380-mhz DOD TRS notes

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Wilrobnson

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I thought the sysID had to be unique?

With the introduction of Type II, the System ID was also introduced. This is a 4 digit identifier that is unique to each trunking system. The purpose of the System ID is to allow radios to operate only on that specific system, and to identify each system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Type_II

Not that that makes a lot of sense, since we're dealing with an sysID of 14C here ;)

There's apparently a way to reverse-engineer the callsign from the sysID, if I'm reading this mess of mathematics properly:

http://ftp.tiaonline.org/tr-8/tr815/Public/WACNguide010406.doc

...but I'm more than likely mistaken. I saw math formulas and went cross-eyed.

So could this system be one of the Smartzone OmniLink ones? I know little about that stuff, except that King County/Sno County/ValleyComm/Seattle/Tacoma/Puyallup are apparently going to go that route.

/rambling
 

Wilrobnson

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Wilrobnson said:
380.075 Seems to be the primary or Simulcast control for the Fort Lewis cell; it's located at Madigan.

385.3125 control channel (site 02?) is coming from across the water, or McNeil Island...It's 99-100% in Steilacoom.
I need to correct myself here.

380.075 is the Fort Lewis primary control channel/site (site 001), but it's not at Madigan; I confirmed that today.

385.3125 is one of the DOD/Navy system control channels; it IS site 02; but that's an example of one of the 'recycled' site numbers. It's located somewhere near Port Orchard, I believe.
 

freqhopping

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Wilrobnson said:
Not really, besides these are not Mot Type II systems.

Not that that makes a lot of sense, since we're dealing with an sysID of 14C here ;)
There's apparently a way to reverse-engineer the callsign from the sysID, if I'm reading this mess of mathematics properly:
http://ftp.tiaonline.org/tr-8/tr815/Public/WACNguide010406.doc
...but I'm more than likely mistaken. I saw math formulas and went cross-eyed.
The system ID and WACN are not one in the same. The WACN is a coded callsign. However, all of these systems are using the Motorola default WACN of BEE00. None of the Motorola P25 systems I know of are using a WACN other than the default.

The main system in my area has a WACN of 580A0 which = JNCR (Joint National Capital Region). Another system WACN is 1B5C8 =DOD. These are M/A Com systems.
 

Wilrobnson

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freqhopping said:
Not really, besides these are not Mot Type II systems.

The system ID and WACN are not one in the same. The WACN is a coded callsign. However, all of these systems are using the Motorola default WACN of BEE00. None of the Motorola P25 systems I know of are using a WACN other than the default.

The main system in my area has a WACN of 580A0 which = JNCR (Joint National Capital Region). Another system WACN is 1B5C8 =DOD. These are M/A Com systems.
Yeah, well now I'm completely confused ;)

Can't we just call the differing categories "US Army Washington State", "US Navy/USMC Washington State", etc?
 

commstar

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Or just refer to them as Surf (navy) and Turf (army)......Ok I'll put the joke down and step away, sorry.

Perhaps just refer to them as Grey (USN) Blue (USMC) and Green (USAR) systems...until their true names become known....
 

olowy

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n7ryy said:
Has anyone been able to track the Fort Lewis 380 system with a 396. When I was up at Puyallup Ham Fair last month I had absolutely no luck tracking this system either in trunk mode or listening to it conventionally. The talkgroups and frequencies I was monitoring were not encrypted, but I still only got a digital blip and occasionally a fraction of a word. I tried turning on and off Digital AGC and changing the P25 setting, with still no luck. Chris was up there with his scanner (don't remember which one and he was tracking with no issues). I did apply the new update last night so I will have to make a trip up there and try it again.
Thanks
Jeremy
I have had the exact same issue. :( Did the update help?
 

commstar

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Pacmers

So, is this part of the same system?

FROM: http://www.caci.com/pacmers/about.shtml

PACMERS Mission Statement
Implement a non-tactical, trunked, land mobile radio (LMR) system in support of Commander, Pacific Command and other Department of Defense (DoD) and non-DoD federal agencies in the Pacific Command (PACOM) area of responsibility. The PACMERS supports interoperability between DoD, other federal, state and city agencies that use LMR systems in the Pacific Region.

The tragic events of September 11, 2001 emphasized effective emergency communications as a key element in reducing the loss of life in any disaster or threat to public safety. DoD emergency services and other federal, state and city agencies involved in public safety and Homeland Security need a coordinated response that utilizes communications resources in the most effective manner. In order to accomplish this they must have access to a system that gives them the ability to communicate quickly, clearly and seamlessly.

The Pacific Mobile Emergency Radio System (PACMERS) is the program directed by the United States Pacific Command (USPACOM) that establishes a Land Mobile Radio (LMR) system in Hawaii. PACMERS is a system borne out of a requirement to save lives. This system allows emergency medical service providers, fire and police to communicate using interoperable radios. During accidents and disasters emergency personnel in Hawaii will need enhanced interoperable communications in order to provide a rapid response.

The PACMERS wide-area trunking system is a fully integrated interoperable radio system that meets the National Telecommunications Information Agency (NTIA) mandate for narrow band operation for military/federal agencies. PACMERS also provides a Project 25 Standard for Voice and Data Interoperable Radio Communication solution for migrating federal, state and local government agencies which allows systems to interoperate, regardless of manufacturer.

The PACMERS LMR system has been in operation in Hawaii since October 10, 2002. There are currently 2629 radio users on the network, representing the Army, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, National Guard and other government units. PACMERS began with four RF sites on Oahu and one on the Island of Hawaii. In early 2005 two new Oahu sites were added and more sites are planned for the future on the Big Island of Hawaii.

New Features Available

The PACMERS data network which provides users the ability to send and receive data as text or graphical messages, to improve the quality and content of information between remote users and their central offices, and to bring additional advantages to traditional voice-only communications. An optional software application allows access to the National Crime Information Center/National Law Enforcement Telecommunications System (NCIC/NLETS).

A wireless data system with Automatic Vehicle Location (AVL) and Global Positioning System (GPS) capabilities which enables the creation of graphical maps on dispatch terminals that electronically identify the location and direction of each emergency/police vehicle in real time. As a result, dispatchers who are in control of a fleet of vehicles can make split-second requests for incident assistance which will improve response times.

Over-the-Air-Rekeying (OTAR) which is the distribution of encryption keys from a centralized key management device over an RF channel. This will be used to encrypt all RF communication to Sensitive but Unclassified (SBU) Type 3 levels.

Type 1 portable-to-portable radio communication which is available through the existing wide area trunking system.
PACMERS was installed and is being maintained by CACI, a sophisticated systems integrator who has provided the government with the most efficient and technologically

advanced trunked radio solution. CACI is an information technology solutions provider and Land Mobile Radio (LMR) system integrator who has served the commercial and federal technology markets for more than 40 years. We have fielded a dedicated program team with members who posses over 50 years of combined experience in managing telecommunications systems as well as operational experience and communications support to contingency operations. CACI's business has grown to more than $1.62B in sales, largely with the federal government.

This publicly accessible website is dedicated to the management and administration of PACMERS and can be utilized by the interested public for background information on how DoD and its commercial partners are enhancing public safety and Homeland Security in the state of Hawaii through reliable radio technology.
 

commstar

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Any indication that the Seattle area systems have these capabilities?

FROM: http://www.caci.com/pacmers/about.shtml

PACMERS Mission Statement
Implement a non-tactical, trunked, land mobile radio (LMR) system in support of Commander, Pacific Command and other Department of Defense (DoD) and non-DoD federal agencies in the Pacific Command (PACOM) area of responsibility. The PACMERS supports interoperability between DoD, other federal, state and city agencies that use LMR systems in the Pacific Region.



The tragic events of September 11, 2001 emphasized effective emergency communications as a key element in reducing the loss of life in any disaster or threat to public safety. DoD emergency services and other federal, state and city agencies involved in public safety and Homeland Security need a coordinated response that utilizes communications resources in the most effective manner. In order to accomplish this they must have access to a system that gives them the ability to communicate quickly, clearly and seamlessly.

The Pacific Mobile Emergency Radio System (PACMERS) is the program directed by the United States Pacific Command (USPACOM) that establishes a Land Mobile Radio (LMR) system in Hawaii. PACMERS is a system borne out of a requirement to save lives. This system allows emergency medical service providers, fire and police to communicate using interoperable radios. During accidents and disasters emergency personnel in Hawaii will need enhanced interoperable communications in order to provide a rapid response.

The PACMERS wide-area trunking system is a fully integrated interoperable radio system that meets the National Telecommunications Information Agency (NTIA) mandate for narrow band operation for military/federal agencies. PACMERS also provides a Project 25 Standard for Voice and Data Interoperable Radio Communication solution for migrating federal, state and local government agencies which allows systems to interoperate, regardless of manufacturer.

The PACMERS LMR system has been in operation in Hawaii since October 10, 2002. There are currently 2629 radio users on the network, representing the Army, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, National Guard and other government units. PACMERS began with four RF sites on Oahu and one on the Island of Hawaii. In early 2005 two new Oahu sites were added and more sites are planned for the future on the Big Island of Hawaii.

New Features Available

The PACMERS data network which provides users the ability to send and receive data as text or graphical messages, to improve the quality and content of information between remote users and their central offices, and to bring additional advantages to traditional voice-only communications. An optional software application allows access to the National Crime Information Center/National Law Enforcement Telecommunications System (NCIC/NLETS).

A wireless data system with Automatic Vehicle Location (AVL) and Global Positioning System (GPS) capabilities which enables the creation of graphical maps on dispatch terminals that electronically identify the location and direction of each emergency/police vehicle in real time. As a result, dispatchers who are in control of a fleet of vehicles can make split-second requests for incident assistance which will improve response times.

Over-the-Air-Rekeying (OTAR) which is the distribution of encryption keys from a centralized key management device over an RF channel. This will be used to encrypt all RF communication to Sensitive but Unclassified (SBU) Type 3 levels.

Type 1 portable-to-portable radio communication which is available through the existing wide area trunking system.
PACMERS was installed and is being maintained by CACI, a sophisticated systems integrator who has provided the government with the most efficient and technologically advanced trunked radio solution. CACI is an information technology solutions provider and Land Mobile Radio (LMR) system integrator who has served the commercial and federal technology markets for more than 40 years. We have fielded a dedicated program team with members who posses over 50 years of combined experience in managing telecommunications systems as well as operational experience and communications support to contingency operations. CACI's business has grown to more than $1.62B in sales, largely with the federal government.

This publicly accessible website is dedicated to the management and administration of PACMERS and can be utilized by the interested public for background information on how DoD and its commercial partners are enhancing public safety and Homeland Security in the state of Hawaii through reliable radio technology.
 

FlashP

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FtL / 396

Old firmware tracked the system, new firmware makes the voice decode a bit better. A good antenna (for UHF) would probably be better than driving to within a few miles.
Flash
 

Wilrobnson

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23792- Though mostly DES, this is a security channel. Delta South and Whisky-42 were calling their secure status in the clear tonight. (sys 14c)
 

jeremym70

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I was all over the Fort Lewis area back in March when I went to the swap meet and had absolutely no luck decoding the P25 voice channels in trunking mode or conventional. A little blurb of a word here or there, but no full transmissions. I tried all the digital voice settings with no luck.

Not related at all, but I was in Hawaii last month and monitored the 400Mhz P25 PACEMERS system with no problems. Even found new sites and new talkgroups that weren't in the database.
 

olowy

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n7ryy said:
Nope not yet, can't afford the $75 bucks worth of gas and food to go up there and spend the day playing with the scanner.
Well, you are my comrade in frustrations as I had the same thing and I would keep asking other people on intercept if they had issues and everyone was like nope. nope. I couldnt figure out if I had a busted machine, did I drop, ect. I'll try the upgrade and let you if it worked.
 

kd5dga

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Fort Hood Texas just went to a 4 site p-25 system this spring.This is a issue that has been going on for a while with all government instillations.
 

Mainsail

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I have Ft Lewis programmed in my 396 but I'm not hearing anything. Has anyone successfully managed to program the 396 with this system, and if so, PLEASE tell me what you did. I work on McChord so I'm close enough that I should be able to hear it.
 

dste

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Just create 3 systems as type P25.

In the 1st system 101 the freqs will be 380.075 and 380.275.

The second system 102 will have 380.2125 only.

The 3rd system 103 will have 380.725 only.

This will get you trunking and you should hear TGs on at least one of the systems. If you can't get the others to leave NFM status they are just out of range. I usually use a RS 800 antenna but I do not know what you might need.

Do not program anything in the 385+ range - only the above 380s.
 
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Mainsail

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The first and third choices seem to work, sorta. Like a couple of others mentioned, all I'm hearing are choppy trasmissions where I cannot make out even one word of what's being said. The signal seems strong, so I don't think it's a squelch thing.
 
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