Yosemite/Wawona fire jurisdiction or frequencies?

[clovisb31]

Does anyone know which specific agencies are working this "Washburn" fire inside YNP, specifically the Wawona area?
YNP Fire Dept?
NP Service Fire Dept.?
NIFC channels ?
Is CalFire assisting?

This fire has the potential to get really out of control like the Creek fire in SNF in 2021. Sure hope not. But would be interested in following the
progress of the fire fighting efforts.
OK, so I got the ball rolling with the questions...anybody care to post known frequencies?
73.

 

[Engine104]

I'm in L.A. and don't have the frequencies, but if you can stream, the Central Sierra Area Tactical Feed under Mariposa Co is very active right now..
https://www.broadcastify.com/listen/ctid/204 I am listening at work on 5-0 Radio on my phone.

NP, YNP, CalFire, USFS all on scene.

 

[norcalscan]

That Central Sierra feed is tied into the local fire intel and has command and the air tactics. Expect it to be as accurate as possible.

Command so far has been park repeater system but there is a plan in place for a NIFC solution of some sort, unknown timing. Without any frequency competition the bulk of the constellation should be somewhere in the standard NIFC 1-12 instead of having to grab some random fed freq typical of a busier fire season. The entire fire can currently be covered by a single portable repeater on Wawona Point at the existing RF site, including at least 24-48hr worth of additional spread. Maybe a 2nd on White Chief Mtn looking at the latest 1030pm IR perimeter going further east. We'll see if they keep it simple or if the command team is building a larger containment box that we aren't privy to, then COML will build out for the box, not the current perimeter. Without a public 205, the NIFC commands should be be scanned for radio tests until this thing gets put to bed or park repeaters go silent.

Air Tactics FM 166.6125
Air/Ground Command 167.0625
Air/Ground Tactical 169.2875
Rotor Victor (and TFR) 118.575
Helibase Deck 168.350

An additional Air Tactics FM 167.8125 was ordered but not sure if it's put in use yet, will replace existing Air Tactics (rare, but possible), or supplement existing air tactics as an air command between ATGS, Lead, Helco and Intel ship, (even more rare on this size of a fire, but with the airspace complexity, I wouldn't put it past them).

 

[norcalscan]

Commands appear to be on a NIFC system now. All traffic on NIFC Command 1, with NIFC Cmd's 9 and 10 on deck for expansion if needed.

Because The Database (pauses and bows down prostrate) is absolutely pathetic when it comes to advanced fire monitoring, you will not find NIFC Commands 9 or 10. Cmd9 is 170.0125 and Cmd10 is 170.4125.

Also rotor vic moved to 132.725 with TFR clearance staying on 118.575.

 

[es93546]

Commands appear to be on a NIFC system now. All traffic on NIFC Command 1, with NIFC Cmd's 9 and 10 on deck for expansion if needed.

Because The Database (pauses and bows down prostrate) is absolutely pathetic when it comes to advanced fire monitoring, you will not find NIFC Commands 9 or 10. Cmd9 is 170.0125 and Cmd10 is 170.4125.

Also rotor vic moved to 132.725 with TFR clearance staying on 118.575.

I made a submission to have Commands 8-12 listed, but it was ignored or hasn't been acted on in a couple of months. The argument for not listing it, when I made previous submissions was those channels were already in the database elsewhere in the NIFOG listings. Of course there is no reference to Commands 8-12 being in the NIFOG so that stance is not very helpful. I've reached the frustration stage for this website.

 

[norcalscan]

The argument for not listing it, when I made previous submissions was those channels were already in the database elsewhere

I'm right there with you Ex. It's absurd and a HUGE loss to the citizens of California and others in high fire-prone areas who have "zip-code" scanners who entered their zip code and selected fire, and those that even found and selected "NIFC" in their programming. They won't hear a thing. There might be a wiki post somewhere deep, but at first glance I didn't see it, and even if it was, if I can't find the wiki at a glance as a website creator since 1996, IT admin of 20 years, and an authoritative california fire radio intel source/geek for 25 years (humble brag only to prove a freaking dang point here), ain't nobody finding it.

Home -> Database -> ignore the huge temptation to click on your state and instead click on Nationwide Frequencies -> click on National Interagency Fire Center....wait, shoot, NIFC Command 8-12 aren't in the NIFC section...go back...-> click National Interoperability instead, and realize that mess of VHF Federal Incident Response Interoperability channels are also called NIFC Commands 8-12.

And to the DB mods who whine about duplicate freqs and stuff between NIFC vs whatever these NIFOG IR channels are, and "if we dupe the freqs then it makes people's scanners scan longer" then congratulations, you force everyone to load up and scan all 156 National Interoperability channels in order to get the 6 fire command frequencies that directly impact US citizens multiple times a month.

Ex, I think this hazy IPA just helped me find a submission work-around (besides helping me with this rant... )

 

[es93546]

I'm right there with you Ex. It's absurd and a HUGE loss to the citizens of California and others in high fire-prone areas who have "zip-code" scanners who entered their zip code and selected fire, and those that even found and selected "NIFC" in their programming. They won't hear a thing. There might be a wiki post somewhere deep, but at first glance I didn't see it, and even if it was, if I can't find the wiki at a glance as a website creator since 1996, IT admin of 20 years, and an authoritative california fire radio intel source/geek for 25 years (humble brag only to prove a freaking dang point here), ain't nobody finding it.

Home -> Database -> ignore the huge temptation to click on your state and instead click on Nationwide Frequencies -> click on National Interagency Fire Center....wait, shoot, NIFC Command 8-12 aren't in the NIFC section...go back...-> click National Interoperability instead, and realize that mess of VHF Federal Incident Response Interoperability channels are also called NIFC Commands 8-12.

And to the DB mods who whine about duplicate freqs and stuff between NIFC vs whatever these NIFOG IR channels are, and "if we dupe the freqs then it makes people's scanners scan longer" then congratulations, you force everyone to load up and scan all 156 National Interoperability channels in order to get the 6 fire command frequencies that directly impact US citizens multiple times a month.

Ex, I think this hazy IPA just helped me find a submission work-around (besides helping me with this rant... )

Yup, an evaluation of the effects of some admins policies doesn't seem to govern. I've had a years long battle with the BLM being listed in agreement with the agency's organization. Some stuff there is just made up to fit one admin's view of the agency, which doesn't match reality. I'm about ready to quit once again. for those reasons and some people's quick actions to use the ad hominem.

 

[Progline]

That Central Sierra feed is tied into the local fire intel and has command and the air tactics. Expect it to be as accurate as possible.

Command so far has been park repeater system but there is a plan in place for a NIFC solution of some sort, unknown timing. Without any frequency competition the bulk of the constellation should be somewhere in the standard NIFC 1-12 instead of having to grab some random fed freq typical of a busier fire season. The entire fire can currently be covered by a single portable repeater on Wawona Point at the existing RF site, including at least 24-48hr worth of additional spread. Maybe a 2nd on White Chief Mtn looking at the latest 1030pm IR perimeter going further east. We'll see if they keep it simple or if the command team is building a larger containment box that we aren't privy to, then COML will build out for the box, not the current perimeter. Without a public 205, the NIFC commands should be be scanned for radio tests until this thing gets put to bed or park repeaters go silent.

Air Tactics FM 166.6125
Air/Ground Command 167.0625
Air/Ground Tactical 169.2875
Rotor Victor (and TFR) 118.575
Helibase Deck 168.350

An additional Air Tactics FM 167.8125 was ordered but not sure if it's put in use yet, will replace existing Air Tactics (rare, but possible), or supplement existing air tactics as an air command between ATGS, Lead, Helco and Intel ship, (even more rare on this size of a fire, but with the airspace complexity, I wouldn't put it past them).

Norcalscan, if you are in contact with the Central Sierra Feed Provider, can you ask that they add YNP Park and/or Fire Nets to their feed on a permanent basis? Broadcastify recently lost the only other feed that provided coverage for the park.

 

[officer_415]

@norcalscan and @es93546, where would you like to see NIFC Command 8-12 listed? We can't duplicate frequencies, but we can certainly link people to the appropriate page.

You are both a wealth of knowledge and I definitely value your contributions. As a user I've had my own disagreements with DB admins in the past, so I understand your frustration.

 

[norcalscan]

@norcalscan and @es93546, where would you like to see NIFC Command 8-12 listed? We can't duplicate frequencies, but we can certainly link people to the appropriate page.

Under NIFC, because they are indeed not duplicate frequencies. The VHF IR freqs are hard coded 167.9 in the DB, as they should be, which means everyone's scanners will never hear NIFC 8-12, because when they're used as NIFC 8-12 they are on multiple tones, assigned per incident (but never assigned 167.9) I'm not talking about links or wiki's or notes on the DB page. I'm talking about every scanner in the united states does not have NIFC Cmd 8-12 in any type of download, pre-program, or export etc. And I won't start the tangent regarding the naming of the "IR" alpha tags, because they're never used as that, or have been. I thought the DB was for actually heard frequencies, not just something listed from a directory with some arcane alpha tag that has never been referred in reality as that alpha, ever, and won't be outside of another multi-state crisis like Katrina. (whispers, and even then it'll be referred to as NIFC... because that's what the entire nation's public response knows them by)

In many state emergency radio cache, etc, their programming has both IR and NIFC. One in the Fed NIFOG zone, the other in a NIFC zone or Natl Fire zone, etc. Both are used programmed appropriately, one labeled IR and one labeled NIFC, with different tone settings etc.

They. Aren't. Duplicates.

If they are duplicates, then we should only have one single entry in the DB of each channel in the VHF federal band plan, right? 169.9875 should be listed once and only once. Despite it potentially being used by BLM in Idaho as a tac, Fish and Wildlife in Florida, and USFS in the northeast.

Thanks Mods and Admins for all you do. I hope you know I'm not yelling at you. I'm shaking my fist at The System and The Rules trying to fit a square peg in a circle hole and The System keeps throwing out the square peg because all we got around here are circle holes...

 

[officer_415]

Okay. I can’t edit the NIFC page because I’m only a CA admin, but I’ll make a submission and see what happens.

 

[es93546]

Under NIFC, because they are indeed not duplicate frequencies. The VHF IR freqs are hard coded 167.9 in the DB, as they should be, which means everyone's scanners will never hear NIFC 8-12, because when they're used as NIFC 8-12 they are on multiple tones, assigned per incident (but never assigned 167.9) I'm not talking about links or wiki's or notes on the DB page. I'm talking about every scanner in the united states does not have NIFC Cmd 8-12 in any type of download, pre-program, or export etc. And I won't start the tangent regarding the naming of the "IR" alpha tags, because they're never used as that, or have been. I thought the DB was for actually heard frequencies, not just something listed from a directory with some arcane alpha tag that has never been referred in reality as that alpha, ever, and won't be outside of another multi-state crisis like Katrina. (whispers, and even then it'll be referred to as NIFC... because that's what the entire nation's public response knows them by)

In many state emergency radio cache, etc, their programming has both IR and NIFC. One in the Fed NIFOG zone, the other in a NIFC zone or Natl Fire zone, etc. Both are used programmed appropriately, one labeled IR and one labeled NIFC, with different tone settings etc.

They. Aren't. Duplicates.

If they are duplicates, then we should only have one single entry in the DB of each channel in the VHF federal band plan, right? 169.9875 should be listed once and only once. Despite it potentially being used by BLM in Idaho as a tac, Fish and Wildlife in Florida, and USFS in the northeast.

Thanks Mods and Admins for all you do. I hope you know I'm not yelling at you. I'm shaking my fist at The System and The Rules trying to fit a square peg in a circle hole and The System keeps throwing out the square peg because all we got around here are circle holes...

Thanks for carrying on with this. I just don't have the energy anymore.

 

[norcalscan]

Okay. I can’t edit the NIFC page because I’m only a CA admin, but I’ll make a submission and see what happens.

Thanks - I made a submission as well Thursday night... Maybe from another admin it will have some more weight.

 

[es93546]

There are several other areas where the NIFC DB page don't reflect the actual situation. I was not successful with the NIFC CMD 8-12 stuff, which I thought to be the most important, so I just gave up. I have official information, but it does not rank higher than the individual database admin's opinion. They may also get other submissions that differ from the official information, but those submitters often don't have any idea of the big picture of a system. I'm speaking primarily of the UHF link frequencies and the simplex and reversed pairs for the command repeaters.

 

[inigo88]

It’s not considered a duplicate frequency if we have a specific confirmed unique squelch tone.

Per the DB Admin Handbook:

Nationwide frequencies shall not be duplicated on state, county or other agency pages, except when there exists a confirmed local-specific usage with a confirmed squelch tone or mode which varies from the standard nationwide plan, e.g., a MURS frequency confirmed to be used by a specific business at a specific location on a permanent basis, with a unique squelch tone. Notes regarding specific local usage with either carrier squelch or standard nationwide squelch may be placed in the collaboration Wiki for the locality.

Database Administrator Handbook Live Version - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

Is it CSQ or 156.7 PL? Even if it’s CSQ I’d argue it warrants an exception per the state or multi section here:

In general, a frequency with a given usage shall never be entered more than once in the database. Exceptions may be made in limited cases where there is region-specific usage information for a frequency that is otherwise a “wide area” use frequency. Do not duplicate “wide area” use frequencies on multiple county pages.

What you guys are describing is precisely this. Please PM @mlangeveld and myself the details including the submission # and who rejected and we’ll elevate it up the chain.

 

[officer_415]

I made a submission to add NIFC Command 8-12 (CSQ since they can use various tones), re-number NIFC Tac 4/5/6 to Tac 5/6/7 (there is currently no Tac 4), and change the alpha tags from "NIRSC" to "NIFC". Let's see what happens, and we can go from there.

 

[es93546]

I've kept no record of my submissions and don't care to look them up in my records, if they are still there.

 

[inigo88]

I've kept no record of my submissions and don't care to look them up in my records, if they are still there.

No worries, I meant if you guys had any still open or recently rejected, we could look them up and better understand the reason given.

 

[officer_415]

The NIFC page has been updated.