AR-DV1: My final evaluation

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AA6IO

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I am posting this last message about the AR-DV1 in a separate thread because it seems to correspond to post on different threads about this receiver. If the moderators feel this should be part of an existing thread, please go ahead and move it.
I was already to go ahead and purchase this receiver after having beta-tested it for about 1 month. As many of you know, I have gone back and forth in my opinions about the AR-DV1. I finally concluded that this is worthy of consideration as a wideband receiver that has digital modes. For scanning function, it still leaves a lot to be desired. No trunking, very slow search/scan speeds, only able to currently scan one bank (50 channels) at a time, and no current software.
I had one final conversation with Taka today at AOR about this radio. I told him I consider the radio to be a decent wideband receiver, provided you add some preselection. Without an MFJ tuner on the antenna input to this radio, I can hear AM broadcast stations up to 21 Mhz (15 meters). It really overloads very easily.
I also have told Taka that without trunking and much better scan speeds, this would be of limited use to many of us reading these threads. I did tell Taka, however, that there have been some favorable responses to the radio. Taka is reading these threads, so he knows what I am posting.
Taka told me today that he has spoken to the president of AOR about the lack of trunking, slow scan speeds, etc; and he told me the president said "we are not competing against Uniden, we are selling a receiver, not a scanner." I asked Taka if that meant that "we won't see trunking or better scanner-like speeds on this radio" and his answer was "Yes, this is a wideband receiver and not a scanner, and not everyone will be interested in the receiver."
I told Taka that despite being a decent wideband receiver, that is not what I was looking for in this radio. I was hoping that trunking might be considered at some point, and that the scan/search speeds are not what I need. I don't expect 100 channels/sec, but I was hoping for better than 10 per sec (at best).
Taka said to me, "this radio probably does not meet your requirements." I agreed, saying "I'm sure some may find the radio useful, but that I already have good receivers for up to 30 Mhz, most notably my SDRs.
So I returned the radio today to its home at AOR, and my beta-testing and interest in the radio, despite some good qualities, is done. I told Taka that he can keep one of my 536HPs (he has been using it for a couple of weeks) for as long as he wants. He said he was done with it and returned it to me.
My final comment was "how did you like the 536HP?" His final comment was "I liked it very much, I am probably going to buy one next week."

So the bottom line seems to be that if you are interested in a "wideband receiver" with a lot of digital modes, the AR-DV1 may be your answer. For those of you, like me, who are looking more for a "scanner-like unit" with DMR and NXDN, that also has trunking, can scan at relatively high speeds, and has a lot of the features we have come to expect in higher-end scanners, you will not find it in the AR-DV1.

Now I have time to play with my new CS-750 and CS-800 and set these up for DMR, which we have quite a bit of here in Southern California.
 

Citywide173

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Steve,

Thank you for an honest and fair evaluation of a radio that I had a lot of interest in. I had hoped this would be the first foray into an expansion of the industry into a true multimode scanner, but it appears that AOR doesn't want to be the trendsetter. I know Taka is reading, and I am sure he has gotten some great feedback, but it needs to be the President of AOR reading these threads to see the market share they are missing out on.
 

tumegpc

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Steve ,
Thank you for the AR-DV1 update. Was there any talk about the AOR AR8200DB ? I know this is a modified version of the AR8200Mk3 that adds P25. If I remember right the scan speeds acceptable, around 30-40 channels per second.
 

AA6IO

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Ed: I also was hoping for the beginning of development of a multimode scanner, but that doesn't seem to be where AOR sees this AR-DV1 going. Its a wideband receiver with digital modes. Basically Taka said to me, Steve (and though he didn't say this; he also meant, tell your friends on RRDB) this is not a scanner and is not intended to compete with scanners.
Tumegpc: No discussion about any other receivers.
Steve
 

mancow

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I hope Taka points out this post in this thread where I tell the president of AOR he's a MORON.

He sounds like a petulant child ignoring what the customers want because "dammit I want to build receivers only". If he wants to remain frozen in the 90s so be it.

Technology and economics will correct that problem one way or another.
 

AA6IO

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Taka, I hope you are reading this thread. Perhaps you would like to get on and discuss some of the features of the radio with all my colleagues on the RRDB. They would like to hear what plans are taking place for the AR-DV1. I don't want to misinterpret anything you have said. As you can see, there are a lot of people on this list who might consider the AR-DV1 if a few more features were available. Thank you very much. どうも有り難うございました。 今後とも宜しくお願いします。
Steve
 

AA6IO

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Mancow,
At this point, I do indeed hope Taka is reading these threads and begins to address some of these issues. To the moderators, pardon my use of Japanese on this forum. I believe Taka might be more willing to post if I can help along in Japanese. Thank you everybody.
Steve
 

mancow

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Mancow,
At this point, I do indeed hope Taka is reading these threads and begins to address some of these issues. To the moderators, pardon my use of Japanese on this forum. I believe Taka might be more willing to post if I can help along in Japanese. Thank you everybody.
Steve

Thanks for trying to wake the innovatively challenged for us. Your reviews have been great. It's just sad to see so much potential wither into another obscure product remembered only during accidental google search hits which is undoubtably what this thing will become.

If I were the president I would be sitting down with the ADCR25 guy and a few of the software guys from here like Proscan and the guy that made the HackRF based multi-channel feed. Put all that talent and innovation with fresh perspectives together with AOR's classic RF experience and it would be epic.

Imagine an AR-DV1 with all flavor trunking and all digital mode receive, built in web server with custom control software? They could even offer an SDR based one for people who want to go that route. Why do they have to COMPETE with Uniden? Uniden obviously has no interest in the table top knob twisting crowd. They could fill that void.

Oh well, like I said, it's a self correcting problem.
 
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N9JIG

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AOR's competition is not Uniden and Whistler so much as it is Icom and others. While I would love to see an all-mode scanner or a trunking capable desktop receiver it isn't here yet.

The DV-1 is a step up the ladder and I see it as a proof of concept that a consumer grade radio can be made with DMR and other digital modes than just P25. It isn't intended as a scanner, and is in keeping with the AOR tradition of "receivers' vs. "scanners". $1200 is a lot of money and there are not that many people that have that kind of money for a receiver like this.

The next step would of course be a trunking capable scanner with DMR and NXDN, but will that be by Uniden, Whistler, AOR or someone else?
 

RayAir

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I have to say, I'm really glad I did not buy a DV-1. I was very close to pulling the trigger.

Thankfully, I started playing with DSD+ in April to monitor some DMR and NXDN systems.

I have one CS700 dedicated to scanning DMR Conventional and two 700's to scan Cap+ and Con+.

And now DSD+ 1.080 has trunking capability for TRBO and NXDN systems and it's only going to get better with future releases!

I'd rather give $1200 to the guys that made DSD than pay $1200 for a half baked AOR DV-1.
 

grem467

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What I don't think they realize is while having digital decode of these various modes, simply decoding audio in the conventional mode isn't enough. With digital comes trunking, talk groups, etc. to ignore the importance of these "other than audio" features is simply a half-baked implementation.
 

KC1UA

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This is my line of thinking as well, Rich. That said I understand where hobbyists are coming from.

1. A receiver arrives that is the first ever to have the capability to decode these modes.
2. It is a receiver, not a scanner, and therefore can't follow trunked systems in the modes it is capable of receiving.
3. Therefore, instead of taking it as a step in the right direction, it automatically sucks and is vilified.

Once again, there is a marked difference between a communications receiver and a scanner. I understand the pain here, but stand by kids, there is potential. No SDR out of the box supports anything until software is introduced to make it actually do something. Why should this receiver be any different, aside from the price? And regarding the price, a true quality communications receiver always exceeds the cost of a scanner by a long shot.

Don't give up the ghost quite yet. If nothing else it may get the likes of Uniden and Whistler to get going on something that does what you want it to. It's a beginning, maybe not the one you're looking for, but it's a beginning.

AOR's competition is not Uniden and Whistler so much as it is Icom and others. While I would love to see an all-mode scanner or a trunking capable desktop receiver it isn't here yet.

The DV-1 is a step up the ladder and I see it as a proof of concept that a consumer grade radio can be made with DMR and other digital modes than just P25. It isn't intended as a scanner, and is in keeping with the AOR tradition of "receivers' vs. "scanners". $1200 is a lot of money and there are not that many people that have that kind of money for a receiver like this.

The next step would of course be a trunking capable scanner with DMR and NXDN, but will that be by Uniden, Whistler, AOR or someone else?
 

mancow

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Communications receiver.

That meant something in 1995. It no longer does. If it's going to receive communications it needs to adhere to the protocol to allow that. Chasing what is basically slow spread spectrum comms around manually is a joke. It's lazy business practice relying on the hope that the same old tired methods will yield some sales.
 

Boatanchor

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Communications receiver.

That meant something in 1995. It no longer does. If it's going to receive communications it needs to adhere to the protocol to allow that. Chasing what is basically slow spread spectrum comms around manually is a joke. It's lazy business practice relying on the hope that the same old tired methods will yield some sales.

And, this is why a lot of hobbyists and most Government agencies are moving across to SDR based receiving platforms.

Once you convert the fundamental frequency to an I/Q stream and do all the demodulation by software, there really are no constraints on what you can do or what you can listen to. Another digital mode comes along in 12 months time, not a problem, simply write another software 'Plugin'.

I'm afraid that once you've experienced a >8Mhz wide spectrum display from a half decent $200 SDR front end, with almost infinately adjustable IF bandwidth and other useful features, it really is hard to go back to a tuning knob, an antiquated memory/scanning system and a single frequency readout that provides absolutely no feedback as to what is happening around your tuned frequency.

Never again will I spend $1000+ on a hardware constrained receiver that only permits me to listen to a few modes that the manufacturer/hardware allows..

I am likely to spend $1000 on a better SDR though :)
 
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mancow

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And, this is why a lot of hobbyists and most Government agencies are moving across to SDR based receiving platforms.

Once you convert the fundamental frequency to an I/Q stream and do all the demodulation by software, there really are no constraints on what you can do or what you can listen to. Another digital mode comes along in 12 months time, not a problem, simply write another software 'Plugin'.

I'm afraid that once you've experienced a >8Mhz wide spectrum display from a half decent $200 SDR front end, with almost infinately adjustable IF bandwidth and other useful features, it really is hard to go back to a tuning knob, a single frequency readout and antiquated memory/scanning system.

Never again will I spend $1000+ on a hardware constrained receiver that only permits me to listen to a few modes that the manufacturer/hardware allows..

I am likely to spend $1000 on a better SDR though :)

Exactly
 

AA6IO

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Once again, there is a marked difference between a communications receiver and a scanner. I understand the pain here, but stand by kids, there is potential.

Scott,
I agree that the AR-DV1 is a good start in the right direction. And certainly, a good receiver is always going to cost more than a scanner. My problem here, however, is does the word "receiver" always have to mean "no trunking?" I don't understand why we can't have a good receiver that also does trunking, scans rapidly, and is linked to computer control software for analysis of the complex systems that are out there.
Yes, I know SDR technology is out there, and I use it, but having a stand-alone unit with such features would be great. I thought this was the direction the AR-DV1 would take. Perhaps down the line it will.
I do hope some of you posting on these threads get a chance to use the AR-DV1, even if it is just temporary. I would like to hear your comments.
Steve
 

KC1UA

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I do hope some of you posting on these threads get a chance to use the AR-DV1, even if it is just temporary. I would like to hear your comments.
Steve

My friend Jeff from the Hamstation has shipped one to me to check out. It should be arriving Tuesday and I'll look forward to putting it through the paces.

I am absolutely partial to SDR technology now, to be certain. It is hard to go back to conventional methods of monitoring after using one. The part of me that enjoys DX'ing VHF and UHF signals enjoys a combination of using SDR's and hardware receivers. Obvious SDR advantage is seeing that large chunk of spectrum and pointing and clicking to tune a signal. But, an SDR is still a communications receiver, and is dependent on the software written for it to do the jobs of trunktracking, digital decoding, etc. While the DV1 will never have the spectrum capability that SDR's do, maybe some accompanying software will as AOR likes to say about their outboard decoders "spice up our radio hobby". :D

I'll be back to comment once the DV1 is connected into the radio room.
 

slicerwizard

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So this "receiver" can retune channels ten times per second? That's plenty fast enough to be be a digital trunking scanner. This puppy just needs the right firmware. Firmware that AOR isn't willing to develop ATM.
 

AA6IO

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BamaScan, on another thread, and the only other person I know of who is regularly posting on his AR-DV1 seems to be having a positive experience. I'll be interested in Scot's comments as well. I tell you, in the two days I have been without the AR-DV1, I have been listening to NXDN and DMR via a tapped scanner or SDR together with DSD+, They work fine, but I have to admit that using a dedicated radio that you can just turn on is a lot easier.
Steve
 

n2pqq

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BamaScan, on another thread, and the only other person I know of who is regularly posting on his AR-DV1 seems to be having a positive experience. I'll be interested in Scot's comments as well. I tell you, in the two days I have been without the AR-DV1, I have been listening to NXDN and DMR via a tapped scanner or SDR together with DSD+, They work fine, but I have to admit that using a dedicated radio that you can just turn on is a lot easier.
Steve

OH NO Steve are you changing your mind again ? (LOL)
 
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