2025 F-150 Remote Head Options

[tweiss3]

Looks good.

Not sure about the F-150, but the F-250/350/etc. have a tapped off 5 amp ignition switched feed behind the passenger side kick plate.

Might want to check here:

https://www.fordpro.com/en-us/upfit/publications/

Did it have a empty connector, or what did it look like? The BBL was useless, it just spouted specs, but no locations of taps. I have an idea, but its a last ditch effort. I don't want to destroy anything that is sealed.

 

[mmckenna]

Did it have a empty connector, or what did it look like? The BBL was useless, it just spouted specs, but no locations of taps. I have an idea, but its a last ditch effort. I don't want to destroy anything that is sealed.

I looked after I posted that, and didn't see what I was hoping for.
I even went back and looked at 2024 and 2023 model year.

The F-250/350/etc. have pretty detailed documents that were helpful when I've been setting them up. Used to be the F-150's did too.

The circuit was taped off in a bundle. The bundle had a tag that said what each wire was for. Not sure if the F-150's have it, but it's pretty easy to pull that panel off and take look.

If it's not there, the cigarette lighter plugs are usually on the Retained Accessory Power, and tapping off one of those just to drive the ignition sense circuit would be an option.

If yours has the upfitter switch package, you might want to look in the wiring bundle for that under the hood. That usually includes a full time +12v and an ignition switched circuit as well.

 

[tweiss3]

I looked after I posted that, and didn't see what I was hoping for.
I even went back and looked at 2024 and 2023 model year.

The F-250/350/etc. have pretty detailed documents that were helpful when I've been setting them up. Used to be the F-150's did too.

Yea, I noticed they now have a ton less information. There used to be a section that listed acceptable placement of antennas by frequency and power, no longer included.

The circuit was taped off in a bundle. The bundle had a tag that said what each wire was for. Not sure if the F-150's have it, but it's pretty easy to pull that panel off and take look.

I'll look again, but I didn't see that when I was digging around. I don't think I have any wiring marked at upfitter, but I could have missed it, now that there are like 35 different computers in the truck.

If it's not there, the cigarette lighter plugs are usually on the Retained Accessory Power, and tapping off one of those just to drive the ignition sense circuit would be an option.

That was my last ditch effort. I have already verified it's accessory/ignition switched. I am waiting to see if I can find an alternative, but I bet I can't. Now that I think about it, I should have an easier (closer) location I can use, just have to verify that it is ignition switched.

 

[mmckenna]

Good luck.

If you find something, let me know. I checked, and the Super Duty trucks still have the documentation up, not that it will help.

 

[tweiss3]

Alright, now I'm in the troubleshooting phase. Previous installation had single ignition sense at the KCH20 head. New install now has an ignition sense bus, with connection to both decks. No change in code plug, but I did notice that the "off" voltage is 1.3v and "on" voltage is 13.3v to ignition sense. I checked, it's getting to both decks. Is this a problem that it doesn't drop to 0v?

@kd4efm @mmckenna

Did I miss something in the code plug? It now shuts off every 10 minutes after manual power up with the button. Is there something I can put online of the ignition sense bus that would zero it when off?

 

[mmckenna]

Alright, now I'm in the troubleshooting phase. Previous installation had single ignition sense at the KCH20 head. New install now has an ignition sense bus, with connection to both decks. No change in code plug, but I did notice that the "off" voltage is 1.3v and "on" voltage is 13.3v to ignition sense. I checked, it's getting to both decks. Is this a problem that it doesn't drop to 0v?

@kd4efm @mmckenna

Did I miss something in the code plug? It now shuts off every 10 minutes after manual power up with the button. Is there something I can put online of the ignition sense bus that would zero it when off?

No idea. I'd be interested to hear more about this.
So, you are saying that the ignition sense circuit you pulled off the truck doesn't drop to 0 volts? Where are you connected?

I had an old TK-7180 that would do something similar. Radio was set up for ignition sense with the internal timer set for 30 minutes. I'd start the truck, the radio would turn on and run fine for 30 minutes, and then start giving me the pre-warning for ignition shutdown. Then the radio would shut down, but immediately power back up and run fine for hours.
I ~think~ it was a firmware issue, if I recall correctly.

 

[tweiss3]

I had a similar situation in my past truck, except it only did it if I used the remote start, never figured out why that was the case.

Now that I have had more time to think, I need to go back and double check. I remember when I was finding the issue where water got into the VHF deck that fried the KRK15 and the BT/GPS board, and was checking voltages, that 1.5v was still running through all decks.

I need to pull the ignition sense bus fuses to verify that there is greater than 0 volts on that line, or if its a back feed from the RF decks. If the latter, I have some troubleshooting to do.

I did flash firmware to 5.13 because of a mismatch of newer coming on the HHCH, I can't remember what I had on there before. I only recalled because I had to match firmware on the decks in my other install when I swapped to the 20R control head (those decks had 5.10), I don't usually update unless there is a reason.

 

[tweiss3]

@mmckenna

I found the antenna information. Its in the owners manual, buried in the back with the the 50 pages of legal disclosures.



I only found it because I was trying to find the published height so I could put a height warning sticker somewhere for the wife just in case she went to one of the big cities. I feel better now that I found it. Position 1 is kind of funny, but I guess it means that an HF antenna on a bed rail is acceptable. I wasn't going to install HF, as I used it approximately 2 times in 5 years, and my space constraints, I see no reason to spend the time and money.

I knew they used to publish this, just wasn't sure where.

Anyways, tomorrow's troubleshooting while the turkey is smoking involves double checking on the ignition sense (possible back feeding voltage) and firmware updates.

 

[mmckenna]

I think position 1 was for the HF antennas mounted on the trailer hitch, not on the bed rail.

 

[tweiss3]

I think position 1 was for the HF antennas mounted on the trailer hitch, not on the bed rail.

That makes more sense, but less at the same time. Is the trailer hitch a big mounting location for HF? Everything I've ever read or seen was bed rail, because the hitch is a terrible place with no meat underneath it.


Anyways, a frustrating update. I did get back at the truck with the multi-meter and laptop. First, I checked voltage with the fuses pulled for the ignition sense bus. I got zero volts, this was good news. I then checked each lead to the RF decks. The UHF deck had some voltage (0.875v), while VHF had no voltage. I also updated firmware with no change.

Secondly, while Black Friday people watching, I couldn't get the mobile relay to work. After a few times activating it and having zero luck, I gave up and moved along. After testing with the multimeter, updating firmware and verifying the programming for the mobile relay harness, I think I'm down to a physical problem with the VHF deck, which is Deck 1. When turning the car on and listening closely, I think I hear the startup 1ms beep out of the unselected deck speaker, indicating the UHF deck (#2) probably booting up, but not the primary deck that controls power to the control head.

The VHF deck it the one that got water in it and fried the KRK15 and the BT/GPS board. I suspect that there is also unseen water damage, or physical damage to the DB25, and the ignition sense wire is in circle of damage. Next step is to pull the deck out and crack it open to inspect for this previously unknown damage, but that's going to have to wait a few weeks. I have been successful in disabling the shutdown timer by holding the power on button till it powers up, so that's the work around. I'm guessing I may have to send the VHF deck our for repair, which I'm sure won't be cheap.

 

[DeoVindice]

For what it's worth, I have heard of similar issues with Viking multideck installations (same hardware) when ignition sense is run to both decks. The general consensus was to use a KCT-72 and supply ignition sense to the CH only.

I encountered some trouble while running a multideck VM7000 without ignition sense as well (mispacked order and was waiting on cables). The two decks weren't in the same power state. Once parts arrived and ignition sense was run to the head, all problems went away.

 

[tweiss3]

For what it's worth, I have heard of similar issues with Viking multideck installations (same hardware) when ignition sense is run to both decks. The general consensus was to use a KCT-72 and supply ignition sense to the CH only.

I encountered some trouble while running a multideck VM7000 without ignition sense as well (mispacked order and was waiting on cables). The two decks weren't in the same power state. Once parts arrived and ignition sense was run to the head, all problems went away.

I agree that would be the option, but that can only be installed on a KCH19 or KCH20 head. In this case I'm using the KCH21 HHCH, which leaves me with no other option but to ignition sense from the decks themselves. I had odd results on a different set of decks, and never got around to swapping into the KCT-72 I had sitting around. You would think that ignition sense could be shared from a single deck since all the decks are connected......

 

[mmckenna]

That makes more sense, but less at the same time. Is the trailer hitch a big mounting location for HF?

For the hams it seems to be. Anything but drill a hole and mount a proper antenna. I can make sense of that if it's a tall HF whip.

Everything I've ever read or seen was bed rail, because the hitch is a terrible place with no meat underneath it.

It's probably not about what's best, more about what customers do.

 

[tweiss3]

The general consensus was to use a KCT-72 and supply ignition sense to the CH only.

Odd question. With the KCT-72, does it matter which "head" gets the ignition sense? Would it work off "head 2"?

I now have a spare KCH19 sitting on the shelf, I could perhaps mount it next to the decks with a 3' cable, and add it as the second head, disconnect the speaker and have a secondary spot for testing/programming/ignition without being in the drivers seat.

 

[DeoVindice]

I agree that would be the option, but that can only be installed on a KCH19 or KCH20 head. In this case I'm using the KCH21 HHCH, which leaves me with no other option but to ignition sense from the decks themselves. I had odd results on a different set of decks, and never got around to swapping into the KCT-72 I had sitting around. You would think that ignition sense could be shared from a single deck since all the decks are connected......

That's what I get for posting pre-coffee, I'd even previously seen your KCH-21 photo.

Regarding a second head, here's the relevant FUNC manual page: