Assigning objects to multiple 'banks'...

[b52hbuff]

So I am trying to understand the 'power' and flexibility of the GRE's memory format. Let's ignore V-Folders for a moment and focus on the active bank. I understand there are 1800 objects that can be assigned to 20 virtual banks. These objects can be frequencies, talk group ids, search limits, etc.

My question (misunderstanding) is what is the real power/usage of being able to assign an object to multiple banks?

If you consider a more 'conventional' scanner, you'd assign frequencies to banks. Assume one bank was used for your local city, and another was assigned to mutual aid. If you wanted to listen to both, you'd enable both banks. If you want to listen to either individually, you could do that too. So I'm not understadning the 'flexibility' of assigning multiple things to different banks?? Why not just enable both banks?

The more I thought about it, I can understand the benefit of assigning a 'TSYS' object to multiple banks, since that eliminates real duplication. And then the 'banks' are really just subdivisions of TGIDs.

Maybe there's another advantage of assigning conventional and TRS objects into a single bank. But in the Uniden model, you could just as easily assign these to the same key.

So back at the ranch, can someone provide some real world examples as to why having a single object assigned to different banks provides some functionalty that is really better than what has been done before?

Thanks!

 

[n4jri]

For me, it allows me to mix my objects in combinations that separate banks can't provide.

For example, I have bank called 'security.' It has a lot of conventional freqs for malls, office buildings, factories, hotels, etc. But it also has TG's from contract security agencies using various SMR's, and for governmental security forces whose radios are on various federal, state and local trunked systems.

Mapping these objects to multiple scan groups allows me to focus either on a locality or a function. And I don't have to create duplicate objects in order to have certain items in more than one bank. This has saved me a boatload of space compared to how I did things with the PRO-96.

Second example: I sort most of my main scanlists by locality, and the 'locality' scanlists generally include busy like police dispatch & fire response tac's. I take the Fire/EMS dispatch TG's and police surveillance TG's and map them also to lists dedicated those functions:
SL#1 - City A (police dispatch, fire tacs, & all other kinds of TG's)
SL#2 - City B (police dispatch, fire tacs, & all other kinds of TG's)
SL#3 - City C (police dispatch, fire tacs, & all other kinds of TG's)
SL#4 - Fire/EMS dispatch only (Citie's A, B, & C, plus Fort D & Major Airport)
SL#5 - Police Surveillance (Citie's A, B & C)
SL#6 - Fort D Army Base
SL#7 - Major Airport

The biggest advantage is that you can conserve a lot of memory blocks by assigning the same TG to multiple places. The biggest disadvantage is that if you lock out an object, you lock it out of ALL scanlists. (which can be remedied by creating duplicate objects where needed)

It's an awful lot of options open.

73/Allen (N4JRI)

 

[b52hbuff]

Mapping these objects to multiple scan groups allows me to focus either on a locality or a function. And I don't have to create duplicate objects in order to have certain items in more than one bank. This has saved me a boatload of space compared to how I did things with the PRO-96.

Thanks for the response. I'll digest a bit more, but I wanted to clarify this issue...

You never had to duplicate objects between scan lists (or banks in older radios). All you had to do was enable both banks.

 

[DonS]

Thanks for the response. I'll digest a bit more, but I wanted to clarify this issue...

You never had to duplicate objects between scan lists (or banks in older radios). All you had to do was enable both banks.

But, if you wanted to scan 3 different combinations of things:
1. All Police
2. All Fire
3. Just Police Dispatch and Fire Dispatch
you had to either duplicate items or go through a bunch of key presses to lock things out. On the PSR-500, you'd enter everything once, but use different combinations of scan lists to "enable" what you wanted to monitor: all police TGs in scan list 1, police dispatch also in scan list 3; all fire TGs in scan list 2, fire dispatch also in scan list 3.

 

[b52hbuff]

But, if you wanted to scan 3 different combinations of things:
1. All Police
2. All Fire
3. Just Police Dispatch and Fire Dispatch
you had to either duplicate items or go through a bunch of key presses to lock things out. On the PSR-500, you'd enter everything once, but use different combinations of scan lists to "enable" what you wanted to monitor: all police TGs in scan list 1, police dispatch also in scan list 3; all fire TGs in scan list 2, fire dispatch also in scan list 3.

Right but in the GRE world, you'd eat up 3 scan lists/banks. In Uniden/legacy case, you'd eat up two 'banks'. So you'd have:

1. Enable PD bank
2. Enable FD bank
3. Enable both banks.

So I realize this is a personal usage issue. But thanks for the responses to help me think outside my own box...

 

[Landman]

I do what Don does. I put all police in one, all fire in one etc, but another scan list is reserved for certain "select" channels being the main dispatch channels for the agencies on the system. That way when the system is busy and the talk channels and the plate running channels, etc are busy I can listen to just the calls being dispatched and what is going on with those. I put the dispatch channels in each corresponding agency's scan list as well as in scan list 1 which is my scan list for select channels.

 

[DonS]

Right but in the GRE world, you'd eat up 3 scan lists/banks. In Uniden/legacy case, you'd eat up two 'banks'. So you'd have:

1. Enable PD bank
2. Enable FD bank
3. Enable both banks.

So I realize this is a personal usage issue. But thanks for the responses to help me think outside my own box...

Your #3 doesn't do what my #3 does. Your #3 is "all PD and all FD". Mine is "Police Dispatch and Fire Dispatch only".

Additionally, in the pre-PSR-500 GRE world, those 3 "banks" would each have to have a copy of all trunking system information; not so in the PSR-500.

 

[b52hbuff]

Your #3 doesn't do what my #3 does. Your #3 is "all PD and all FD". Mine is "Police Dispatch and Fire Dispatch only".

Additionally, in the pre-PSR-500 GRE world, those 3 "banks" would each have to have a copy of all trunking system information; not so in the PSR-500.

Ok, got it. Thanks.

I didn't get the 'cherry picking' aspect of it.

 

[rvawatch]

its not really saving on "banks" or "scanlists" but is saving more on the actual percentage of memory used. That is why there has been a debate on whether GRE should have included more scanlists than just 20, allowing some to utilize the full amount of available memory.

It's kinda like this if you are familiar with Windows at all...

With the new method: you have a file saved in your C: drive. you can make shortcuts (scanlists) to that original file in the start menu, the desktop, my documents, whatever. These shortcuts can be mixed in with other different varieties of shortcuts. The only (significant) space being taken up is by the one and only original file.

old scanner method: to access the file from multiple locations, you would actually have to have full copies of the exact same file on your desktop, startmenu, etc... using up much more overall memory.


thats kinda just a different way of looking at it i guess.

 

[unitcharlie]

With the new method: you have a file saved in your C: drive. you can make shortcuts (scanlists) to that original file in the start menu, the desktop, my documents, whatever. These shortcuts can be mixed in with other different varieties of shortcuts. The only (significant) space being taken up is by the one and only original file.

Ok, let me try this on for size.... I have a number of freqs that I want to monitor in different locations, these freqs are in the ALL OBJECTS menu.... I can assign those freqs to all the scanlists I desire. These are primarily State Police freqs... so I have local agencies in Scanlist 1 and I want to listen to the State Police Transmitters operating in the same area as the local agencies then I activate those State freqs in the same scan list... and subsequent scanlists where I want to monitor them. So this differs from the Uniden method in that once I have a freq in the scanner's working memory I can assign it to one or as many scanlists as I desire/need? AND, the virtual memory is similar to the PRO96's in that I can take sets of up to 20 scanlists with the 1800 objects therein and assign them to specific V Folders for use as desired....

I am trying to learn this system to effectively program the scanners without having one in hand, yet....

Thanx for bearing with this geriatric scannist as I learn the new stuff....

 

[rvawatch]

Ok, let me try this on for size.... I have a number of freqs that I want to monitor in different locations, these freqs are in the ALL OBJECTS menu.... I can assign those freqs to all the scanlists I desire. These are primarily State Police freqs... so I have local agencies in Scanlist 1 and I want to listen to the State Police Transmitters operating in the same area as the local agencies then I activate those State freqs in the same scan list... and subsequent scanlists where I want to monitor them. So this differs from the Uniden method in that once I have a freq in the scanner's working memory I can assign it to one or as many scanlists as I desire/need? AND, the virtual memory is similar to the PRO96's in that I can take sets of up to 20 scanlists with the 1800 objects therein and assign them to specific V Folders for use as desired....

I am trying to learn this system to effectively program the scanners without having one in hand, yet....

Thanx for bearing with this geriatric scannist as I learn the new stuff....

if i understand what you said correctly, then yes thats right. once a freq or system is in the scanner, you can assign it (or shortcut it) to as many scanlists as you want.

 

[unitcharlie]

Thanx for the quick response.... that will make the PSR 500 as versatile as the PRO 96 for the way I scan....

 

[rvawatch]

yea well theres not much for us to do at almost 4 am is there? lol

which reminds me..i should prbly go to bed.

 

[wwhitby]

What I do is assign mutual aid or emergency frequencies to multiple scanlists. I set my scanlists up by geographic area (usually by county.)

 

[unitcharlie]

yea well theres not much for us to do at almost 4 am is there? lol
which reminds me..i should prbly go to bed.

Actually, at 0400EST I am supposed to be taking a lunch break, which was short this morning... as I pressed the submit button I was out the door for a four county high speed car chase.....

What I do is assign mutual aid or emergency frequencies to multiple scanlists. I set my scanlists up by geographic area (usually by county.)

That is basically how I have all of my lists assembled--except the 396...because some of the freqs are germane to a small area, some to the larger area... this will help me get more into each scanlist, I can't wait to get one in my hands and fondle it lovingly (I know, that statement qualifies me as obsessed!).

Once again, thanx to everyone who helping me with this new scanner, just as it happened a few years ago when I was learning how to trunk... rr.com is AWESOME!

 

[b52hbuff]

its not really saving on "banks" or "scanlists" but is saving more on the actual percentage of memory used. That is why there has been a debate on whether GRE should have included more scanlists than just 20, allowing some to utilize the full amount of available memory.

It's kinda like this if you are familiar with Windows at all...

With the new method: you have a file saved in your C: drive. you can make shortcuts (scanlists) to that original file in the start menu, the desktop, my documents, whatever. These shortcuts can be mixed in with other different varieties of shortcuts. The only (significant) space being taken up is by the one and only original file.

old scanner method: to access the file from multiple locations, you would actually have to have full copies of the exact same file on your desktop, startmenu, etc... using up much more overall memory.


thats kinda just a different way of looking at it i guess.

Well, I think they should have included more than 20. They're trying to compete with the Uniden 396, which has 100.

I understand your concept of 'duplication', but unfortunately, the GRE has it's own type of required duplication. If you want to have a Mutual Aid bank and have it available in all V-Folders, you have to keep a copy in each one. In the 396, I can have a set of MA frequencies assigned to a quick key and it is always available. No duplication is required.

 

[kikito]

Well, I think they should have included more than 20. They're trying to compete with the Uniden 396, which has 100.

But let's not forget that the Uniden BCD396T still ONLY allows 20 groups per system. And you only get 10 quick-keys for those 20 groups. For many people and depending how you arrange stuff, you are still limited to subdivide a system in only 10 unique ways. Or you can lump everything into a System but only up to 200 TGs and what would be the point of having all those quick-keys. So you still have to duplicate and/or consolidate, one way or another. You have to duplicate for sure if you want to monitor more than one site at a time. So the PSR-500 with only 20+2 scanlists works more efficient for me and others.

And of course GRE is trying to compete with Uniden, that's why they now offer about 2 dozen features or more that Uniden doesn't have....

If you want to have a Mutual Aid bank and have it available in all V-Folders, you have to keep a copy in each one. In the 396, I can have a set of MA frequencies assigned to a quick key and it is always available. No duplication is required.

On the other hand, with the 396 I have to duplicate a system 18 times, along with its talkgroups, using up about 40-50% of the memory just in our statewide system alone. And I'm limited to 200 talkgroups. Nevermind the tediousness of having to update each system every time you change something.....

On the PSR-500 you can also program stuff and leave it "unassigned". Which works pretty good and easy for TSYS objects since you can assign them later to a scanlist when you need them. No need to tuck away everything you don't use often in a V-folder. Another way, you can assign several TSYS objects to a scanlist and lock out the ones you're not using often. Then unlock them when you need them and lock others which is also a fairly easy procedure of scrolling (just like in the Uniden) to find stuff to lock/unlock. Which after segregating so much in my Uniden, scrolling to find what I wanted was the usual way for me. I can probably come up with several more ways but that should get people's ideas rolling on how to find ingenious ways to work with the memory system.

 

[scanfan03]

To tell you the truth, I like the 246Ts memory layout (which is the same as the BC396T, only less quick keys) better than the PSR-500, but I've found a way to cope with it. I just programmed it like I have my Pro-95, only the first 10 scanlists are for trunking and the last 10 are for conventional. One thing that I really like the idea of (I haven't been able to use it yet) is the multi site feature which I know I will use once I get back in Houston.

 

[kikito]

I just programmed it like I have my Pro-95, only the first 10 scanlists are for trunking and the last 10 are for conventional.

Hey, that's exactly how I'm using mine too!

One thing that I really like the idea of (I haven't been able to use it yet) is the multi site feature which I know I will use once I get back in Houston.

The Multi-Site feature is great. I use STAT on our P25 system, ROAM on a Mot 2 and leave it OFF on a Mot Hybrid. It tracks them flawlessly and as expected. The other great trunking feature is the LTR AutoMove. It also works great.

 

[n4jri]

I have a feeling that we'll see more scanlists in future models. I'd like to have 10 or 20 more that I could set up like custom service searches.

What I love about the PSR-500 scan lists is the fact that I can take a statewide radio system, and program it only once. Then I just assign the TG's to the scanlists that I want them in. Instead of teh radio having to reacquire the control channel with each separate bank (a la PRO96/BC396T) it only scans the trunk once and this covers all banks.

Ditto for my local area, which is a multi-locality SmartZone system. I have one TSYS for all 3 zones (set to Multisite 'stat' mode) with all TGRPs attached to this. Then I just separate the TG's into scanlists by locality. This doesn't save me an time compared to saving separate systems, but it does allow me to avoid having to program duplicate talkgroups to ID 'regional' TG's or for lockouts--and that saves memory and keeps the system more coherent.

I've been busy importing my old WIn96 files in to Win500 and you should see how many duplicate TG's and frequencies I'm deleting.

I also like the ability to have searches as separate objects. The LP/FRS/MURS service search saves me over 40 different channels that I used to have to program.

73/Allen (N4JRI)