The pictures I find on the zerofive web site are so small I can't really tell how well-disguised the antenna parts of it are, and what size (if any) flag it will be able to handle. But, it sounds like a good idea!
Antennas for a one-story rental unit
- Thread starter K9DWB
- Start date
- Status
The pictures I find on the zerofive web site are so small I can't really tell how well-disguised the antenna parts of it are, and what size (if any) flag it will be able to handle. But, it sounds like a good idea!
K9DWB
QRT
Yes I think I might get away with it but it's a maybe. The big hurdle is the money. Antenna price AND pole install is going to add up to lots more cash than I'd be OK with. I do want to do whatever I do right, but I'm income restricted in a serious way. Yeah OK ham can be an expensive hobby. I get that, but I'll need to keep searching I think instead of the flagpole.
Unless I come up with some brilliant idea, and even so it's premature to know what I can do with permission or doing it without being noticed. I'll soon find out though. If there's other bright ideas keep telling me. I'd appreciate it. It would be awesome if I could get away with Danny's MyAntenna EFHW but I don't know if the roof area is long enough to hide one. Example is the EFHW-7510-2K at 133 Feet (40m) long. If the roof dimensions are enough how might I stand this in a rooftop scenario?
Hey if someone would share, the EFHW is X long. What's best scenario? EFHW is straight horizontal or any bends?
BTW I saw a power pole in the street image in back. How may that impact me? How far away would it need to be to not affect me much?
Unless I come up with some brilliant idea, and even so it's premature to know what I can do with permission or doing it without being noticed. I'll soon find out though. If there's other bright ideas keep telling me. I'd appreciate it. It would be awesome if I could get away with Danny's MyAntenna EFHW but I don't know if the roof area is long enough to hide one. Example is the EFHW-7510-2K at 133 Feet (40m) long. If the roof dimensions are enough how might I stand this in a rooftop scenario?
Hey if someone would share, the EFHW is X long. What's best scenario? EFHW is straight horizontal or any bends?
BTW I saw a power pole in the street image in back. How may that impact me? How far away would it need to be to not affect me much?
You could make your own flag pole with something like a 21ft length of galvanized fence post rail or a 20ft pushup mast. Pound a sturdy chunk of water pipe in the middle of the lawn and its easy to make an insulator for the pipe. If you get an Icom radio, a used AH-4 tuner is not that much $$. You would want a small box at the base of the antenna to hide the tuner and wire connections and it doesn't have to be expensive.
The MyAntennas 80-10 EFHW is really good but its big at 133ft long. I would put up some masts to keep it above the roof and away from the metal rain gutters, etc. Bends of 90deg or more are not good, so I don't know how you would make that fit unless the building is over 100ft in one dimension and you used some masts at either end and something at the peak of the roof to hold it up like a short mast tied to a vent pipe. The 40-10m version is half the size at about 64ft long and would be much easier to fit in your space. Looking at the pictures of your new place that may be a possible, otherwise I think the only good option may a vertical.
The MyAntennas 80-10 EFHW is really good but its big at 133ft long. I would put up some masts to keep it above the roof and away from the metal rain gutters, etc. Bends of 90deg or more are not good, so I don't know how you would make that fit unless the building is over 100ft in one dimension and you used some masts at either end and something at the peak of the roof to hold it up like a short mast tied to a vent pipe. The 40-10m version is half the size at about 64ft long and would be much easier to fit in your space. Looking at the pictures of your new place that may be a possible, otherwise I think the only good option may a vertical.
K9DWB
QRT
OK great thoughts @prcguy and of course I don't know the roof dimensions yet. But it seems like EFHW like that would be too long, but I like the idea. IF the roof is that long, a pole on both ends and possibly a middle one would make it work as it needs to be above roof level. Am I getting it right basically or otherwise? 90 degree bends mean going another style antenna as I understand it.
Well otherwise let me do my due diligence to measure what I've got there and find out what they will permit me to do. I may revisit after the Christmas New Year holidays are over.
Well otherwise let me do my due diligence to measure what I've got there and find out what they will permit me to do. I may revisit after the Christmas New Year holidays are over.
Cognomen
♦
Here's a different EFHW, available in various lengths, as short as 24 feet.
The resonant EFHW runs circles around the ULTIMINIMUM and all the other 9:1 non resonant types (Maple Leaf, EARCHI, etc,) that rely partially on the feedline as a radiator. Its going to take some effort and a little $$ to get antennas going here and I would hate to see the OP end up with a compromised antenna after all that.
Here's a different EFHW, available in various lengths, as short as 24 feet.
K9DWB
QRT
Please correct me even harshly if need be. If I were dealing with best case circumstance, I would opt in for the EFHW, my choice is probably that 75M from MyAntennas. That means I'd need the 133' required assuming I string it flat horizontal and suspended x feet above ground.
I think to me that is best choice if I can do it. Flagpole is maybe doable but they're not cheap. Not being biased for or against anyone, but prcguy's info sounds like what I'd like to do if I'm able. Again my first choice is EFHW horizontal or nearly so. I see that as being least visible again if the situation lends to doing it. I think probably next choice up is best possible of a vertical. And I think most all those are a compromise of some sort. What exactly I don't know. Compromise that's chosen properly I think is what I'll have to accept. But that it's compromised in a way that's lowest impact on my needs is how I think.
I really like all the suggestions and all. I propose we all take a break for now. I am supposed to sign on Monday 12/28. Last info request for now. What things should I look for, measure, etc. to help decide on the physical attributes? I'll try to ask the manager what I might be permitted to do regarding this after I get to read over the lease paperwork. Maybe it's not even allowed. I do not know either positively or negatively but I will find out. And then we can scratch out an attack plan.
Happiest of holidays and big 73s
I think to me that is best choice if I can do it. Flagpole is maybe doable but they're not cheap. Not being biased for or against anyone, but prcguy's info sounds like what I'd like to do if I'm able. Again my first choice is EFHW horizontal or nearly so. I see that as being least visible again if the situation lends to doing it. I think probably next choice up is best possible of a vertical. And I think most all those are a compromise of some sort. What exactly I don't know. Compromise that's chosen properly I think is what I'll have to accept. But that it's compromised in a way that's lowest impact on my needs is how I think.
I really like all the suggestions and all. I propose we all take a break for now. I am supposed to sign on Monday 12/28. Last info request for now. What things should I look for, measure, etc. to help decide on the physical attributes? I'll try to ask the manager what I might be permitted to do regarding this after I get to read over the lease paperwork. Maybe it's not even allowed. I do not know either positively or negatively but I will find out. And then we can scratch out an attack plan.
Happiest of holidays and big 73s
For what it's worth, Danny at MyAntennas posted the following information on different hangings of his EFHW 8010 antenna:
Perfectly straight/horizontal is NOT required, but is the ideal situation. You might also be able to make an Inverted V or L work depending on trees in the yard.
++ for the "trees in the yard" suggestion! Maybe stating the obvious here, but you do know that you only need two points of attachment to hang an End Fed Half Wave antenna? And one of those points could be the eave on the building near where the coax cable will enter your unit. So to answer your "What things should I look for, measure, etc. to help decide on the physical attributes?" -
Look AWAY from the building for nearby trees or other "points of attachment" where you can string up the far end of the EFHW. From the only daytime pic you posted it appears there are trees in the area. HOWEVER, the ones in the pic are all toward where the camera was pointing... and appear to be across power lines and / or a highway. Obviously you can't use any to them. BUT - what about behind and to the side of where the camera was pointing? Are there trees or other possible supports for the far end of the EFHW? And don't worry about how you're going to get the far end up there.... lots of ways to do that using a device like the AirBoss to shoot a nylon line up over a limb and then pull up the other end of the antenna. Using a nearby tree or other support will get your antenna AWAY from the building... and help minimize or even eliminate RFI to your neighbors.
Look AWAY from the building for nearby trees or other "points of attachment" where you can string up the far end of the EFHW. From the only daytime pic you posted it appears there are trees in the area. HOWEVER, the ones in the pic are all toward where the camera was pointing... and appear to be across power lines and / or a highway. Obviously you can't use any to them. BUT - what about behind and to the side of where the camera was pointing? Are there trees or other possible supports for the far end of the EFHW? And don't worry about how you're going to get the far end up there.... lots of ways to do that using a device like the AirBoss to shoot a nylon line up over a limb and then pull up the other end of the antenna. Using a nearby tree or other support will get your antenna AWAY from the building... and help minimize or even eliminate RFI to your neighbors.
If you can fit the 133ft 80m EFHW then I believe you will have one of the best performing 10 through 10m including WARC band wire antennas available. You will have great performance and will probably not need a tuner within the phone portion of any band.
I've used just about everything available on the market and home brew and for me its a tossup between a 133ft EFHW or the 80m OCFD, both from MyAntennas. I have several 80m EFHWs but had to go with an OCFD here due to space and layout. If I use an EFHW the transformer and some coax would end up off the property as its hard to fit this much antenna on a small lot in the big city. I was able to barely squeeze the OCFD in only because the coax can drop down a ways in from the end. I also don't need a tuner with this antenna on any band and now connect the antenna directly to my 1.2kW amplifier and talk. I also supplement the OCFD with a Hex Beam from NA4RR for a little more performance and directionality on the higher bands.
I hope the OP can find the space for one of these 80-10 antennas.
I've used just about everything available on the market and home brew and for me its a tossup between a 133ft EFHW or the 80m OCFD, both from MyAntennas. I have several 80m EFHWs but had to go with an OCFD here due to space and layout. If I use an EFHW the transformer and some coax would end up off the property as its hard to fit this much antenna on a small lot in the big city. I was able to barely squeeze the OCFD in only because the coax can drop down a ways in from the end. I also don't need a tuner with this antenna on any band and now connect the antenna directly to my 1.2kW amplifier and talk. I also supplement the OCFD with a Hex Beam from NA4RR for a little more performance and directionality on the higher bands.
I hope the OP can find the space for one of these 80-10 antennas.
jim202
Member
One word of caution if you use a tree as one end of your wire antenna. Make sure you put in a door closer spring that can be allowed to stretch when the tree blows in the wind. Otherwise you will find your antenna laying on the ground after a heavy blow. Ask me how I know, I had an 80 meter dipole between a high pine tree on one end and about a 30 foot Cyprus tree on the other. My antenna broke at the pine tree end right at the insulator on the pine tree end.
The other issue that shows up with time is if you just threw a black Dacron rope over a branch to pull up your antenna. After about a year or so, the tree bark will grow around the rope and you won't be able to move it. So the best way around this problem is to drill a hole in the tree trunk and insert a screw in eye bolt and use a shackle or some other device to hold a pulley to the screw in eye bolt.
Jim
The other issue that shows up with time is if you just threw a black Dacron rope over a branch to pull up your antenna. After about a year or so, the tree bark will grow around the rope and you won't be able to move it. So the best way around this problem is to drill a hole in the tree trunk and insert a screw in eye bolt and use a shackle or some other device to hold a pulley to the screw in eye bolt.
Jim
K9DWB
QRT
I copy on all the new info guys and sincere thanks. I'll get to signing date and do my assessment and check back. I'm thinking I'm doing a video of a 360 around my building.
If at all possible I'll get an EFHW. But if not I'll evaluate and go to some form of next best. I'm aware I may need to accept some limitation(s). If so I'll work it to the best I'm able. Bottom line I'll get something rather than nothing, but I'll need to draw a too low to make it work line where it just won't make sense if it too limited to be of any use. I do think at least I'd get away with the dual band tripod I've got now for 2M/70cm. I'll have something ham so a no for HF doesn't mean I'm gonna quit.
If at all possible I'll get an EFHW. But if not I'll evaluate and go to some form of next best. I'm aware I may need to accept some limitation(s). If so I'll work it to the best I'm able. Bottom line I'll get something rather than nothing, but I'll need to draw a too low to make it work line where it just won't make sense if it too limited to be of any use. I do think at least I'd get away with the dual band tripod I've got now for 2M/70cm. I'll have something ham so a no for HF doesn't mean I'm gonna quit.
Before you dig anywhere, especially in an HOA, call 811. We may have our differences here and sometimes fight like brothers and sisters, but I do not want to see anyone, especially a fellow ham, get electrocuted or blown up by natural gas. Digging into a sewer line is not fun either, not to mention a water line. Don't think for a second that contractors won't cut corners to install anything. You may think that just digging one inch will not hurt anything... think again!
Call 811
Call 811
You can 'bend' an antenna a bit with no electrical problem, mechanical problems are a different story. as been said, approaching 90 degree bends gets worst as you get closer. Small bends shouldn't over-lap the antenna no matter how many small bends you make. The straighter the better if you can do it. If you can't, then bend it and see what happens, may not be all that 'bad'.
K9DWB
QRT
Thanks guys. Yep I am not tying an EFHW into knots or whatever. If it works, I may have a bit of a bend but I won't do anything close to a 90 degree bend. Hey there's hope! I'm still learning.
Oh quick curiosity question: is there maybe a mobile antenna that I can non-destructive mount on the apartment roof that'll do the job better than not doing anything, if a base style antenna cannot be done at all?
[radio decisions move here: Icom IC-7300 vs Yaesu FT-991 was: Antennas for a one story rental unit]
PS Moderators if you permit, may we allow this thread to remain open until I resolve what to do at soon to be QTH? Unless some rule requires it to be closed up for some reason that is. Appreciate it.
Oh quick curiosity question: is there maybe a mobile antenna that I can non-destructive mount on the apartment roof that'll do the job better than not doing anything, if a base style antenna cannot be done at all?
[radio decisions move here: Icom IC-7300 vs Yaesu FT-991 was: Antennas for a one story rental unit]
PS Moderators if you permit, may we allow this thread to remain open until I resolve what to do at soon to be QTH? Unless some rule requires it to be closed up for some reason that is. Appreciate it.
Last edited by a moderator:
Antenna
Now, back to your antenna question, yes, you could put a weighted stand on your roof with a vertical. There are a few options from DX Engineering. As for a vertical multiband, while not ideal, this Comet CHA-250B has good reviews by some of my friends for roof mounting. It acts as a shortened end fed antenna.
As for grounding, to keep from drilling in your wall, you might want to consider one of MFJ's Window Feed Through Panel to get the coax into the house. Still use a quality polyphaser and a ground rod.
I hope this helps answer many of your questions and gives you a few things to research. I recommend starting a spread sheet with prices/part numbers and descriptions for every single piece and part you will need to put this together.
SELF EDITED.....
Now, back to your antenna question, yes, you could put a weighted stand on your roof with a vertical. There are a few options from DX Engineering. As for a vertical multiband, while not ideal, this Comet CHA-250B has good reviews by some of my friends for roof mounting. It acts as a shortened end fed antenna.
As for grounding, to keep from drilling in your wall, you might want to consider one of MFJ's Window Feed Through Panel to get the coax into the house. Still use a quality polyphaser and a ground rod.
I hope this helps answer many of your questions and gives you a few things to research. I recommend starting a spread sheet with prices/part numbers and descriptions for every single piece and part you will need to put this together.
SELF EDITED.....
Last edited:
The Comet CHA-250B is a dummy load on a stick. Its the corn dog of the antenna world, you don't really want any of your friends or family eating one. Yea they might make some contacts across the country on 20m with 100w but I can do that with a couple of watts and a hunk of wire. On 40m they suck and 80m its down the toilet. These antennas are basically a 5:1 transformer and 20 something feet of pipe with no counterpoise. If you could add a lot of ground radials you would perk it up some but why bother? For about the same price you can pick up a used Cushcraft R8 or similar that actually does work.
My first question is: what's available on the roof? If there's a "stink pipe" up there, that'll probably handle at least a modest mobile (I had an airport wind sock stuck on mine, so I know it can handle at least a slight wind load). If you've got roof vents and they're old steel ones, a mag mount might work on those. If your roof gutters are solid enough (i.e. not plastic) some kind of modified car rain gutter clip arrangement might work. And so on...
- Status
Similar threads
