2013 National Air to Ground Frequencies

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SCPD

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I've completed substantial editing of the wiki page that shows all the nationwide frequencies in the National Incident Radio Support Cache. The most extensive edits are to the air to ground frequency list. Earlier correspondence regarding the development of this list indicated that the list at full build out would include 73 channels. All 73 have now been determined.

To reach the list enter the database and on the first page click the "Nationwide Frequencies" tab above the map. Scroll down and click "National Incident Radio Support Cache."

I also did some minor editing, mostly for clarification, of the text on the other tables of that page. In the coming months I will TRY to make submissions to the database to make it match the wiki listing. I say try because we are already getting some days allowing for more summer like outside activities and at 8,000 feet taking advantage of every one of those days is prudent. We actually started getting these days after March 1st, so doing the research and the edits of the Wiki page have already prevented me getting outside. I want to put 1500 miles on my road bicycle this year and sitting inside typing up RR database submissions won't allow that to happen.

By the way, although at the nearest snow measuring course located on the Sierra crest the April 1st measurement shows 82% of the average water content in the snowpack for the date, it was a very wimpy winter. Other snow courses around the state show far less water in the snow, especially those in the southern Sierra. I don't like to make predictions of upcoming fire seasons as we could see more snow and some rain as well as a rainy, humid summer, BUT this could prove to be an interesting fire season.

Did you know that the average fire season has increased by 78 days since 1970? Of the 8 fire seasons where more than 7 million acres burned, 7 have been since 2000. Of those burning more than 8 million acres, all 6 have been in the last 8 years. One factor is the average temperature in the western U.S. has risen 1.5 degrees since 1970. I've forgotten the statistics regarding the 2 fire seasons with more than 9 million acres burned. I think one of them occurred more than 10 years ago, but the stats on the length of the fire season and the increase in the total acres burned, along with the temperature rise gives you some idea of why the Forest Service is developing a climate change strategy. I think the land management agencies in the Department of the Interior are as well.

Also in the works, with the assistance of another fine member here, will be channel plans for the National Parks, National Forests and BLM Districts in California for the wiki. There is some information that will allow adding those to other portions of the western states courtesy of another member. I may be able to bite of chunks of this large task in the upcoming months, but realistically I want to wear out my new bike tires.
 
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aprswatcher

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Thanks for updating the list!
I'll check my old listing and update anything new.
I have a feeling it may be another bad year for forest/wildland fires again in the Western US.

73, Rex
 

hpycmpr

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Exsmokey,
I found this Four Corners Fire Operations Guide-2013 with a color air ground frequency map about 90% of the way down the 4MB PDF document. Sorry they have no page numbers. It agrees with your info. However three pages up is a freq list (Moab Group 15 Monticello Fire) with a different A/G 11, 166.950 in place of 151.310. Perhaps that table and your list are both right and the National list is still a work in progress?
If the link doesn't work Google it by the title above.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...E8pZTy3MoVuEdTQ&bvm=bv.44770516,d.cGE&cad=rja

Steve
 
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nd5y

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I added that to the table. It now shows both 151.31 and 166.95. Hopefully Exsmokey can confirm which one is current and remove the old one.
 

gvranchosbill

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FYI: These A/G Freqs were used in 2011 & 2012 in the GBW (Western Great Basin) and are not on the new list.
166.3125 A/G 2012
166.6875 A/G 2012
168.4375 A/G 2011
171.7875 A/G 2011

Maybe do to the number of fires for the GBW area that these were just random?

However 80% of the A/G freqs i logged during our outbreak of Wildland/Urban Interface Fires most of were on BLM/BIA or USFS Lands are on the list.

151.2200 A/G #04 On the 2013 list is the same as CDF Air to Ground NET that has been the same as far back as i had my first radio in 1971,
i think it was called the Blue or Green Net back then.

This will be nice when all h... breaks out again and trying to write down freqs will be replaced by a Ch#.

Do to the lack of rain so far the burned areas didnt wash away except in one place that closed U.S.395 from the Ray May fire.
Just recently they have been re-seeding the areas by helicopter.
 
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ecps92

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Thanks Smokey, what a load of good info lately.

Slowly adding the Four Corners info to the Wikis under each Agency, Forest etc

Thanks for updating the list!
I'll check my old listing and update anything new.
I have a feeling it may be another bad year for forest/wildland fires again in the Western US.

73, Rex
 

SCPD

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I based my edits based on the very latest data from an official source (who shall remain nameless). Please, please don't use other lists to edit this Wiki table. Just bring it to my attention and I will reconcile. Sometimes I have already reconciled differences prior to showing it in the Wiki. I have means available to me that you don't have.

Often times a local guide is written prior to the final national direction coming out. I think the opposite can be true, but less often. I will try to reconcile between the two possibilities as best I can. When an inconsistency is noted, you should always look at how many sources show on the Wiki table. The local guide may show something different, but if the table shows 2-6 sources then I will probably stick with what the multiple sources show.

I do want to thank yous guys for having such sharp eyes!
 
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gvranchosbill

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I hear what your saying on conflicting info, Local vs Official etc
The current NEVIFOG (Late 2012) handbook is so full of errors that i wonder what will happen if it needs to be put to use. As far as i can tell there are no new updates to this handbook (2013)
Ive checked and re-checked and some critical freq/tone/input data is completely worthless.
Then again some is right on the money.
If the cache radios that would be distributed for emergency use, were used, it would be a costly problem having people scrambling to solve a problem that may have no time to be solved.
Just my 2 cents since i was thinking about it.
Since im not part of any of those agencies i will not get involved.
A small chance that a reason exists for this i wouldn think likely,but then again.
This handbook has Local,State & Federal Law/Fire/Public Works freqs that are on list, maybe it needs to looked at again to see if any of the 2013 A/G freqs are listed and i believe there is and check those.
I will look later i have to go down to Mono County (North) for a while.
gvranchosbill
 

SCPD

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FYI: These A/G Freqs were used in 2011 & 2012 in the GBW (Western Great Basin) and are not on the new list.
166.3125 A/G 2012
166.6875 A/G 2012
168.4375 A/G 2011
171.7875 A/G 2011

Maybe do to the number of fires for the GBW area that these were just random?

However 80% of the A/G freqs i logged during our outbreak of Wildland/Urban Interface Fires most of were on BLM/BIA or USFS Lands are on the list.

151.2200 A/G #04 On the 2013 list is the same as CDF Air to Ground NET that has been the same as far back as i had my first radio in 1971,
i think it was called the Blue or Green Net back then.

This will be nice when all h... breaks out again and trying to write down freqs will be replaced by a Ch#.

Do to the lack of rain so far the burned areas didnt wash away except in one place that closed U.S.395 from the Ray May fire.
Just recently they have been re-seeding the areas by helicopter.

The National Air to Ground table I just edited is not random and it is 2013 information. These frequencies are preassigned for initial attack only and as such local dispatch centers do not have to ask permission for their use. Extended attack incidents use frequencies that are not preassigned and have permission to use them comes from the comm duty officer at NIFC. Each incident comm leader carries a CD showing unused federal frequencies (all federal agencies) for specific areas of the country and selects one or more of these to present to the NIFC duty officer for permission to use. That same frequency may, that year or in subsequent years, come into use by the federal agency it is allocated to and is no longer available for extended attack incident use. Without knowing what the CD shows it may look random, but it is not as some well thought out protocol exists.

You should also note that just because a frequency is used on an incident on the Klamath NF in northern California, for example, doesn't mean it will be available for one on the Sequoia the same year. It could be used by the Bureau of Reclamation (BOR) in the southern San Joaquin valley and not near Happy Camp, California. However, in a subsequent year the BOR might start using it in Eureka precluding its use for a large incident in that area again.

You should also note that not every air to ground frequency is available at every location. For example, air to ground 19 is the same frequency used for the north Forest Net on the Inyo National Forest. Obviously, it can't be used on the Inyo for air to ground. If you look through the list and know some frequencies very well you will find many of these situations. Look at AG25, this frequency is used on both the Stanislaus and Cleveland National Forests in California.

When an incident needs a new air to ground frequency, I'm not sure if the Comm duty office at NIFC can pick from the national list or not. There might not be any local conflicts with some of them and it would seem available. This portion of the new protocol, of which national naming is a part of, is unknown. We all need to observe and report.

151.220 is not an exclusive Cal Fire assignment. It is used all over the country by other state and local agencies. I'm not sure why a national list includes state and local frequencies. Most of those on the list are used in the east, where their use was probably well established prior to the national naming effort of the past 3 years.

We need to listen to how the naming is used. I suspect you will hear something such as "air to ground will be National Air to Ground 13, one six seven dot four two five zero." The naming convention will allow a radio in an aircraft to be dialed quickly and the crew would still verify the frequency. Up to this point I think naming has been inconsistent and a cause for confusion for aviation crews that respond to multiple jurisdictions and areas on a daily basis.
 

SCPD

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Exsmokey,
I found this Four Corners Fire Operations Guide-2013 with a color air ground frequency map about 90% of the way down the 4MB PDF document. Sorry they have no page numbers. It agrees with your info. However three pages up is a freq list (Moab Group 15 Monticello Fire) with a different A/G 11, 166.950 in place of 151.310. Perhaps that table and your list are both right and the National list is still a work in progress?
If the link doesn't work Google it by the title above.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...E8pZTy3MoVuEdTQ&bvm=bv.44770516,d.cGE&cad=rja

Steve

This situation with 166.8500 is an example of something I've said above. This frequency is identified as AG7 from 3 different sources. 154.3100 is shown as AG11 on a source (Pacific Northwest or NW) covering an area that doesn't overlap with the three showing 166.8500 as AG7. AG7 and AG11 aren't going to be the same frequency on the National AG list. I will say that it apears 151.310 is correct for AG11 and that the Four Corners list has a typo. Now that I'm aware of this apparent typo I will probably have a chance this summer to make sure.

If you folks don't mind, I would like to serve as the only editor for this Wiki table.
 

SCPD

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FYI: These A/G Freqs were used in 2011 & 2012 in the GBW (Western Great Basin) and are not on the new list.
166.3125 A/G 2012
166.6875 A/G 2012
168.4375 A/G 2011
171.7875 A/G 2011

Maybe do to the number of fires for the GBW area that these were just random?

However 80% of the A/G freqs i logged during our outbreak of Wildland/Urban Interface Fires most of were on BLM/BIA or USFS Lands are on the list.

None of these four frequencies are on the national list and are likely unique, single incident, assignments where NIFC permission was given. Again, this is not a random occurrence, but the result of strict protocol. After field programmable radios came into use random frequency use caused interference many, many times. In one case some people using a handheld from their home unit in the west was on an assignment in the east and when they transmitted on their home unit net it closed a floodgate on a Tennessee Valley Authority or Army Corps of Engineers dam. The floodgate control had a tone for this control, but by some set of circumstances this was the tone chosen on the handheld. This is partly the reason that the protocol is both well thought out and strict.

Because of the temporary nature of large incident frequency authorizations I don't keep information of them for more than a year. Keeping track of them is not worth the effort.
 

SCPD

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Sounds good to me.

But, keep those observations coming, this is a dynamic situation and I don't anything is written in stone yet. Also, according to the information I've received the VHF AM frequency assignments are made annually. I'm not keeping track of these as closely, but I haven't found that many of them have changed since 2012 and even later in some cases.
 

zerg901

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National Incident Radio Support Cache - The RadioReference Wiki

This is the direct URL to the air to ground database. Took me a long time to find it. Long long time.

Note - the Federal page that has the "Sub Category U" and "Pages" section also has "US Fed Agencies" and "NIFC" under the "Pages" heading. I think I actually ended up going in a circle there. Maybe the Fed Govt info can be subdivided into the Cabinet agencies, and a "All the Rest" heading. Maybe Wikipedia has an entry for US Fed agencies that can be used as a template.

Who - cranky - me?
 

zerg901

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The Temporary Flight Restrictions (TFR) that are typically issued by the FAA for the major wildfires usually include the AM initial attack freq.
 

zerg901

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It might be good to add a note that these freqs might have different uses in different areas. For example - 168.675 is used as Bridger Teton Natl Forest Tac 2 (2013), and A/G 71 in Florida.
 

SCPD

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It might be good to add a note that these freqs might have different uses in different areas. For example - 168.675 is used as Bridger Teton Natl Forest Tac 2 (2013), and A/G 71 in Florida.

This is similar to the tactical frequency set of Cal Fire. They reuse frequencies from other areas as long as they don't interfere with each other. 168.125 which is used as the north forest net on the Inyo National Forest is also Air Ground Channel 19. This channel is used in Utah and Idaho several hundred miles to the east.

A good suggestion zerg, I will add the note soon.
 
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