Whats up with the bad launguage

[robertmac]

03.840.00KHz

its like a C.B. world with MF this and MF that. This make us look bad.
:evil:

No, the only ones that are made to look bad are the ones doing it!

 

[Rred]

Colorful invective and proper cursing are art forms. It is possible to make clergymen and spinsters turn bright red, cover their ears, and run screaming from the building without using any of the famous Seven Banned Words. Use of the same seven words of profanity all the time, is just a sign of a limited vocabulary. Perhaps The FCC needs to add "Element 0: The Vocabulary of Invective" to all license classes?

WIih extra points for adjectives, articles, case, tense, and split infinitives?

 

[KE0GXN]

I can care less if Captain Dave or the many out there like him want to get drunk and spout nonsense on 7.200, 3.843 or 14.313, etc...

Its when they start jamming legitimate nets or folks calling CQ is what aggravates me. Many times when the Hurricane Watch Nets were active this year, idiots would get on there and jam the nets.

You literally have to be a complete loser with no life what so ever to find the time to jam a public service net.

 

[AB4BF]

I am amazed at how they give animate abilities to inanimate objects...

 

[plughie]

14.313 was not actually "cleaned up." A couple of people got busted for jamming and other illegal activities, but nobody got busted for profanity, since it is not illegal. 14.313 got "cleaned up" because these days propagation on 20m sucks compared to yesteryear. Most of the bad actors moved to 7.200.

Profanity over the airwaves is actually illegal. You can be fined or lose your license over it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[bill4long]

Profanity over the airwaves is actually illegal. You can be fined or lose your license over it. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You are mistaken. Supreme Court case law determined that profanity is protected speech, which is why the FCC removed the term "profanity" from 97.113(4). What remains are the terms "obscene or indecent words or language;". The Supreme Court in Miller vs California 1973 defined obscene and indecent with the following "Three Prong Test." (All three conditions must be met) :

1. whether the average person, applying contemporary "community standards", would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest; AND

2. whether the work depicts or describes, in an offensive way, sexual conduct or excretory functions, as specifically defined by applicable state law (the syllabus of the case mentions only sexual conduct, but excretory functions are explicitly mentioned on page 25 of the majority opinion); AND

3. whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.

Mere profanity such as the F-word, MF, GD, S-word, C-word, N-word, etc, do not qualify under this Three Prong Test.

Nobody has ever been fined or lost their amateur radio license due to profanity since this landmark ruling in 1973.

 

[TheSpaceMann]

Using bad "language" and racial slurs is one thing, but flagrantly violating rules such as constant jamming, playing sound effects and music, and failing to Identify for hours on end is something else entirely. (the 435 repeater) That alone should be sufficient reason for FCC enforcement action. K6MWT 147.4350 MHz Los Angeles Renegade Repeater - Live Audio Feed Web Player

 

[AK9R]

I am not a lawyer. I don't play one on TV. And, it's been several months since I slept at a Holiday Inn Express.

There are words in the Supreme Court's "Three Prong Test" that I think make it difficult to enforce, especially in the context of radio communications:

1. whether the average person, applying contemporary "community standards", would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest; AND

2. whether the work depicts or describes, in an offensive way, sexual conduct or excretory functions, as specifically defined by applicable state law (the syllabus of the case mentions only sexual conduct, but excretory functions are explicitly mentioned on page 25 of the majority opinion); AND

3. whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.

Whose community are we talking about? My community on the receiving end or the sender's community on the transmitting end. Community standards are not uniform across the U.S. Speech or behavior that is acceptable in one part of the country may or may not be acceptable in another part of the country. But, radio waves go everywhere without regard to community boundaries.

The state law phrase makes the situation even stickier. Radio waves don't stop at state lines or international borders. An amateur radio operator in Canada or Mexico could have a dramatic impact on amateur radio in the U.S., but I don't think the FCC has jurisdiction in those countries even though radio waves from those countries freely enter the U.S. And, that's even more of a challenge when it comes to state laws which are certainly not consistent when it comes to sexual conduct or excretory functions.

As for artistic, literary, political, or scientific value, this is very, very subjective. Wasn't there a judge who said something along the lines of "I can't define pornography, but I know it when I see it"? One man's trash is another man's treasure.

The end result of this is that amateur radio operators are rarely, if ever, sanctioned by the FCC for profanity on the air. We, as amateur radio operators, are our best defense. If you don't like what you hear, don't listen. Don't provide these "bad actors" with an audience. And, that includes talking about them in social media.

 

[AK9R]

Using bad "language" and racial slurs is one thing, but flagrantly violating rules such as constant jamming, playing sound effects and music, and failing to Identify for hours on end is something else entirely.

The OP asked about profanity, not jamming, playing music, or failing to identify. Those are completely different from using profanity on the air. Let's try to keep this discussion on topic.

 

[teufler]

As a prior OOC, I recorded some stuff, from hams who were down in a southern state. I wrote them a note that they knew better. New hams coming into the band, it was bad example as most were coming from CB and our bands were supposed to be "nicer". I did not inform the FCC as a letter asking for them top clean it up, I felt they deserved a request rather than getting a brown helmet. One of them wrote me back, said thank you, and further monitoring seed to clear things up. Perhaps an OOC can have the same results. If Washington gets into the act, many times it will be a cost of money to clean up the airways. All there were was a bunch of "good ol boys" whose used a very relaxed form of conversation. Sometimes a letter with copies of FCC action reports, does the trick also.

 

[KE0SKN]

Wow!! never knew this post would take off like this. "Gramps" God Bless Hiis Soul.. Always talked about the 7 signs on air, so I thought the people that used these words where either pirates / Truckers. But theres bad hams out there too..lol...

 

[ladn]

QLF? - Are you sending with your left foot?
.
QBS - Clean the bird sh*t off your antenna so you can hear me
QAS? - Are you speaking out of your a*s?
.
And my favorite:
.
QWC? - Who cares?

........................CF

I always like adding new words to my vocabulary.
TNX!

 

[Chronic]

Fcc tried and failed to act on obscene and profane language with a famous ham from the 435 repeater , part of the reason the fcc wont go anywhere near 147.435

actual FCC Document

https://n0aka.com/Hildebrand_vs_FCC-1981-83.pdf

 

[KC4RAF]

I guess it's alright to bring your kids up with the F.this,F.that,F.you in publix where YOUR kids can see and hear it.
To me it just indicates no respect for others, notwithstanding freedom of speech.

"F**K Trump" driver weighing civil rights lawsuit against Fort Bend Sheriff - Story | WOFL

 

[mmckenna]

Sure Freedom of Speech. I get it.

But on the flip side, there's a thing called "self control". Knowing when it's not OK to swear is something that is frequently missing in society. Freedom to cuss has been replaced by "I can cuss when ever/where ever I want with impunity".
Like most freedoms, it comes with some responsibility. Unfortunately some don't ever want to take responsibility for their actions. Freedoms are considered something you just take, not something you treat with respect.

I was brought up not to swear. I learned that from the beginning. The words you hear on the playground don't necessarily belong in your vocabulary at home. That was dealt with pretty quick.
Time passes…
I go into the service. Go to "Uncle Sams Cuss Like a Sailor School". Passed with honors.
Time passes…
Come home, go to work in the public sector.
Somewhere in my brain, the "cuss like a sailor" knob is not turned down all the way. A few cuss words fly at work, and a nice lady calls me on it. I apologize and clean up my language.

It's easy to get in the habit, either way. Takes some discipline, but it's possible if you put your mind to it. It's not a disease, it's not an addiction.

Now, I've got a couple of people work for me. All professionals. I don't swear. Certainly not at work, never in front of customers, never at home. My staff is the same way. Act professional, get treated like a professional.
I'd never hire someone that came in looking for a job that couldn't control their language, but that's just me. If you cannot control your language at work, there's likely other things you may not be able to control. Becomes a red flag.
Same goes with amateur radio operators. If hams want to be treated like "professional communicators", then it's time to act like professionals.

 

[Chronic]

I agree will all 100%
Except the part that hams are amateurs , not professionals .
professionals are on your commercial TV and Radio .

 

[mmckenna]

I agree will all 100%
Except the part that hams are amateurs , not professionals .
professionals are on your commercial TV and Radio .

Very true.
However, many hams talk about EMCOMM, helping out public safety, etc. That stuff doesn't fly there. 20+ years I've worked on equipment for a PD, FD and PSAP. Never once have I heard foul language on the radio.
But, yes, amateur is the key word.

 

[com501]

Remember the First Amendment only applies to restrictions on speech placed by the GOVERNMENT. Your employer, regardless of whom it is, can restrict your speech. Employment is voluntary.

 

[bill4long]

Whats up with the bad launguage

I must confess that the genuinely interesting thing about this thread is the fact that "launguage" was misspelled so horribly in the OP.

 

[Token]

But on the flip side, there's a thing called "self control". Knowing when it's not OK to swear is something that is frequently missing in society. Freedom to cuss has been replaced by "I can cuss when ever/where ever I want with impunity".
<<<<snip>>>>
I was brought up not to swear. I learned that from the beginning. The words you hear on the playground don't necessarily belong in your vocabulary at home. That was dealt with pretty quick.

^^^^this^^^^

Ham radio is a cross section of the society its members come from, and generally reflect the actions of that society.

40 or 50 years ago you almost never heard this kind of language on the ham radio. But then again, you never really heard it much in public. Sure, it existed, you heard it on work sites, you heard it in clubs, you heard it in some locations, but you essentially never heard anyone walking down the street or in a public theater / ball game / etc dropping F bombs or every third word being one of the seven words you can&#8217;t say on TV. But today it is common.

What is lacking is consideration for your fellow person. In the past you (and by you I mean the majority of the people) refrained in certain situations from potentially (key word there, potentially) offending people around you. Now an increasing number of people do not consider their actions offensive, and since it is not offensive to them it cannot possibly be potentially offensive to others. Or worse yet, they increasingly take the attitude of &#8220;if you are offended by my actions, F you, I won&#8221;.

You mention &#8220;cuss like a sailor&#8221;, been there, done that, got the t-shirt&#8230;and the liberty cuffs in my blues (and I still have them). In certain environments I have no issue with being as &#8220;colorful&#8221; as I can be, proper cursing can be an artform. But my mother passed away without ever having heard me drop the F word, and I don&#8217;t think I used &#8220;damn&#8221; in front of her more than a few times. And in general in a public situation I try to treat everyone around me the same way, until they give me a reason to think otherwise I assume they would be offended, and I try not to offend them.

So today a few cesspools exist on the airwaves. Cesspools consistently occupied by inconsiderate, intentionally offensive, louts. They clearly don&#8217;t care if they offend others, and in fact probably desire to shock and offend others. They may want to stand out in their own minds as people exercising free speech and unconstrained individualism. But what they really are is kids on the playground who have not yet learned that just because you can say an adult word does not make you an adult, or even &#8220;cool&#8221;. And since most of these people are, at least based on a calendar, already adults, it is quite likely they will never learn.

Your ability to correct a child is more and more limited today. Why did I never cuss in front of my mother? Because the very few times I did it early on, when I brought those playground words home, I got cuffed hard enough to see stars. This gentle woman who never raised her voice, never had a bad thing to say about people in general, always gave the benefit of the doubt, she smacked me on my head so hard I still feel it today in memory. Today it might be called child abuse by some, but it certainly worked.

I wonder if it would work on 3840?

Fortunately, my radio has lots of other frequencies to choose from, and so rather than listen to this kind of thing I will spin the dial. And that is often the solution suggested, &#8220;don&#8217;t like it? Change frequencies&#8221;. Sure that works now, but what happens when it spreads, and you can't find freqs without this kind of language? And don&#8217;t say it can&#8217;t happen, if you had suggested when I first got licensed that such things as 3840 or 14313, or even 147.435, would be allowed to happen, and further would be defended by some, EVERYONE in the local radio club would have said you were wrong, and no way it could be allowed to happen.

Acquiescing to this kind of activity, allowing it to happen without expressing dislike, or without pointing out the inconsiderate nature of it, will only cause it to become more acceptable and eventually the &#8220;norm&#8221;. Because certainly it appears that people are learning the potentially offensive nature of this at home less and less. The news article of the woman in Florida that KC4RAF pointed out shows this kind of degradation. Not only was this mother of 12 willing to drive around with offensive language publicly on her car, but one of her children called her a &#8220;hero&#8221; for doing so.

You think those 12 children have learned to be considerate of others? I am betting not.

T!