AES Serial number?

[K7UDZ]

None of this but paying the bill is anything for you to worry about.

💯. Otherwise why are you paying money for a dealer’s services if they won’t do the work for you.

 

[mmckenna]

Too bad Harris radios are significantly less secure (FIPS 140 level 1) than the MACE (FIPS 140 level 2 or 3).

Our XL-200's are FIPS 140-2
The XL-300 is FIPS 140-3

 

[K7UDZ]

Our XL-200's are FIPS 140-2
The XL-300 is FIPS 140-3

What you are talking about is the revision of FIPS 140, not the level. FIPS 140-2 was the second revision, which was deprecated several years ago and replaced with 140-3.

If you look at the FIPS 140 cert for the XL series, you’ll see it is overall level 1, which basically means the algorithms are in fact FIPS validated – but implies nothing about tamper resistance, etc.

Cryptographic Module Validation Program | CSRC

Welcome to the CMVP The Cryptographic Module Validation Program (CMVP) is a joint effort between the National Institute of Standards and Technology under the Department of Commerce and the Canadian Centre for Cyber Security, a branch of the Communications...

csrc.nist.gov

The XL-300P claims on its datasheet to use a level 3 module, but the NIST CMVP search doesn’t show it… either they’re using a third-party module (and not saying which it is), or it’s not actually validated yet.

 

[KE4ZNR]

Sorry to hear about all the hassle adding a feature and this is just another reason people love the Harris radios.

When it comes to Harris you are as insufferable as the Moto Fanbois.
We get it: You think Harris radios are perfect and have no flaws.

 

[MTS2000des]

When it comes to Harris you are as insufferable as the Moto Fanbois.
We get it: You think Harris radios are perfect and have no flaws.

Like only 8 ARC-4 keys. Yes, we know ARC4 is welfare encryption but only 8 key slots? even Burger King radios give you 32,

 

[nikronzo]

The only reason to be using ADP on Harris is because you were forced too because someone else was too poor to afford AES/DES on their /\/\ bootlicker radios. Piss corp didnt even wanna add ADP support till all the people *****ed they needed iNtErOp. At least when you get a XL you get 1 AES and 1 DES key for free.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Everything you are questioning is your dealer's problem, not yours. They don't need the serial of your keyloader, the dealer would give them theirs and handle the upgrade for you. None of this but paying the bill is anything for you to worry about.

Also you plan on using KFDtool for your public safety radio?

I had an agency that Motorola had shipped radios with ADP (only ADP because it was "free" so it got included) that had been purchased with grant funds. Well in Texas at that time, the grant requirements stated that if encryption was optioned, AES had to be included. The customer didn't really care if the radios had encryption or not.

Anyway, Motorola reached out to me (as the regional system manager at the time) to see if I could initialize the MACE. My comment was I only have a personal KVL4000 (no longer supported) as encryption is only used locally for administrative overhead (essentially on the COMU talkgroups). Then they tried the MR who they typically contract in the area...who they discovered only had a KVL3000 (not plus). They reached out to the other semi-local MR, who answered with the question of if the municipal radio shops never let us have access to key material or a KEK, why would we spend the money on a KVL?

Motorola had to end up adding flash upgrades in the invoice to remove ADP.

That was a cluster, and part of the reason all grant funded radios in Texas are now required to have AES Multikey and Multi-System OTAR (or the vendor's equivalent function). If you really want to see me stand on a soap box, get me going about the multiband requirment for grant funded radios in Texas.

The only reason to be using ADP on Harris is because you were forced too because someone else was too poor to afford AES/DES on their /\/\ bootlicker radios. Piss corp didnt even wanna add ADP support till all the people *****ed they needed iNtErOp. At least when you get a XL you get 1 AES and 1 DES key for free.

In terms of interop, a single AES key and a single DES key is useless and my guess is it's there for the same reason EFJ typically likes to option DES in their radios as a $0 option. Ensures the encryption chip is populated on the board and initialized (because in EFJ's case, JVCK do JVCK things and cut manufacturing steps if saves a penny).

Seriously, if you bring a multiband radio to an incident around here and it can't support SLN's 3/6/12/14 and more commonly now 10...you are getting a cache radio if you are assigned to something where encryption is in use.

 

[wa8pyr]

That was a cluster, and part of the reason all grant funded radios in Texas are now required to have AES Multikey and Multi-System OTAR (or the vendor's equivalent function). If you really want to see me stand on a soap box, get me going about the multiband requirment for grant funded radios in Texas.

When I worked at Homeland Security, we administered all of these grants. Our county was nearly all Motorola, and our biggest gripe was the single-key ADP included free. A couple of years before I retired from that job and got a job in Emergency Management the next county over, the Feds changed the grant requirements so that free encryption had to be AES. So Moneyrola changed from single-key ADP to AES. Single-key wasn’t really an issue as the county is very interoperable (both in the county and with adjacent counties), encryption isn’t heavily used, and best practices mandated no encryption at major interop incidents.

In terms of interop, a single AES key and a single DES key is useless and my guess is it's there for the same reason EFJ typically likes to option DES in their radios as a $0 option.

Depends on how you use it. At my last job before I retired, we stuck with DES as everybody had it in every radio (it was the $0 freebie in Harris radios before they switched to AES). We had a couple of encrypted countywide tac talkgroups shared by everyone, and each agency had a ‘private’ talkgroup. It worked out nicely, although at the time I retired we were in the process of switching to AES as it was now the $0 freebie in new Harris radios. Harris was nice enough to switch our existing radios to single-key AES for a few bucks a radio; all I had to do was touch every radio, get the feature string, send that to TAC, and then put the new feature string in the radio. I made this simple by doing it during the annual alignment visits.

 

[K7UDZ]

free encryption had to be AES. So Moneyrola changed from single-key ADP to AES.

Are you saying that Moto radios now all come with free AES single-key? That has not been my experience, nor that of the OP… is this a recent change?

I do agree that many grants require AES to be present if any encryption is present. And I’ve seen agencies get around it by speccing radios to have no encryption at all, to still comply.

 

[wa8pyr]

Are you saying that Moto radios now all come with free AES single-key? That has not been my experience, nor that of the OP… is this a recent change?

I do agree that many grants require AES to be present if any encryption is present. And I’ve seen agencies get around it by speccing radios to have no encryption at all, to still comply.

This started around 2016-ish. All of the radios we purchased via Federal grants were required to have AES, if encryption was included (which it always was for every radio I ever spec’d). That requirement was laid on us by the Feds. If a customer needed multi-key, they had to tell me so I could spec it, and that option was at their expense if it caused the total price to exceed the grant amount. I always recommended that they buy as many radios as possible using the grant money, then pay for multi-key themselves (if they needed it), as 10 multi-key upgrades was always cheaper than the total price of a radio.

After that requirement went into effect, all the radios we ever got from Moto included single-key AES, whether we used grant money or not. Our Moto rep told me that was becoming a company-wide standard for public safety radios.

I retired from that job in 2019 and moved to the next one, where we used Harris almost exclusively (since we migrated from an EDACS system). Harris always included single-key DES in every radio as a standard feature, later changed to AES.

 

[prcguy]

When it comes to Harris you are as insufferable as the Moto Fanbois.
We get it: You think Harris radios are perfect and have no flaws.

Everything has flaws. The main flaw with Motorola is its price. I have a lot of Harris stuff and some APX stuff. I look at my APX8500 and with typical used prices it costs nearly 10X what my XG-100M costs and the XG-100M does just about everything the APX does plus its got a VHF lo band receiver/exciter which Motorola doesn't offer at any price.

At least for amateur, GMRS and using it as a scanner plus with the help you can get in the Harris community the Harris is a much better deal. For a brand new cop radio its a different use/different story and not really applicable here. Since this is pretty much a hobby site and I'm talking hobby use the Harris rules over the Motorola for many reasons. And to stay somewhat on topic, things like having to use a particular version of a Motorola KVL to load a feature is stupid outside of cop use compared to the Harris.

 

[mikewazowski]

OP got his answer a while ago.