Anything out there like the DTR?

[Meestor_X]

Interesting! Write back on your thoughts on these radios once you've had a chance to put them through their paces.

Digital radio will never replace Analog radio, or at least not for a very long time. They're 2 different products for different purposes.
For one, they'd have to figure out how to get the latency (delay) down to 0 for digital to be workable in environments where analog is currently used.

 

[n1das]

Latency usually is not a problem most of the time. Users normally never notice it except when they hear themselves coming out of another radio. Latency can be a problem where timing of a message is critical, like when a cop yells "duck!" to other officers to avoid getting hit by gunfire. The latency with digital radios is such that the radio is no longer faster than a bullet.

I'm purposely planning to leave the "profile" set at the out of box default of 0000 to listen for other radios (DTR and DLR) still using the out of box default profile.

One thing I noticed about the battery pack (BT90) is that it is a standard cell phone pack used in Moto's last generation of "dumb" phones when smartphones began taking over in the cell phone market. This was recent enough that replacement packs should be readily available for a while. The DLR series and CLS (analog) series radios use a similar charger design and are compatible. A DLR radio will charge in a CLS single unit charger (SUC) or multi-unit charger (MUC) and CLS radios will charge in DLR chargers. Some of the DLR cloning features may not work in some cases depending on how you mix and match radios and chargers. The DLR User Guide talks about this.

No CPS is needed to set up most of the features in the DLR radios so I can immediately get up and running with them and start playing with them. The target market appears to be for users of the popular CLS1410 and CLS1110 portables. I see these portables way more often than any other UHF business bubble pack. I expect the DLR portables to become popular.

EDIT: Just checked tracking info....DELIVERED! They will be waiting for me when I get home later tonight.

 

[Meestor_X]

Like I say, Digital is needed when it's needed, Analog is needed when it's needed. The 2 are not interchangeable. Check with any rental house and if they even rent digital it'd be a very small percentage. Analog is everywhere and people want to be able to press the PTT and be heard immediately.
On the other hand, when you need the private calling/groups and other features of digital radio, analog won't cut it.

Does the DLR come with the programming (CPS) cable?

 

[n1das]

Like I say, Digital is needed when it's needed, Analog is needed when it's needed. The 2 are not interchangeable. Check with any rental house and if they even rent digital it'd be a very small percentage. Analog is everywhere and people want to be able to press the PTT and be heard immediately.
On the other hand, when you need the private calling/groups and other features of digital radio, analog won't cut it.

Does the DLR come with the programming (CPS) cable?

No programming cable comes with a DLR radio. It can be purchased separately. It is the same cable used on several other radios. No CPS is needed to program except for some of the features. You can get up and running right out of the box. You can program using the buttons and following the voice prompts. DLR radios can be cloned by wired cable between single unit chargers (SUC) or when in multi-unit chargers (MUC). They also have OTA cloning ability.

These are simple enough to operate and would be good as rentals.

I got my pair of DLR1060 radios unpacked and powered up last night. They are awesome. Audio output is LOUD, like the old NEXTELs and probably like the DTRs (never used a DTR portable so I dunno). They are comfortable to hold and use. They are cute radios.

In the coming weeks I will have some opportunity to do some range testing and compare it to performance a Moto TalkAbout GMRS/FRS bubble pack radio.

 

[PACNWDude]

Several years back I migrated from the Direct Connect phones, used for work, to the eXRS Tri-Square radios. After the eXRS radios failed I decided to spend the money on the DTR radios. The Motorola DTR series has worked very well for my uses.

Several friends have, on my recommendation, bought many DTR410's as package deals, and used them for small groups. No license, secure, decent range, loud audio and in a tough case. Great radio. DLR series, may be the cheaper alternative, time will tell.

 

[Meestor_X]

The programming cable looks like it might just be a USB A to Mini-USB B cable. I wonder if any cable like that would work?

 

[johnls7424]

I own a pair of Motorola DTR 650 radios. I have to tell you their not bad, but definitely not worth the money!! Granted they are secure cause they (1) use VSELP digital, and (2) the frequency hopping spread spectrum on the 900mhz makes it near impossible to lock on a decode voice transmissions...

I do have to say this... If you want good digital radios that do everything and more and have the newest AMBE 2 vocoder, had text messaging and is secure with actual encryption keys with front panel programming to boot... Go with the Tytera MD-380. I also own a pair of these and the digital clear voice between this and the DTR is like night and day. Only plus about the DTR is the case and radio itself is more built for business grade duty enviorment, the DMR Tytera not so much.. However the coverage with the Tytera is better and.. It is repeater capable whereas the DTR is not at all... Plus the screen on the Tytera even though it's chinese made is so so much clearer. Plus you get the benefit/bonus of running both analog and digital on the Tytera whereas the Motorola you do not!!!

I know this is off the forum but it had to be spoken here cause it is important to know that you have better options out there. Trust me

 

[Meestor_X]

Thanks for the info. Good to look at other options. From what I can tell, the Tytera wouldn't be a good fit for my application, but it looks like an interesting radio.

 

[johnls7424]

Thanks for the info. Good to look at other options. From what I can tell, the Tytera wouldn't be a good fit for my application, but it looks like an interesting radio.

Reason why I mention the Tytera is cause it's more affordable and the digital it uses its superb compared to the VSELP the DTR uses. Only benefit I've ever seen from the DTR is that it's license free. As opposed to the Tytera depending on which frequency you use may designate you being licensed to operate on such frequency lawfully

 

[Meestor_X]

For me, the advantages of the DTR:

Rugged
Reliable
License-Free
Cheap batteries & accessories
Relatively inexpensive New (good value for what you get)
Very inexpensive Used
Range indoors is excellent

The ruggedness and License-Free features are things I wouldn't give up for another radio.

As I've said, everyone's needs are different, but again, thank you for letting me know about those radios.

 

[RayAir]

I bought a pair of 550's back in 2005 and a gen 2 550 in 2009.

They're only 1 watt, but they have OK range, about 1.1 miles in an urban area.

Where they really excelled was when I took them on a Carnival Cruise and they gave me full ship coverage where several years ago I took a pair of 4 watt UHF Visar's and they only went a couple of decks.

Also, if you use the DTR in a high noise area the signal will completely distort and be totally unreadable.

They use the old VSELP vocoder.

Good to hear Moto is bringing back this technology with new generation radios.

I'd like to see 2 or 3W transmit and some improvements to the vocoder.

But for general comms they are very good.

 

[RayAir]

Also, they made a UK version DTR I believe and it used 2.4GHz instead of 900 ISM.

 

[johnls7424]

Like RAY AIR said above these radios are deemed useless in high noise environments. One good thing about them is they hold a battery life for a long time. Easily 14 hours of chatter on them. The programming software that is free from Motorola sucks.. and in all honesty you really don't need to program anything cause changes are you'll never encounter interference issues on these radios. Also you have to be smart when you choose talkgroup ID numbers on the software. I thought I was doing everything right and neither radio would talk back to each other. I had to rearrange a whole bunch of stuff to make it work.

Anywho: The Motorola DTR in my opinion is a love/hate relationship. For me it was I loved it at first.. Used it for what I needed it for. Hated it after I saw there was so much better options out there to choose from in the same price range or even cheaper. Down the road when I feel like it my mint condition 650 series radios with the programming cable and long whip antennas will be on the market here somewhere.

 

[RayAir]

I just looked at the DLRs, they look like upgraded FRS bubble pack radios.

I'd stick with a gen 2 550 or 650 with the longer 900 whip antenna.

DLR comes in a 2 or 6 channel radio but it looks like they give you 10,000 Privacy codes to chose from which probably just alter the hopping pattern.

The older DTRs I think gave you 10 or more public talk groups with 15 codes a channel and you could also program private calls by changing the 11 digit ID with the programmer.

This line of radio is good for Privacy. I've picked up chatter on public talk group 1 a few times, but never heard a peep on any other talk channel

Also a DTR radio has to be in range of another DTR otherwise the radio will bonk out and say User Not Available when you go to TX.

 

[n1das]

I own a pair of Motorola DTR 650 radios. I have to tell you their not bad, but definitely not worth the money!! Granted they are secure cause they (1) use VSELP digital, and (2) the frequency hopping spread spectrum on the 900mhz makes it near impossible to lock on a decode voice transmissions...

I do have to say this... If you want good digital radios that do everything and more and have the newest AMBE 2 vocoder, had text messaging and is secure with actual encryption keys with front panel programming to boot... Go with the Tytera MD-380. I also own a pair of these and the digital clear voice between this and the DTR is like night and day. Only plus about the DTR is the case and radio itself is more built for business grade duty enviorment, the DMR Tytera not so much.. However the coverage with the Tytera is better and.. It is repeater capable whereas the DTR is not at all... Plus the screen on the Tytera even though it's chinese made is so so much clearer. Plus you get the benefit/bonus of running both analog and digital on the Tytera whereas the Motorola you do not!!!

I know this is off the forum but it had to be spoken here cause it is important to know that you have better options out there. Trust me

Already very familiar with DMR and own several Hytera DMR portables and mobiles and have a Hytera DMR ham repeater on the air on 440. I also have some P25 radios and a few Kenwood NEXEDGE portables. I didn't get the DLR radios to compete with these.

Anyhow I'm playing with the DLRs and liking them so far. They are still going on their first battery charge.

I took a look at the on-air signal today with a spectrum analyzer sweeping the 902-928MHz band. You can see a "comb" of emissions come up while max holding a trace on the analyzer and watching the trace fill up as the signal hops all over the band. Hopping channels appear to be spaced 500kHz apart and the dwell time on any given channel is around 100ms. The transmit duty cycle appears to be low and therefore the time of occupancy on a given channel as the transmitter hops around is low. It should be able to easily coexist with other signals in the band. The 8-level FSK modulation could sort of be seen on individual channels although I didn't take a closer look.

 

[n1das]

I bought a pair of 550's back in 2005 and a gen 2 550 in 2009.

They're only 1 watt, but they have OK range, about 1.1 miles in an urban area.

Where they really excelled was when I took them on a Carnival Cruise and they gave me full ship coverage where several years ago I took a pair of 4 watt UHF Visar's and they only went a couple of decks.

Also, if you use the DTR in a high noise area the signal will completely distort and be totally unreadable.

They use the old VSELP vocoder.

Good to hear Moto is bringing back this technology with new generation radios.

I'd like to see 2 or 3W transmit and some improvements to the vocoder.

But for general comms they are very good.

Agree on all of the above.

The DLRs seem to make sense for the target market. Their killer app is where you see the popular analog CLS1410 and CLS1110 UHF business bubble packs used in restaurants and retail and hospitality environments. I can see the DLRs becoming popular and hopefully market demand will spur Moto to offer some more models with more power and more features. More market demand ==> more choices.

 

[RayAir]

Can these talk to DTRs? Is Privacy code 0000 the same as code 1 on the DTR 550?

I remember DTR had codes 15 codes per public channel to chose from.

How much did you pay for your DLRs?

If you see them appear in some stores next to the FRS/GMRS radios you'll probably hear some others out there.

 

[Meestor_X]

I remember DTR had codes 15 codes per public channel to chose from.

I'm not sure what you mean by "codes". The DTRs have 10 public channels. DTR 410 can do max 25 public groups, the 650 can do up to 50 public groups.

 

[Meestor_X]

Where they really excelled was when I took them on a Carnival Cruise and they gave me full ship coverage where several years ago I took a pair of 4 watt UHF Visar's and they only went a couple of decks.

I've found the indoor range to be better than my previous 4-watt CP200 and HT750s...

Also, if you use the DTR in a high noise area the signal will completely distort and be totally unreadable.

Have you tried setting the "ambient noise" setting? It reduces the mic sensitivity which helps in high-noise environments.
My biggest problem is in noisy environments hearing the speaker/mic. I'm still searching for a better speaker mic than the venerable HMN9026c. Moto CSRs don't even know what mics are compatible let alone which ones might be louder! However, the radio's internal speaker can go very loud.

 

[johnls7424]

I'm not sure what you mean by "codes". The DTRs have 10 public channels. DTR 410 can do max 25 public groups, the 650 can do up to 50 public groups.

The 550 and 650 are exactly the same. Only difference is the 650 is gray and it has remote disable for other radios. Hence the 650 would be issued to a manager or supervisor and the 550's would be fleet radios. That's the only difference.

As for public groups... I deleted all of mine out of the radio ( you have to leave 1 public group in unless you have a private channel to fill the void)... You can do front panel programming for certain things on the DTR as well. Cannot enter characters or numbers but you can change up some things and delete groups.