Where's the ARRL's vaunted EMCOMM?

[Spankymedic7]

You don't like it, sorry, that is the way I choose to call them out because this is exactly what I have seen first hand. It doesn't detract from the factual context nor the truth. I apologize to you if you feel offended. I genuinely hope you have a better day.

Nope, no apologies needed. My feelings aren't hurt in the slightest. And thank you for the end comment, I don't have any issues with you personally. I actually enjoy your your posts. Take care, have a great weekend.

 

[AK9R]

The thread wasn't started by me.

You made your point, and I made mine.

So, perhaps it is time for both of you to bow out of the conversation. You have made your positions on the matter abundantly clear. No point beating a dead horse.

For someone wondering about the ARRL's response, you can find it on their website: Devastating Hawaii Wildfires Prompt Response from Amateur Radio Emergency Service

 

[N4DES]

Starlink had a very good showing as well to assist with the communications and recovery activities.

Elon Musk’s Starlink will reposition satellites to provide Florida with more internet access as residents recover from Hurricane Ian

The broadband internet satellite company will deploy 120 terminals to the state, Gov. Ron DeSantis said.

www.marketwatch.com

 

[dlwtrunked]

Oh but "One Has Seen MANY disasters", both natural and HAM made. So YES, I will comment.. Unless the local authorities are REQUESTING Ham radio help, Hams should stand down and wait.

No disagreement.
(Hams should diplomatically have made local authorities aware of them as a group with a contact person well before any incident>)

 

[dlwtrunked]

Oh but "One Has Seen MANY disasters", both natural and HAM made. So YES, I will comment.. Unless the local authorities are REQUESTING Ham radio help, Hams should stand down and wait.

Give an example of a HAM made disaster.

 

[dcr_inc]

Many EMA functions where hams showed up and started their own nets. When they did this, information was getting misguided and facts were not correct.
ICS is not in their skill set..
"I'm grandfathered in, Been passin' traffic since I was a kid, I don't need anybody telling me how to do it"

 

[k6cpo]

One thing that seems to been overlooked in this entire discussion is that Maui is an ISLAND. It's accessible only by boat or airplane. It's not like an adjacent city, county or state can just load up a bunch of trucks with relief supplies, including communications gear and operators, and drive to Maui. It's going to take a lot longer to get working infrastructure and "boots-on-the-ground" to the disaster area than it would if this had happened on the mainland.

 

[AK9R]

Does anyone have links to news articles which state that public safety communications has been disrupted and remains disrupted?

Maui County government info can be found here: Maui County, HI - Official Website | Official Website

Hawaiʻi's statewide news agency is maintaining a list of ways that people can help: Want to help those devastated by the Maui wildfires? Here’s how

 

[RichardKramer]

One thing that seems to been overlooked in this entire discussion is that Maui is an ISLAND. It's accessible only by boat or airplane. It's not like an adjacent city, county or state can just load up a bunch of trucks with relief supplies, including communications gear and operators, and drive to Maui. It's going to take a lot longer to get working infrastructure and "boots-on-the-ground" to the disaster area than it would if this had happened on the mainland.

And repairs are still being made in Puerto Rico - another Island disaster even being c!oser to the US. The problem with encryption is that officials can tell you what they want you to hear whether it's the truth or not. I've heard many times on the scanner that there was a fatality in a fire or accident and the next day in the paper the article says officials don't know if there were any injuries when you know darn well there were. The transparency has gone by the wayside in this Country and there's so much corruption anymore you don't know who to believe unless you hear and see it yourself aka this administration.

 

[N4DES]

One thing that seems to been overlooked in this entire discussion is that Maui is an ISLAND. It's accessible only by boat or airplane. It's not like an adjacent city, county or state can just load up a bunch of trucks with relief supplies, including communications gear and operators, and drive to Maui. It's going to take a lot longer to get working infrastructure and "boots-on-the-ground" to the disaster area than it would if this had happened on the mainland.

According to reports the impacted area on Maui is approximately 20 square miles out of an island that is 727 square miles. It's not like the entire island was affected and local resources were totally decimated and no longer available. If hurricane Dora hit it instead, that was one of the primary causes of this fire incident, could have caused much more wide-spread damage. Maui wildfire map: A look at how Hurricane Dora and low humidity are fueling Hawaii fires

 

[alcahuete]

All the Maui ham websites talk about EMCOMM and how they're damn near prepared for a nuclear blast. This disaster happens, and crickets.

As was said, this disaster was extremely localized. It is a relatively tiny portion of a huge island. Even the hotel where I always stay in Maui (3 miles North of Lahaina) is still open.

I'm not really sure what the hams should be doing in the first place. Leave it to the first responders.

 

[KK4JUG]

Leave it to the first responders.

More specifically, leave it to the professionals.

 

[K6GBW]

I know everyone has their idea about what ham radio is and what it does. But when I think of emergency communications I think of it more for me personally. I live in an earthquake prone area and at least twice in the last thirty years we've had earthquakes that took out my phone for days. So now I have a 40 meter frequency that my friend and my brother will monitor is I'm hit again. Then, there's the fact that I backpack and hike a lot. I frequently find myself in areas with no phone coverage. Most of those places I can reach someone on the radio. So is in emcomm? I dunno, but it's what I got and it's working for me.

 

[MTS2000des]

I know everyone has their idea about what ham radio is and what it does. But when I think of emergency communications I think of it more for me personally. I live in an earthquake prone area and at least twice in the last thirty years we've had earthquakes that took out my phone for days. So now I have a 40 meter frequency that my friend and my brother will monitor is I'm hit again. Then, there's the fact that I backpack and hike a lot. I frequently find myself in areas with no phone coverage. Most of those places I can reach someone on the radio. So is in emcomm? I dunno, but it's what I got and it's working for me.

You make a valid point, it's about the skill set of the operator and being able to adapt and overcome technical and physical challenges. It's not about the whackerism, it's about skills. There is absolutely nothing wrong with what you do, and in fact, this IMO, should be the focus of amateur radio: as is stated in part 97: being a better technically skilled operator and advancing the art of radio communication. The fact that you are self-sufficient in your operations is for sure a plus, and yes, if the big one shook- provided your equipment survives, no doubt you would be able to communicate with others. No doubt you would step up and relay to someone like me on the East coast what is going down in your neighborhood and that you need help. No doubt I or someone else would relay said info to the appropriate AHJ to get you added to the list.

None of this requires badges, ID cards, showing up at gov locations not requested, light bars, illicitly programmed trunking radios, et al. What you describe is the true amateur spirit: and what I call the "anti-whacker". Good job. Now if we could just get the ARRL to be on board with your plan...

 

[drdispatch]

It's a shame that there are those out there that make a bad name for the rest. I really believe that the majority of us are passionate, conscientious, and "know our place" in the grand scheme of things. My county's group (which is RACES, not ARES, FWIW) requires several FEMA ICS courses as a prerequisite, as well as background checks. We've had a good relationship with the city and county EM's for decades. The whole reason I got into ham radio in the beginning (30+ years ago) was for SKYWARN storm spotting and EMCOMM / AUXCOMM. We've got people with a lot of varied skill sets. And we have contributed in a positive manner to many events in our area.

 

[VA3WEX]

I know everyone has their idea about what ham radio is and what it does. But when I think of emergency communications I think of it more for me personally. I live in an earthquake prone area and at least twice in the last thirty years we've had earthquakes that took out my phone for days. So now I have a 40 meter frequency that my friend and my brother will monitor is I'm hit again. Then, there's the fact that I backpack and hike a lot. I frequently find myself in areas with no phone coverage. Most of those places I can reach someone on the radio. So is in emcomm? I dunno, but it's what I got and it's working for me.

Much of my city lost power a year ago, and sort of instinctively I tried our club repeater the first day (and the next couple of days) to find that many of us were there, discussing who had power and who didn't, what major intersections had lights out or lights working, which gas stations were working and which weren't, etc. Good hints and tips being passed, information that could be shared with non-ham family and friends. That, too, is not "emcomm" is traditionally envisioned, more like community support or something. But valuable!

 

[drdispatch]

Much of my city lost power a year ago, and sort of instinctively I tried our club repeater the first day (and the next couple of days) to find that many of us were there, discussing who had power and who didn't, what major intersections had lights out or lights working, which gas stations were working and which weren't, etc. Good hints and tips being passed, information that could be shared with non-ham family and friends. That, too, is not "emcomm" is traditionally envisioned, more like community support or something. But valuable!

"Ham radio: The original social media" ?

 

[KK6HRW]

Did NOAA Weather Radio play a role in warning of the fire on Maui and is it now broadcasting information relative to the recovery efforts? (Maui is served by Station WWG75, broadcasting on frequency 162.4 MHz at 300 watts).

If any warnings were broadcast, was Specific Area Message Encoding (SAME) code 015009 sent out to enable automatic receiver ‘unmuting’?

 

[dlwtrunked]

Many EMA functions where hams showed up and started their own nets. When they did this, information was getting misguided and facts were not correct.
ICS is not in their skill set..
"I'm grandfathered in, Been passin' traffic since I was a kid, I don't need anybody telling me how to do it"

At a recent government drill, the officials learned of a message from the amateur operators because they missed it on the teletype when the hams caught it on the ham backup circuit between jurisdictions. I am truly amazed at the number of anti-aham posts here with mythical stories and praise of the professionals. A well trained hams is on par--there is no magical knowledge.

 

[mmckenna]

A well trained hams is on par--there is no magical knowledge.

I partially agree.
-well-trained-ham- is the key. Ham radio has its place. It's not some random hobbyist with a radio showing up. It's weeks, months, years of training, drilling, practicing, and in some cases, background checks.
Same with the professionals.

But getting hams 'well trained' seems to be a challenge in some areas. It's difficult to put a ton of requirements on volunteers. Relying on volunteers in a disaster, when they, themselves, are impacted, is a challenge. Passing a 35 question multiple choice test and buying a $100 radio isn't enough. There's a lot more required to be useful in an emergency.

There is some 'magical knowledge' when it comes to the emergency management skills. It comes from doing the job, having the right connections, the right resources, things that volunteers likely won't have. Some of that magical knowledge doesn't include radios, it includes skills that are not radio related.

There's a lot of instances where ham radio has filled in where needed.
There's a lot of instances where ham radio has not been up to the challenge where needed.

I think what annoys a lot of us that work in the industry is the attitude of the ARRL, which seems to be:
-All public safety radio systems are crap and will fail the first time the wind blows.
-All public safety radio techs are useless slobs that can't fix their own gear.
-Hams are the one that will actually save the day when everyone else runs away.
-All public safety professionals can be easily replaced by someone with minimal training and experience.

Let's be totally honest here: Ham radio operators are good at operating a two way radio. That's it. There is nothing about the hobby that prepares hams to step in to a major disaster and fill in for public safety professionals. Radio communications is only one of the skills required by professionals, even 911 dispatchers have a ton of responsibilities beyond talking on the radio.

Ham radio can have its place, but its never going to be 'random dude walking in with their HT' and taking over for the professionals, as the 'when all else fails' seems to suggest. It's going to be hams in an auxiliary role, helping and working alongside others.

And I don't think there is anything that hams could have done to prevent this from happening. There's a lot more to this disaster than communications. If hams could have saved the day, why didn't they?