AFRRCS - Alberta First Responders' Radio Communication System Tender finally closed
- Thread starter SCPD
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Nope.
The RCMP are in dire need of a comms system as theirs is almost a decade past "end of life" for the product and is only being held together with spare parts cannibalized from within itself. The provincial agencies that use radio (Sheriffs, F&W, Conservation Officers, etc) all need a province-wide comms system as MDMRS has long ago bit the dust.
AFRRCS is a go, and it will be operational in stages, much like Ontario's FleetNet was. Some parts of it have a great chance of being alive in late 2009 to early 2010. Users will be on it at that point - they are not waiting for the entire thing to be done in "2012" as some people have implied.
The RCMP are in dire need of a comms system as theirs is almost a decade past "end of life" for the product and is only being held together with spare parts cannibalized from within itself. The provincial agencies that use radio (Sheriffs, F&W, Conservation Officers, etc) all need a province-wide comms system as MDMRS has long ago bit the dust.
AFRRCS is a go, and it will be operational in stages, much like Ontario's FleetNet was. Some parts of it have a great chance of being alive in late 2009 to early 2010. Users will be on it at that point - they are not waiting for the entire thing to be done in "2012" as some people have implied.
Hi Jay,
I hope you're right. The province is in dire need of a new system. Unfortunately, things like obscure infrastructure projects like radio systems tend to be the first things squashed when there is a lack of money. I work on govt owned radio systems, and I see it time and time again. Most people (especially bureaucrats) don't understand what involved to make this stuff run, and they are even less interested in learning. People won't tolerate roads crumbling to dust, or buildings that are unsafe, but tell them that some sort of radio thingy used by some people for something somewhere is being mothballed due to budget restraints, and all that it raises is a shoulder shrug.
The original estimate for this system is $300 million. That's a hard pill to swallow for a province with a $7 billion deficit.
I'm not really in favour of a 700 MHz system (or P25 either), but that's a debate for another thread.
BB
I hope you're right. The province is in dire need of a new system. Unfortunately, things like obscure infrastructure projects like radio systems tend to be the first things squashed when there is a lack of money. I work on govt owned radio systems, and I see it time and time again. Most people (especially bureaucrats) don't understand what involved to make this stuff run, and they are even less interested in learning. People won't tolerate roads crumbling to dust, or buildings that are unsafe, but tell them that some sort of radio thingy used by some people for something somewhere is being mothballed due to budget restraints, and all that it raises is a shoulder shrug.
The original estimate for this system is $300 million. That's a hard pill to swallow for a province with a $7 billion deficit.
I'm not really in favour of a 700 MHz system (or P25 either), but that's a debate for another thread.
BB
Well, if you tune in the AFFRCS home page, you are greeted with this announcement.
BB
So it seems the GoA is using any excuse to weasel out of a new system during this deficit. They are trying to blame it on the vendors now. This just keeps getting better...
BB
How can a bid or tender be over budget. Isn't the point of a RFP (bid or tender) just that. Give you a cost to do the project.
I got wind a few weeks ago that "all four vendors' bids did not meet the minimum criteria". I'd be really interested in knowing what criteria wasn't met, because I know what the criteria is, and I can't think of anything that the vendors wouldn't be able to pull off.
As for whether or not this will cause the whole thing to get shut down, your guess is as good as mine. Considering the need for province-wide comms for a whole ton of agencies is urgently overdue, I hope that's not the case, but anything is certainly possible.
As for whether or not this will cause the whole thing to get shut down, your guess is as good as mine. Considering the need for province-wide comms for a whole ton of agencies is urgently overdue, I hope that's not the case, but anything is certainly possible.
I know the GoA hired a 3rd party consultant to review the vendors bids. I hope this report will be made public. Its been floating around the GoA office for weeks now.
I'm thinking each of the 4 vendors wanted to keep the system priprietary to their radio equiptment. Would only make sense.
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I read the whole quote from cover to cover, and I'm not surprised that no one vendor was able to meet all minimum requirements. The GoA had some pretty outlandish minimums. If I was a vendor, I would have run away screaming before I wasted any money replying to the RFP.
As an example, one of the requirements was something like less than 10 minutes of downtime per year. I can't think of any system that is that reliable. If as a vendor you ever agreed to something as silly as that, you'd be setting yourself up for the mother of all lawsuits.
BB
The vendors would HAVE to keep it proprietary if they ever hope to make it work properly. One of the requirements was that joe blow fire dept could walk into almost any small town radio shop and buy radios from umpteen different vendors and have them work on the system. I'd like to see where that has ever worked anywhere else on the planet. It's a great idea to keep costs down, and service and equipment availability up, but common sense trumps pipe dreams.
BB
I heard the RCMP are already planning for their own replacement system in light of the GoA dragging their feet for so long on this. They've already been waiting 10 years, and they can't wait another 5-10. Public safety is at risk.
BB
The RCMP just replaced or upgraded a couple of repeaters with brand spanking new ones around Edmonton recently. A15 is one.
Think'n they know the AFRRCS will be delayed, had no choice but to do something.
omrail
Member
the system in Leduc needed to be replaced at leased a years ago. if i was a officer in Leduc i would be scared for my life
Intellgence2008
Member
Overhall long overdue
In the last month I have been listening to the communication quality around the province of Alberta, and outside Calgary,it feels like going back to the Flintstone times of communications. Sometime I am expecting to hear Neil Armstrong voice calling from Apollo space craft. First, ridiculous concept is the way the EMS radio system is laid out. Each community has either 800 MHZ,or UHF 400 MHZ, or VHF ,what is up with that,I am sure that must enjoyible in a major disaster, similiar with Fire services outside the larger cities. RCMP has to be the worse communication are so bad, I heard a incident recently where a officer went to this complaint and was requesting back up and they could not be heard by dispatch using the portable radio,they could not back to the crusier they had to run down the street from the incident and use their cellphone and dial the dispatcher for assistance,two tin cans some string is more effective. This weekend past I was listening to Calgary EMS (Oops sorry Alberta Health Services-AHS) and I very seldom listen to EMS ,but it baffled me when a unit was calling into the Foothills ER,that they have to patch in through their dispatcher to talk to the Triage nurse.What,I say again What was the creators of this system thinking,instead of having designate channel where the EMS unit switches to and calls the hospital directly.The medics very seldom uses the radios ,they use their cellphones,with good reasons. Alberta is the only provinces EMS medics use the cellphone to call in patient reports,well some so long winded, instead of just giving the Reader Digest version. Stars Air Ambulance seems to be okay but again they have to do this age old patch through the dispatcher instead of direct communications. Maybe its time that the province start looking at other provinces (Oh my gosh getting help from another province,but I am Albertian,we do things our way even though they are not the right way). Something has to change ,the present communication is a mess and has to change before the next major disaster.
In the last month I have been listening to the communication quality around the province of Alberta, and outside Calgary,it feels like going back to the Flintstone times of communications. Sometime I am expecting to hear Neil Armstrong voice calling from Apollo space craft. First, ridiculous concept is the way the EMS radio system is laid out. Each community has either 800 MHZ,or UHF 400 MHZ, or VHF ,what is up with that,I am sure that must enjoyible in a major disaster, similiar with Fire services outside the larger cities. RCMP has to be the worse communication are so bad, I heard a incident recently where a officer went to this complaint and was requesting back up and they could not be heard by dispatch using the portable radio,they could not back to the crusier they had to run down the street from the incident and use their cellphone and dial the dispatcher for assistance,two tin cans some string is more effective. This weekend past I was listening to Calgary EMS (Oops sorry Alberta Health Services-AHS) and I very seldom listen to EMS ,but it baffled me when a unit was calling into the Foothills ER,that they have to patch in through their dispatcher to talk to the Triage nurse.What,I say again What was the creators of this system thinking,instead of having designate channel where the EMS unit switches to and calls the hospital directly.The medics very seldom uses the radios ,they use their cellphones,with good reasons. Alberta is the only provinces EMS medics use the cellphone to call in patient reports,well some so long winded, instead of just giving the Reader Digest version. Stars Air Ambulance seems to be okay but again they have to do this age old patch through the dispatcher instead of direct communications. Maybe its time that the province start looking at other provinces (Oh my gosh getting help from another province,but I am Albertian,we do things our way even though they are not the right way). Something has to change ,the present communication is a mess and has to change before the next major disaster.
Intellgence2008
Member
Recently a relative of mine who is with the RCMP was given an opinion of working one of the detachments in Alberta,she did a little research and found out ,if you want to be able to talk to your dispatcher when your on a call then Alberta is not the place to go. She has heard this from some of the people who worked at detachments in Alberta and were glad to get transferred elsewhere outside Alberta. A opening came up in Nova Scotia and took that posting,a lot of officers wants to go to NS just because the RCMP there are using the digital TMR and can talk from one side of the province to the other on their portable radios if want,no patching through dispatchers,crystal clear reception. They can speak with local fire and EMS (who are also TMR) on the same channel in the event of disaster.Same thing with Life Flight and ground ambulance can speak to each other without climbing the highest tree in the area to get a marginal reception. By the time air ambulance arrives they aware of vital signs and the condition of the patient ,then the air ambulance can call the hospital via radio and Satellite phone without having to tie a dispatcher for a "radio patch". Even the TV show Emergency ,Johnny and Roy did not have to go through the dispatcher to call the hospital,and let see that was the early 70s,nice to see Alberta is up to date with radio communications.
omrail
Member
the GoA has updated the web site with what we know already but that i would let you all know.
Government of Alberta:
Government of Alberta:
Hey folks,
I got that info today as well. One of the primary folks on the AFRRCS project keeps me in the loop, by their choice I should add. I was told pretty much the same info that was posted on the website, with one or two additions. One was that any rumors of the project being up for cancellation are completely untrue and that everything is moving along. There was some explanation of the reason for the delays in going ahead, which as I understand it is due to the way government works, and how procedures have to be followed and documentation, etc., has to be done. As the web site says, though, they plan to have the vendor selected by early in the new year, and get on the system's production by spring.
Omrail: Just noticed that first line in your sig. Sorry to hear that. Hope you're finding something to do in the meantime!
I got that info today as well. One of the primary folks on the AFRRCS project keeps me in the loop, by their choice I should add. I was told pretty much the same info that was posted on the website, with one or two additions. One was that any rumors of the project being up for cancellation are completely untrue and that everything is moving along. There was some explanation of the reason for the delays in going ahead, which as I understand it is due to the way government works, and how procedures have to be followed and documentation, etc., has to be done. As the web site says, though, they plan to have the vendor selected by early in the new year, and get on the system's production by spring.
Omrail: Just noticed that first line in your sig. Sorry to hear that. Hope you're finding something to do in the meantime!
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