APRS send only for tracking?

[BMDaug]

Hey everyone, so I’ve built a manpack and am looking to use aprs smartbeaconing to send my location to family when I’m out hiking. They aren’t licensed operators so they cannot send me messages and I’m not attempting to send any messages or anything other than location points with my call sign and an ambient temperature reading. My radio has a built in GPS so I’m sending nmea sentences out to the TNC, then back to the radio.

All my family can do is see my location on an app like aprs.fi. I have the radio set up such that the TNC activates the ‘alternate PTT’ option via one of the accessory inputs so that regardless of the frequency I’m using, the TNC always transmits on the specified APRS frequency. I also have the aprs channel set ‘TX Busy’ so the radio will not transmit if there is a carrier detected on that channel. I’m really trying to get away from the phone so I’m not using any other aprs features at this time.

Is this one-way type setup frowned upon? I want to support the community, but I’m also operating from a battery so I want to keep transmissions to a minimum. While my TNC does support basic digipeating, I can’t do lots of repeating which causes increased battery consumption. I also don’t have anything set up to allow me to read received messages at this time…

All insight is appreciated as always!

-B

 

[mmckenna]

Nothing at all wrong with that. Many users out their only beacon their position. There is no requirement that you run a digipeater.

In fact, if you are in an urban or suburban area, there are probably already lots of digipeaters. Unlikely a manpack radio with low power roaming around is going to help much anyway.

 

[BMDaug]

Cool! Ya I’m up in the mountains around the Arkansas river valley. The radio will do 50w but I’m trying to keep it to less than 30w due to my proximity to the antenna and because of the antenna itself (Hascall-Denke MPDP25X100).

 

[AK9R]

While Bob Bruninga WB4APR SK frowned on one-way trackers, they are quite common in the APRS world. Bob envisioned APRS to be a local tactical information system with two-way short message capabilities. I see nothing wrong with one-way trackers and, as long as your station properly identifies, there's nothing wrong with them.

I would not bother with SmartBeaconing while hiking. If you walked at a constant speed, it might work. But, depending on where you are hiking, you will be starting and stopping frequently and that's not compatible with the way SmartBeaconing works. I suggest you set your beacon rate to a fixed rate of 2 minutes and have a nice day. Also, do not expect your beacons to result in turn-by-turn tracks on an APRS map. Some of your beacons will get through and some won't. While I am not a hiker, I do have experience using APRS at low speeds while tailing marathon "runners". The tail-end people in most marathons are walkers and our experience shows that a constant beacon rate works better than any SmartBeaconing settings we tried.

 

[BMDaug]

I would not bother with SmartBeaconing while hiking. If you walked at a constant speed, it might work. But, depending on where you are hiking, you will be starting and stopping frequently and that's not compatible with the way SmartBeaconing works. I suggest you set your beacon rate to a fixed rate of 2 minutes and have a nice day. Also, do not expect your beacons to result in turn-by-turn tracks on an APRS map. Some of your beacons will get through and some won't. While I am not a hiker, I do have experience using APRS at low speeds while tailing marathon "runners". The tail-end people in most marathons are walkers and our experience shows that a constant beacon rate works better than any SmartBeaconing settings we tried.

Thanks for the tip, that’s great advise! There are a whole bunch of smartbeacon settings I can adjust but if you are saying to just send at regular intervals, that sounds just fine to me!

Also, does anyone know how to find iGate locations near me? Maybe there just aren’t any. The closest one seems to be a town over about 25 miles away. Maybe it’s time to set one up! My zip is 81211 if anyone is curious.

Thanks,
Brian

 

[AK9R]

K0NR-1 and CLIMAX appear to be digipeaters near that ZIP Code. They both appear to be I-gating through WD4IXD-12 or K0DRJ.

 

[vagrant]

Perhaps beacon every 30-60 minutes as you are not traveling anywhere fast. This will also save on your battery.

For safety I use a Garmin Inreach device which allows tracking and text messaging. It uses iridium satellites improving your chances of reaching someone.

 

[MUTNAV]

I'm kind of interested in the manpack that you built.... If you want to share a photo or two I'm sure it would be welcomed...

Even 30 watts seems like a lot of power to me.... But when you start operating it, you'll have a better idea about whether you want to lower it or not...

Thanks and good luck..
Joel

 

[mmckenna]

APRS beacon messages are pretty short, so the duty cycle on the transmitter isn't very high. Unless you have an exceptionally small battery, it shouldn't be much of an issue. After all, if you are hiking with a large radio in your pack, you probably are not out overnight. Set the beacon time to every few minutes and you should be just fine.

And, you probably don't need much power. If 5 watts won't get you to the nearest digi, you probably have some other issues that more power isn't going to overcome. There's a lot of people running 5 watts or less. Even stuff in the milliwatt range can make it through.

 

[BMDaug]

I’ll snap a few photos when I get home tonight!

It’s a London Bridge Trading Communicators pack carrying a 30ah Bioenno battery powering a Harris XG100M out to a Hascall-Denke manpack dipole on an adjustable carbon fiber mast.

I probably could digipeat and be okay. The pack is really designed for multi day trips and emcomms hence the part 90 radio that supports public service bands. I’m posting here because aprs isn’t a commercial thing. The radio is completely controlled with a handheld control head so I can use it while hiking.

I’ll probably do five min. intervals. I know I could do a Garmin InReach but what’s the fun in that?!?!?!?

K0NR-1 and CLIMAX appear to be digipeaters near that ZIP Code. They both appear to be I-gating through WD4IXD-12 or K0DRJ.

Where did you find that? I can’t see any of those call signs… what database are you looking at?

Thanks for all the responses everyone!!

-Brian

 

[mmckenna]

I’ll snap a few photos when I get home tonight!

It’s a London Bridge Trading Communicators pack carrying a 30ah Bioenno battery

30ah should be plenty for sending out positions every few minutes, even with a fair amount of talking.

 

[AK9R]

Where did you find that? I can’t see any of those call signs… what database are you looking at?

I looked up the ZIP Code that you gave, 81211, on APRS.fi.

K0NR-1 is a digipeater south of Antero Junction. His beacons are hitting WD4IXD-12 north of Hartsel. There's a KF0CRT-9 that appears to be mobile southeast of Hartsel. His beacons have either been heard direct by WD4IXD-12 or by the PANDO digi which is bouncing to the VAILMT digi and then I-gating through SUNLGT which is south of Glenwood. There's also a SALIDA I-gate east of Maysville that is picking up some beacons.

 

[MUTNAV]

I’ll snap a few photos when I get home tonight!

It’s a London Bridge Trading Communicators pack carrying a 30ah Bioenno battery powering a Harris XG100M out to a Hascall-Denke manpack dipole on an adjustable carbon fiber mast.

I probably could digipeat and be okay. The pack is really designed for multi day trips and emcomms hence the part 90 radio that supports public service bands. I’m posting here because aprs isn’t a commercial thing. The radio is completely controlled with a handheld control head so I can use it while hiking.

I’ll probably do five min. intervals. I know I could do a Garmin InReach but what’s the fun in that?!?!?!?




Where did you find that? I can’t see any of those call signs… what database are you looking at?

Thanks for all the responses everyone!!

-Brian

Do you intend on multi-day backpacking type trips, or summits on the air (SOTA) daytrips? Your kit looks a little heavy for backpacking IMHO.

Thanks
Joel

 

[BMDaug]

Do you intend on multi-day backpacking type trips, or summits on the air (SOTA) daytrips? Your kit looks a little heavy for backpacking IMHO.

Thanks
Joel

Some multi day backpack trips, some multi day vehicle trips in a variety of vehicles including other people’s vehicles, some SOTAing for sure. I’m a big guy and I’m used to up to about a 60lb pack. Also, my backpacking gear is minimal and light. Part of the reason I designed the pack the way I did is because I drive a lot of different vehicles, some I own and some I don’t, and I don’t want to limit which vehicle I can operate from. I do plan to do two or three day trips on foot, so nothing extended and mostly stuff like out one day, then chill at camp the middle day, and back on the third day, not tons of mileage. It’s also perfect for the unlikely bugout scenario, at least I think so…

I looked up the ZIP Code that you gave, 81211, on APRS.fi.

K0NR-1 is a digipeater south of Antero Junction. His beacons are hitting WD4IXD-12 north of Hartsel. There's a KF0CRT-9 that appears to be mobile southeast of Hartsel. His beacons have either been heard direct by WD4IXD-12 or by the PANDO digi which is bouncing to the VAILMT digi and then I-gating through SUNLGT which is south of Glenwood. There's also a SALIDA I-gate east of Maysville that is picking up some beacons.

Okay I found them! Thanks! It’s way further than I anticipated… definitely not line of sight. There are some pretty solid mountains between me and any of that!

-B

 

[KE5MC]

Knife edge refraction might occasionally make it over one mountain. Not sure if more than one is possible. Likely a test hike to see if you can reach your objective.
Good Luck!
Mike

 

[BMDaug]

A change in direction…

So after reading more about APRS, and some rearranging of budgets, I’ve decided on a different path… APRS is too cool to just be sending out position data. I think I’m missing out on a lot and potentially causing other people to miss out as well. I’ve now started setting up a Panasonic FZ-M1 running dire wolf and aprsisce/32 which will interface with the radio via a Masters Communications DRA-30. This way I can Digipeat and even iGate when I am in range of cellular (FZ-M1 has 4G LTE). This also allows me to meet other goals, like being able to program the radios on the go, use the entire APRS feature set and use VARA FM. All told, the two Panasonic batteries I have should total around 27 hours of continuous use, which is in line with my goals for operating time between charges.

I’ll snap some photos of the completed setup once it’s all put back together, but at the moment it’s just a bunch of parts…

 

[AK9R]

You'll need one more piece of software. The DRA-30 is a sound card interface, but it's not a TNC. If you want to run a software TNC with the DRA-30, you'll need something like AGWPE, UZ7HO, or Direwolf. More info here: Introduction to Sound Card Packet with AGWPE

Or, use a hardware TNC. You can buy used Kantronics KPC3+ TNCs for less than $100. Or, a Byonics TinyTrak4 would work. Whatever hardware TNC you use needs to use the KISS protocol if you plan to digipeat.

 

[BMDaug]

You'll need one more piece of software. The DRA-30 is a sound card interface, but it's not a TNC. If you want to run a software TNC with the DRA-30, you'll need something like AGWPE, UZ7HO, or Direwolf. More info here: Introduction to Sound Card Packet with AGWPE

Or, use a hardware TNC. You can buy used Kantronics KPC3+ TNCs for less than $100. Or, a Byonics TinyTrak4 would work. Whatever hardware TNC you use needs to use the KISS protocol if you plan to digipeat.

Totally! Thanks for that! I do have Direwolf installed! I chose a sound card interface with hardware PTT capability because Direwolf claims better decoding abilities than hardware TNCs. Maybe that’s wrong and if I have issues, I can revisit that later, but the DRA-30 seemed like a really well designed device. I really like the feature set and the website is well organized and super informative! It was also under $100…

The radio is out having the power connector replaced. It was damaged when the radio was shipped to me. Once that’s back, everything should be ready to connect up and start hiking. The weather is certainly right for it!

-B

 

[vagrant]

I currently use DireWolf for a RX only iGate. A buddy uses DireWolf for a TX/RX message only station. We also have high level digipeaters we manage and currently handle the Internet part on the valley floor.

For hardware I use some old Pi and the RTL-SDR USB dongle. I forgot what my buddy is using for his setup. If he decides to take his down, I have a Kenwood D710 waiting on a shelf. Personally, I could do without the extra RF blasting at the house, so the plan is to get some Internet at the digipeater site I handle. I'll keep my RX only going in case the Internet goes down up at the site.

Being able to send and receive messages is a feature that well outshines positioning alone. We do this because phone service is not available where we go in the Sierra's.

 

[BMDaug]

I'm kind of interested in the manpack that you built.... If you want to share a photo or two I'm sure it would be welcomed...

Even 30 watts seems like a lot of power to me.... But when you start operating it, you'll have a better idea about whether you want to lower it or not...

Thanks and good luck..
Joel

Well sorry it took a while, but here are some pics! It’s all set up and ready to go now. With this rig, I can fill-in digipeat and igate APRS (when I’ve got cell service), APRS beacon while communicating simplex or working nearby repeaters, use WinLink via VARA FM, monitor (and technically respond) on NIFOG channels, monitor the Colorado DTRS, and communicate with all conventional and p25 users on VHF, UHF, and 7/800 bands. I can also use the Toughpad to program both Harris radios if necessary, though both radios are FPP. The rig will operate continuously for about about 24 hours. The pack free-stands and has a carbon fiber boom that will extend to 48” putting the antenna about 72” above the ground.

London Bridge Trading Communicators Bag
Hascall-Denke MPDP100X25
Harris XG100M with HHC-731
Panasonic Toughpad FZ-M1
Masters Communications DRA-30
Powerwerx Watt Meter
Harris XG100P with OTTO Bluetooth SpeakerMic

-B