A navigation question for Wiki Admins, please...

[QDP2012]

Good morning Wiki Admins,

I only recently started working with the RR Wiki pages in detail. After reading all of the instruction pages for Wiki users, and the threads in this forum, I still need your guidance on the following questions/suggestions. If the answers are in the instructions, I apologize for missing them and ask for you to redirect me to them.

My Wiki-navigation techniques thus far
First, let me explain that my use of the Wiki almost never starts on the Wiki Home page nor on the Wiki Collaboration page. I almost always find my way to a Wiki page by first visiting a Database page and clicking its "Wiki" button. Having opened the related Wiki page, I then navigate up, down, and across the Wiki, without making any more "steps up" from a detailed Wiki page than necessary before finding my next detailed page of interest. This might not be the ideal navigation technique. It's what I am doing at this point.

My questions
Even though we are encouraged to directly edit and update standard wiki pages, I wanted to request permission to make the following changes, or to suggest them as additions to your list of future wiki-revisions:

1. Links on Category:....Region pages.
On "Category:...(some)Region" pages, like the "Category:Southern_Region" page

...may I change (or would you consider changing) the bullet list of states so that each state name is a link to its corresponding Wiki page (see example below), or is a link to a corresponding (sub-)Category page (see question 2)?

Example (quoted from Category:Southern_Region page):
Category:Southern Region - The RadioReference Wiki

Welcome to the Southern Region article. Please post all articles relating to information from the following states into this category;

• Alabama
• Arkansas
• Florida
• Georgia
• Kentucky
• Louisiana
• Mississippi
• North Carolina
• South Carolina
• Tennessee
• Texas
• Virginia
• West Virginia

When adding a new article for this topic, please CATEGORIZE these pages by adding [[Category:Southern Region]] as the last line

To view any of the articles listed below, simply click on the title.
(...auto-generated list of articles truncated for convenience...)

2. Categories and category pages for each state
Also, are we permitted to create a category, and apply it to the appropriate pages, for each state, so that for example: all pages for Virginia would have uniformly added to them the appropriate state category, like: "Category:States_Virginia", and the "Category:States_Virginia" page would have its category set to "Category:Southern Region"?
Or, is this something you would consider adding to your list of future Wiki changes?


Reasons for requests

• I believe both of the above changes would make state-by-state navigation easier, because:
  • Even though the states' links already exist on the "Collaboration Gateway" page, having those links also on the Region pages would give a Wiki-visitor another clean route to only their state's pages without having to pick them from the comprehensive alphabetically-sorted list of pages that is auto-generated at the bottom of the Region page.
  • It would make it easier for Wiki-users who start at a detailed page, to navigate up and back down without having to traverse to the top of the Wiki-tree.
    • For example, a visitor could start at a "Some City,Virginia" page, and after reading its information, click on the "Category:States_Virginia" link at the bottom, thereby stepping up only one step on the Wiki-Tree to find a list of other places in Virginia. If they are interested in looking at a Region, then they could click on the "Category:Southern Region" link at the bottom of the Virginia page, and step up another step on the Wiki-Tree to the Region page.
    This would seem to allow faster navigation across the Wiki than always having to go to the top (at either the Wiki-Home or the Collaboration-Gateway), and having to search dense/long/multiple pages for their desired page's link.
  
  
• I know that, in-general, a tree-structured page-indexing tool like "Category:..." can be used in ways that are too-thin or too-thick so that it either does not give enough granularity and makes a wide tree, or gives too much depth which slows down the indexing-engine.
  
  
• I wanted to check with you in-case from your view you can tell that the above changes would not be compatible with how you want the Wiki structured.

Thank you for your time and consideration and your hard work on the Wiki already.

Respectfully,

 

[ka3jjz]

Categories are as freely edited as any other article. If you want to add links to the state names for each category, have at it. The same goes with making sub categories from a main one. We don't restrict such activity. You don't need anyone's permission. This kind of development is member-driven, so if you think you've got a good idea, let's see it.. Mike

 

[QDP2012]

Thank you.

 

[AK9R]

However, please do not create categories named, for example "Virginia (US)". Just "Virginia" is fine. There was already precedent for just using the state name, Michigan is an example, and I'd like to retain that consistency.

 

[QDP2012]

Certainly. My apologies. I will fix the notation on the existing ones before continuing.

 

[QDP2012]

How to automatically display SubCategories on a Category page

Good afternoon,

I like how the page...

• 
  Category:Great Plains Region

...automatically displays its SubCategories.

What change is needed to make each of these pages behave the same way?

• Category:Southern Region
• Category:Midwest Region

When compared, these pages' programming code do not seem to reveal any significant differences. So far, I am not finding the answer in the online docs, either. If I have missed the instructions, please redirect me to them.

Thank you in advance,

 

[QDP2012]

partial list of subcategories

At the moment, the Category:Southern Region is showing only Alabama and Arkansas as subcategories.

I am not sure why this is the case, possibly a difference between:

• creating the Category: (state) page with the parent category specified,

versus

• creating the Category: (state) page with no category and later specifying its Regional-parent category.

Thank you in advance for any suggestions or instructions,

 

[AK9R]

You create hierarchical categories by making a child category a member of a parent category. But, I don't understand why it's not working in some situations. Weird.

I'm a little brain-dead right now. I'll have to look into it later.

 

[QDP2012]

Thank you.

 

[ibagli]

If you keep hitting next, the categories show up when their first letters show up down below. I think you could get around that quirk by categorizing the state categories as [[Category:Southern Region|*]]. That way they'll be alphabetized before A.

 

[QDP2012]

Some appear in the "pages" list, while some appear in the "Subcategories" list.

The "Great Plains Region" shows several in the Subcategories list.
The "Southern Region" shows a few in the Subcategories list.
The "Midwest Region" and "Mid Atlantic Region" do not show a Subcategories list.

 

[ibagli]

The subcategories list seems to only show up if there's a subcategory that would be alphabetized within the range of pages that are displayed. The Midwest Region category shows the subcategories if you go on to the other pages of pages.

 

[QDP2012]

Makes sense now. Thanks.

The subcategories list seems to only show up if there's a subcategory that would be alphabetized within the range of pages that are displayed.The Midwest Region category shows the subcategories if you go on to the other pages of pages.

At first, I wasn't sure what you were describing. After checking again, I understand.

Now I get it: The Subcategory's letter-group must be visible in the pages section. In other words, the categories that start with "Z" will not show up until the pages that start with "Z" are also listed on the screen.

Thank you for catching this. That clarifies things a lot.

Also, for what it's worth, I have been leaving the Region category on all of the pages to which I have applied a state category, so that wiki-visitors can navigate in the manner most useful for them, whether Region > State > County > Wiki-page, or Region > (read long list) > Wiki-page.

It looks like everything is working as it should.

Thanks again,

 

[QDP2012]

One method of keeping all subcategories visible regardless of the specific pages listed, is to place a list of all subcategories in the upper part of the Region page.

An example, for discussion purposes, is on the Southern Region page:

Category:Southern Region

I can think of several "pros" and "cons" about this approach.

Your thoughts?

Thanks,

 

[AK9R]

At first, it seems confusing to have two links named the same.

It might make more sense to swap the columns, i.e. State Wiki Article | State Sub-Category.

 

[QDP2012]

At first, it seems confusing to have two links named the same.

It might make more sense to swap the columns, i.e. State Wiki Article | State Sub-Category.

I had the same initial confusion no matter how many times I looked at it. The columns have been swapped and some instructions added above the table. Please review the changes at your convenience.

All suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks,

 

[QDP2012]

Also, for what it's worth, I have been leaving the Region category on all of the pages to which I have applied a state category, so that wiki-visitors can navigate in the manner most useful for them, whether Region > State > County > Wiki-page, or Region > (read long list) > Wiki-page.

@ibagli:

It looks like you are helping implement the Ohio category on some pages. I appreciate it. However, I would like to be consistent with either keeping or removing the related region-category from the individual Wiki articles. So far, I have been leaving the region-category on the individual Wiki articles, to make sure the comprehensive list will still function as it has thus far. This way, the changes we are making are only adding functionality, not removing it, for the wiki-visitors.

I mention this, because I think we should decide which direction to go, whether to:

• implement something like the table being discussed in the posts above, which keeps the comprehensive list for those who use it, OR
• to remove the region-category tags from the individual pages, and (possibly) not need something like the table.

I see reasons for each choice. (Personally, since Wiki-visitors arrive at Wiki-articles from "all directions", I prefer to keep the comprehensive list as it has already been implemented. Also, I would like to avoid going back to remove the region-category from the 500+ pages to which state-categories have been already applied.)

But in either case, I think the most important thing is to be consistent, so that all regions behave the same way.

Your thoughts?

Thanks again for helping add state-categories to the individual Wiki articles,

 

[ibagli]

I'm so used to editing on wikis where they're really anal about not putting an article in parent and child categories that I didn't even think about keeping them in both. IMO, though, a huge regional category with 1,300 articles in it isn't really providing any functionality, and it might very well be hindering it.

 

[QDP2012]

I'm so used to editing on wikis where they're really anal about not putting an article in parent and child categories that I didn't even think about keeping them in both. IMO, though, a huge regional category with 1,300 articles in it isn't really providing any functionality, and it might very well be hindering it.

I understand. I thought about both of your points too. If I recall correctly, the forum rules encourage/allow us to put articles into multiple categories. I took that to mean parent-child multiplicity, too, but that might be an incorrect understanding on my part.

Maybe an admin would like to weigh in on that.

I don't like removing functionality, especially since many people approach things differently. Afterall, those who implemented the comprehensive list approached it differently than I did. Both are valid approaches depending on what a Wiki-visitor needs. But, I understand your points completely, and really have more of an interest in maintaining uniformity than whether to remove or keep region category on the individual Wiki-article pages.


Admins, do you have a preference on whether wiki-articles get categorized with region and state categories vs only state categories (given that the state is a child of the region)?


Thanks again for the ideas and comments,

 

[AK9R]

Admins, do you have a preference on whether wiki-articles get categorized with region and state categories vs only state categories (given that the state is a child of the region)?

I believe you are headed down the right path. I think organizing along the lines of hierarchical categories is a good idea.