When oh when?

[K6GBW]

I have a Motorola XPR mobile radio in my truck that uses a hand held control head. In other words, all the controls for the radio, and even the speakers are in teh microphone. The cord goes under the passenger seat to the "brick" unit. This is literally the only radio I've dealt with in years that will actually fit inside a modern car without resorting to major dash surgery. I keep waiting for the YaComKen to wake up and make a radio in this configuration that people can actually mount in a car. It seems 90% of the people that I talk to are using a hand held in a car and although it works it's not fun listening to people sputter and pop at two watts when a decent mobile at even 10-15 watts would be tons better. How can we reach out to the manufacturers and get this idea in their heads!

 

[vagrant]

I use an XTL5000 with the HHCH which works for me too. Still, I also use a Yaesu rig w/remote head. It is mounted on top of a stiffish pole mount that attaches to the bolt of the seat, keeping it out of the way yet visible. Prior to that I used a Kenwood w/remote head on the same mount. There’s even room for my Kenwood 480 control head at the same time. It holds them well even when off road. I actually use two of these. The other holds a handheld scanner Mounted on the drivers side.

Here is a mount made by Lido.

 

[jaspence]

Not in the Moto class, but the VR-N7500 dual band unit mounts where you need it (4x6x1.25). It can be controlled by a cell phone app, cat 5 cable mike, or a wireless mike. If connected to a hot circuit, starts when the vechicle is started and shuts off with the vehicle. Programming is via blue tooth from the Android cell phone or tablet app. Performance is good despite being somewhat of a novelty.

 

[K6GBW]

Vagrant, I'm familiar with those mounts. But still, not what I want. I'm just wondering what is taking the manufacturers so long to figure this out. Two-way radios have been built essentially the exact same way for fifty years now. They still think we can bolt them under the dash, but the dashes aren't made that way anymore. It's time for a fundamental change in design. The remote unit with control head mic is what we need. I honestly think the Japanese makers are checking out on us. It's like the designers in Japan are on a different plant. After all, they make most of the cars we drive as well!

I guess I'm just really frustrated. I help friends do installs and they radio of choice right now is Motorola XPR series radios. It gets old trying to figure out cleaver ways to shoehorn these things into modern cars. Especially given that most people don't want to drill holes for antennas and don't want this or that. They end up using an AnyTone with a speaker mic and then when you're talking to them on a repeater they sound horrible. Sigh... just wish Japan would listen once in awhile.

 

[vagrant]

Hmm...I sort of prefer both styles. The XTL5K with the HHCH is perfect for me as I leave it searching through the P25 zone stuff mostly. The Amateur and GMRS are secondary for the XTL5K radio. Also, I enjoy the larger amateur remote head screen. I probably look at more information on there than others that simply cycle through the frequencies, especially APRS, GPS, Messaging and even altitude info. I also use my amateur mobile to scan non-ham stuff and enjoy being able to glance at the freq it stops on. Even Midland has a HHCH radio for GMRS, but it sucks with the narrow band and I immediately returned it and purchased the XTL5K instead.

It seems like the root of the problem for you (me too) is the poor audio from others. Is there a Kenwood plug style of microphone that sounds better than the others? I believe that style is what most of the non Icom and Yaesu makers use for handhelds. If they're looking to you for installation, my guess is they would also go with your microphone recommendation for handhelds.

There are two other points to consider:
1. People talking into the microphone instead of across it. Teach them and remind them.
2. The quality of the microphone and radio hardware/software handling of the audio in a Motorola versus amateur stuff.

 

[popnokick]

Connect Systems CS800D has a removable faceplate / remote head. VHF / UHF FM Analog / DMR 45W mobile.
Connect Systems

 

[vagrant]

The OP wants Hand Held Control Head radios with quality audio. Hmm…one option could be Motorola XTS5000 handheld radios and use an XTVA/Convertacom. I use those with the W3 HHCH. I have VHF and UHF. Ahhh…wait, one needs to turn it off/on at the radio directly. Well, that might be an option for some. Any RF amp will work, or dual band amp and use a diplexer. The radios, XTVA and mic are not costly.

Connect Systems CS800D has a removable faceplate / remote head. VHF / UHF FM Analog / DMR 45W mobile.
Connect Systems

 

[kj4jaq]

Especially given that most people don't want to drill holes for antennas and don't want this or that.

Hood/fender gap (fender bolt secured/grounded) NMO mounts. Best thing I have used besides the recently discovered truck 3rd brakelight NMO mounts. getting rg58 and a power cable through a firewall isn't rocket appliances due to their size. the worst part really is radio selection and placement.

I too have a HHCH for my XPR5550e, and I love it. Mine has quality audio output compared to most regular commercial radios. Only radios I have with better quality audio/speakers are my TK-790s and an old Aerotron radio, but that too is the difference of speaker sizes and/or what it was built for I am sure.

 

[n5ims]

What specifically do you need from an HHCH that's not available on the typical ham dual band radio? Most have remote heads so the radio can be mounted under the seat and the head mounted in an out of the way spot for when you need it. In addition, many radios have controls on their microphone for the most common functions. The only time I need to touch my control head on my Kenwood for typical operations is to change the volume or squelch. I can select memory or VFO mode and move up or down the channels in that mode. There are also two other controls that can be programmed for specific need(s). The biggest negative I see (and there's a extension cord from Kenwood to handle that) is the microphone plugs into the radio, not the control head (I'm sure your XPR does too). This makes it too easy to have the mic be pulled down onto the floor when you set it down (using the mic clip does fix this but I don't always do that between transmissions).

 

[K6GBW]

It's not what I need. But why aren't the manufactures addressing this? Cars aren't made the same way they were thirty years ago but they still crank out the same dictionary shaped radio. Where is it supposed to go? All of the options cited are fine, but for most people they just want to install a mobile radio that puts out a little more power and has an external antenna. The Motorola XPR series are fantastic, but Moto's don't permit promiscuous mode, which is extremely useful to hams, plus Moto's are expensive and hard to program for the average user. If YaKenCom would just make a remote radio that could be mounted under the seat and controlled by the microphone they'd sell like hot cakes. I've been mounting radios in fleets of cars for 35 years and I keep wondering when this is gonna happen. Right now, all of my radios except my HF are Motorola because of the silly things the ham radio manufacturers are doing. Just seems like the manufacturers are so disconnected and it's frustrating. There's gotta be a way to communicate to them. But even if we could, would they listen?

 

[K6GBW]

Vagrant, I also run two XTL 5K's in my Chevy Colorado. Great radios! The only headache is having to take a laptop and cable with me when I travel in case changes need to be made. Scanning P-25? You must be in the Central Valley? Down here in L.A. There are only a handful of P25 repeaters. The N6LXX system is probably the largest and combines both UHF and 900 MHz P25 machines. I wish P25 was more prevalent here but DMR is fly poo, it's everywhere!

 

[Firekite]

all the controls for the radio, and even the speakers are in teh microphone.

The remote unit with control head mic is what we need.

You say that, but that style of radio interface is primarily intended for end users running in a static, closed, pre-programmed system. They just need to know what “channel” they’re on and switch between them. Imagine trying to flip through menus to not only seek but if you already know the tones try programming in everything to add a repeater, much less APRS stuff or whatever else. It would be as torturous as trying to program a Baofeng, or even worse really with an even smaller display. There’s a whole lot to some of these dual band amateur radios that wouldn’t lend itself well to a simplified HHCH setup, at least not for most people.

I also use a Yaesu rig w/remote head.

I have the FTM-400, too. The frustrating downside is that the mic connects not to the control head but to the radio body itself. I’m sure they have their reasons for making that choice, but I can’t imagine what they could possibly be.

 

[mmckenna]

Not what you are looking for, yet….

I was at IWCE and Icom had a new iDAS single band LMR radio that had a HHCH. I should have taken a photo of it, but I figured I'd just pull it up on their website. But it's not there.

Again, not what you are looking for, but it's the first budget friendly LMR radio I've seen with an HHCH.

Now, just get Icom to migrate it over to the ham side with some firmware updates, and you might have what you are looking for.

 

[K6GBW]

I sorta fell in love with HHCH's about ten years ago. I was loaned out to another agency that used them in their undercover cars. The simplicity and ease of hiding it away were just too much to resist. I ended up spending way too much to get one added to my XTL. But it was totally worth it!

 

[vagrant]

So easy to tuck between the seat and * poof * no visible radio. I too thought about adding that O3 to my XTL, but I didn't like the cost, plus fooling around with whatever TIB that I have no clue about. I'm rarely in the vehicle, so the W3 works fine. For the money I would rather put a VHF 5K in there too, but we only have four VHF P25 repeaters that I would use in my central Cal area. The other added benefit is using the same W3 style HHCH with my XTS5K's that I use at home. Still, so much more information and easier to read with that O3.

Anyways, if one of the big 3 make something for the amateur market please ping me. I'll probably buy one. I'm not holding my breath though.

The simplicity and ease of hiding it away were just too much to resist. I ended up spending way too much to get one added to my XTL. But it was totally worth it!

 

[MTS2000des]

I'm guessing the "big three" aren't interested in developing a quality HHCH that fills the need the way the O3/W3 heads do. As was mentioned, putting an HHCH on a ham toy and making it usable the way most hams expect means developing a complex UI, squeezing all the functionality into a compact head, and adding a speaker with usable audio in a vehicle is just an expensive proposition.

FWIW the O3 head alone is around $900 from MSI. Add this to your $5000-9000 APX mobile. They are well made, well designed, and purpose built for being easy to operate while driving. A small number (5) CPS configurable soft keys. This wouldn't be adequate for a full function dual band ham rig.

and then the Chinese competition cuts into any profit they might see. Hams are cheap and whine about spending $40 on a programming cable.

 

[mrweather]

Anyone remember the Yaesu FT-8500 with the "potato head" mic from the 1990's? I think that's about as close as we got to a true HHCH radio but it still required the display to be separate (although it had almost no buttons).

 

[mmckenna]

Anyone remember the Yaesu FT-8500 with the "potato head" mic from the 1990's?

Man, I forgot all about that mess.

Took a while for amateur radio to catch up with remote head radios. Same on the CB side. At least CB has a few HHCH options.

Maybe someday Yaesu or Icom will release something.

 

[AK9R]

Anyone remember the Yaesu FT-8500 with the "potato head" mic from the 1990's?

And, remember how poorly it was received by the amateur radio community? You think Yaesu's product planners have taken note and will think twice or three times about suggesting a similar radio in the future? Likewise, you think Alinco, Icom, and Kenwood didn't take note of that radio's reception by the market?

 

[N4KVE]

And, remember how poorly it was received by the amateur radio community? You think Yaesu's product planners have taken note and will think twice or three times about suggesting a similar radio in the future? Likewise, you think Alinco, Icom, and Kenwood didn't take note of that radio's reception by the market?

I remember that radio well. It was a great radio that got zero intermod in downtown Miami. But when I first saw it in the magazines I said that Mike was totally ridiculous, & I refused to buy it. Apparently others thought the same thing because a few months later they came out with that radio with a regular Mike for less $. While the radio worked very well, the menu settings were very involved, & just to change a PL tone meant 4 different button presses. I sold it after a year.