BCD436hp Voice Dropouts

[pingdew]

I noticed the thread on switching NFM to FM for a P25 Trunked System you monitor. So I went ahead and ran 1/2 hour on both settings, recorded and then compared them. I'll do more and it's early but I'm pretty sure the FM setting works better. It seems less likely to drop the beginning of transmission. I did this on MPSCS (Michigan) for Van Buren County.

The next thing I'd like to start trying to improve is the following:
As an example, a voice transmission starts and the dispatcher will pause for a moment (voice goes silent) and then starts talking again. A lot of times the BCD436hp will miss anywhere from the beginning of the first word to as much as 3 words. I noticed this also happens on conventional frequencies as well (Non P25 systems).

What settings on the scanner should I start fiddling with to help improve this? What settings for P25 and what settings would I mess within the conventional channels settings.

It's very similar to VOX (I have no idea if the scanner acts this way) but it's going silent and then it waits for a trigger of the human voice but it's a bit late opening the "switch" that lets that voice come through.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Voyager]

The Channel Delay setting is what you want to increase. BUT, if it's starting to scan, they are not simply not talking, but have unkeyed. The Channel Delay will help.

 

[ofd8001]

You got any type of priority scanning going on (Weather, priority channel, etc.)? If this happens every 2-3 seconds, then it's probably the scanner checking for priority activity.

 

[pingdew]

ofd8001 -
Bingo! I never imagined it couldn't spot check a channel in the background without interrupting its own audio output. Disappointing but I'm learning. It was weather priority being set. Thanks for your help.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MStep]

ofd8001 -
Bingo! I never imagined it couldn't spot check a channel in the background without interrupting its own audio output. Disappointing but I'm learning. It was weather priority being set. Thanks for your help.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The 436/536 priority function is one of the best implementations of that function that I have ever seen in a trunked scanner. I would suggest that you experiment with DND (Do-Not-Disturb) mode in priority first and go from there.

Without getting too involved, you should also understand that "trunked priority" operates completely independently of the radio's main priority function.

 

[ofd8001]

ofd8001 -
I never imagined it couldn't spot check a channel in the background without interrupting its own audio output. Disappointing but I'm learning.

Unfortunately this is "the nature of the best". Even the radios we used to use in the fire department would do this. It wasn't as noticeable as the radio checked the priority channel a little more frequently and took less time to do so. Still, you could hear it happen, especially when tones were going out.

In theory a radio or scanner could be made that would do what you and others want - checking priority in the background. It would require a second receiving circuit, but that would drive up the cost of the radio/scanner.

 

[Voyager]

Unfortunately this is "the nature of the best". Even the radios we used to use in the fire department would do this. It wasn't as noticeable as the radio checked the priority channel a little more frequently and took less time to do so. Still, you could hear it happen, especially when tones were going out.

Apples and oranges. The WX Priority takes longer to decode than simple channel Priority activity checks which is what you're talking about. It's not as noticeable on the scanner, either.

 

[MStep]

Apples and oranges. The WX Priority takes longer to decode than simple channel Priority activity checks which is what you're talking about. It's not as noticeable on the scanner, either.

And also take into consideration that unlike other priority functions, WX Priority does not offer DND mode.

 

[ofd8001]

Apples and oranges. The WX Priority takes longer to decode than simple channel Priority activity checks which is what you're talking about. It's not as noticeable on the scanner, either.

The point was that because scanners and radios have but one receiver. As such they cannot scan a priority frequency in the background. There will be some distruption of a non-priority frequency conversation so that scanners and radios can check for activity on the priority frequency.

 

[Voyager]

I understand that. I was replying to the point that commercial radios have shorter sampling gaps. But, commercial radios don't have Weather Priority. The Channel Priority gaps on the 436 are much shorter than the Weather Priority gaps - especially if you only have one or two priority channels set like you would in commercial radios

 

[pingdew]

Good discussion.
1) The Wx priority is indeed just too disruptive. When the average transmit is either very few words or containing only concise priority information (such as an address) and you often lose a few words of a transmission it really makes it a "use only when needed" feature. Also, I strongly suspect it is much more than just a few words and many times struggles to regain the Tx after the priority interrupt. However, I do understand what they are up against and would need to produce a product that could hold two feeds.

2) Much more disappointing is priority for conventional channels. You hop in your car for a 3 county drive. In each of those counties you have a couple conventional channels tagged as priority. Once your drive takes you far enough to shut down (using a QK or GPS) the county you started in . . . Bam! "Priority Channel Not Found" and conventional priority scanning becomes disabled. Your only out is to remember what those priority channels were, find them and then remove their priority flag.

This is just a programming issue. Anytime a conventional channel is removed from active scanning (via a QK or Avoid) and it is tagged as a priority channel it should get an invisible flag that removes it from the conventional priority channel list. This would happen in the background unknown to the scanner owner. Then only active convention channels flagged as priority would be polled during scanning. It's very frustrating and just a programming issue. It could be fixed in a firmware update.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MStep]

2) Much more disappointing is priority for conventional channels. You hop in your car for a 3 county drive. In each of those counties you have a couple conventional channels tagged as priority. Once your drive takes you far enough to shut down (using a QK or GPS) the county you started in . . . Bam! "Priority Channel Not Found" and conventional priority scanning becomes disabled. Your only out is to remember what those priority channels were, find them and then remove their priority flag.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not sure on your # 2. If all counties have some conventional channels programmed as priority, wouldn't the priority function continue to work as you crossed counties (and I assume you are using GPS) ?? If the "Priority Channel Not Found" message does indeed come up, you should be able to reinstate priority in your new country just by turning it back on again. You did say you have conventional priority channels in each of your 3 counties, correct?

In this case, you should not have to remove any priority flags.

The real question here should be does the old list drop out before the new list comes up? That could cause the "Priority Channel Not Found" message to appear, in which case reactivating priority should work fine.

If, however, the new list locks in before the old list drops out, then the message should NOT appear, and the priority function should remain enabled on it's own.

Anybody for a road test ???

 

[pingdew]

I apologize I just assumed it would happen in GPS mode. I haven't tested it yet. However it does happen with QK's. An example. While actively scanning, you type 1.04 E (Turning that system off). If there is priority conventional channel in that system you get the message and conventional channel priority scanning is disabled once you press a key. The software should be programmed to leave the channel flagged as a priority channel but just ignore it as a priority channel while you have that QK off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[drdispatch]

I don't know if this helps, but I have a FL for my home county and another FL for the "county next door" where I spend a lot of time. I have conventional priority channels set up on each list. I usually "turn on" the other county prior to crossing the county line; after crossing the line I "turn off" the county I left (using Quick Keys). I have never had the scanner present any kind of message.
I use regular priority (not DND), and I have 3 conventional priority channels in my home list and 2 in the other county's list.

 

[MStep]

I apologize I just assumed it would happen in GPS mode. I haven't tested it yet. However it does happen with QK's. An example. While actively scanning, you type 1.04 E (Turning that system off). If there is priority conventional channel in that system you get the message and conventional channel priority scanning is disabled once you press a key. The software should be programmed to leave the channel flagged as a priority channel but just ignore it as a priority channel while you have that QK off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not how it works on the 436/536. The "PRI" function must "see" an active CONVENTIONAL priority channel, otherwise it will display the message. I think that it's good that the message is presented--- in effect it's telling you "Hey, you have priority on for conventional channels, but you don't have any of those channels activated."

And remember "PRI" is only for conventional channels, not trunked talk groups that you have prioritized. See my comments in this thread also:

http://forums.radioreference.com/un...er-displays-priority-scan-no-channel-why.html

By the way, I think Uniden got it exactly right with how the priority channel functions in the radio should work, given the current state of the technology.

 

[pingdew]

Actually it is the way it works.

This seems strange but I most have somehow had a corrupted SD card. I received a new card in the mail, formatted it and copied the files from the original SD to the new one and now I am able to turn off a system (that contains a conventional channel flagged as priority) using a QK and I do NOT get the "priority channel" error I was getting before.

It now works as you'd expect it to work. You can have conventional channels flagged as priority in systems that are disabled via QK and you don't get the error assuming there is at least one conventional channel flagged as priority somewhere that is active.

I'm assuming you can do the same with multiple FLs as well, as an above poster indicated but haven't check it yet on my scanner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk