mentioned, it seems like it would be the better way (for me anyway) to listen to a couple of EDACS systems of interest both in & out the region. WZ1, would you be able to tell me if once I receive the radio, I'll be able to add/remove new frequencies or if that has to be done with the programming software. Also, it is my understanding that the BCD996XT will be able to scan EDACS systems as long as they're not Provoice or encrypted, am I correct?

 

[VE3RADIO]

Thanks for your response! Mike, I currently only have a BCT15 but have a BDC996XT on the way. I'm also planning on getting an LPE-200 in the next month or so. I did alot of research and like WZ1 mentioned, it seems like it would be the better way (for me anyway) to listen to a couple of EDACS systems of interest both in & out the region. WZ1, would you be able to tell me if once I receive the radio, I'll be able to add/remove new frequencies or if that has to be done with the programming software. Also, it is my understanding that the BCD996XT will be able to scan EDACS systems as long as they're not Provoice or encrypted, am I correct?

Scanning an edacs system with a real radio is not for the casual listener.. you really need to know what your doing. You would need a 100 dollar programming cable and some very expensive software.

 

[ou10-4]

Thanks WZ1! I would have the radio programmed for me before it get's shipped and was just wondering about the reprogramming for the long run. When you said that scanning an EDACS system is not for the casual listener, you meant that programming the radio can be very complex right? If it's already programmed before it gets to me and all I plan on doing is listening I shouldn't have to worry about anything right? By the way, all TX will be disabled so that would not be an issue.

 

[DaveH]

Thanks WZ1! I would have the radio programmed for me before it get's shipped and was just wondering about the reprogramming for the long run. When you said that scanning an EDACS system is not for the casual listener, you meant that programming the radio can be very complex right? If it's already programmed before it gets to me and all I plan on doing is listening I shouldn't have to worry about anything right? By the way, all TX will be disabled so that would not be an issue.

Sounds like you're new at this, so can I suggest you figure some things out before the
radio gets shipped?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong; but doesn't an EDACS radio programmed as a system
require a system key? People authorized shouldn't be giving these out to just anybody,
and if somebody's offering to use one who shouldn't have it, I wouldn't go there
(and I don't want to know about it).

Then it's reduced to scanning system frequencies manually; not sure how well
that would work in this case.

Second point, do you know which talkgroups to get programmed (if you have one
chance, without having to send it back and likely pay). The RR Database has some
specifc/dated info, but there's a whole lot of digital TGs not listed (dozen or two). I don't know
what they all are, but anyone who runs ETRUNK or UniTrunker can see them.
I suspect people who know keep this fairly quiet. Up to now, ability to monitor
clear Provoice has been fairly limited, but is now opening up with DSD software,
although getting a trunked setup is not a pushover.

As for TX disabled, great, hope it is done correctly. Possible consequence if it's
not, are radio interefering with the system, and likely getting shut down over the
air ("bricked") which will render it as a bookend.

Last; EDACS is on the chopping block. Harris (or should I say, Harris/Tyco/Macom/
Com-Net/Ericsson-GE) (did I miss any? ) will support what's there for now, but eventually
Ottawa has to switch to something else (P25 is one rumoured); system is now ~15 years old.

Dave

 

[ou10-4]

First, I want to thank you for your input as it's exactly the kind of feedback I'm looking for.

Concerning the system key, I believe you are absolutely right Dave. However, from what I understand, there seems to be a couple ways to work arround that, one of which consists of using a specific range that is usually unused by the system. Also, having the TX disabled from both one of the option menu and by having all the TX values set to 0 would make the radio almost undetectable by the system manager.

About the talkgroups, I currently have a list of about 50 of them that I'll want to have programmed. I found them on both RR and other forums and think it's worth giving them a shot.

Concerning the EDACS system having to be replaced, I'm totally aware of the issue. In fact, according to this uear's draft budget, OPS already started buying new radios but the implemtation of the new system won't happen until 2016. Also, they don't specify what the new system will be except for the fact that it will be encrypted. Like you said, P25 wouldn't suprise me as Gatineau PD across the river is already using such a system. However, I still think that for the next 4 years, the investment of an LPE would be worth it.

As I said earlier, I won't be ordering it before the next month or so so any feedback is really appreciated!

 

[unlisted]

Concerning the system key, I believe you are absolutely right Dave. However, from what I understand, there seems to be a couple ways to work arround that, one of which consists of using a specific range that is usually unused by the system. Also, having the TX disabled from both one of the option menu and by having all the TX values set to 0 would make the radio almost undetectable by the system manager.

You are talking about a Radio ID there, not a System key. They are two very different things. Radio ID can be programmed up easily to anything you want, System keys are next to impossible to (legally) find out, more illegal to program into a radio without permission, and well, if you were ever found with a "functioning" radio, even if it only did RX, well, I would not want to be you. (more so since we are talking Ottawa here...)

Even with the radio ID set a certain way, "system managers" can still stun/kill your radio. Its simply a matter of them sending out a certain data burst to "brick" any non legit radio monitoring on their system.

 

[Jammin_Jay]

Ottawa Police will be swtiching to a fully integrated p25 system
They will contribute 2.5 million dollars to the project. Which other ottawa city services will also contribute to the new radio system.

This system will allow Ottawa Police to have interop ability with Gatineau Police and RCMP.

the p25 radio system is currently being worked on, and all OPS radios will have p25 overlay, as the provoice talkgroups
system will be phased out.,

The information can be found on the Ottawa Police Service website
Ottawa Police Budget - radio replacement program, page 179 of the document.


The Ottawa Police Service (OPS) requires a reliable, secure radio communications platform for use by front
line officers, investigative sections, specialty units, and supporting sections. Additionally, the OPS aims to
enhance its communications interoperability with other Police agencies, including RCMP, OPP, and
Gatineau Police.
The portable radio model currently in use by the OPS is no longer in production. The manufacturer no
longer provides components for the devices and the OPS is presently using parts from its inventory to
maintain the current radios. The replacement radios will be compatible with the existing radio network as
well as the new P25 digital radio communications technology.
The OPS has identified a financial requirement of $10.54 million to replace and enhance the current
inventory of 768 portable radios and 434 mobile radios. This cost includes all accessories, installation and
encryption technology.
2010 2011

http://ottawapolice.ca/Libraries/Publications/2010_Draft_Budget_11.sflb.ashx
Whether this system will be fully encrypted... is yet to be determined.

-So basically folks... NO MORE PRO-VOICE.

 

[warrior420]

I have 1 PSR-600 (early version) left that will trunk track the PV tg's. All you would need is 1 computer to run DSD, this setup works very well and it will also double as a digital scanner for other systems. I live in the Ottawa area. Let me know if your interested in it.

 

[mmisk]

Your BCT15

It looks like your BCT15 is supported by Unitrunker for voice following via it's comm port.

According to this RR link you have EDACS capability with your BCT 15:

BCT15 - The RadioReference Wiki

So so can do quite a bit with what you have. Have you tried Unitrunker yet?

Mike

Thanks for your response! Mike, I currently only have a BCT15 ETC.......

 

[ou10-4]

Thanks all for all your responses! I'm looking for a mobile/ portable system so a computer running DSD wouldn't work in my case but thanks anyways for the info! About my BCT15 being EDACS capable, I knew about it but it doesn't support Provoice so that's the reason why I was looking for an LPE.