Aurora Fire Master Plan

[k0pwo]

I think Aurora needs to rethink there medical protocols. There biggest waste of manpower and apparatus misuse is with the paramedics riding in with at least 85 percent of the medical calls. That takes the engine out of service for usually 45 or more minutes. Yes I know they call themselves 3 man bls etc. But it is a waste of manpower, especially when they must tone a 2nd engine on the very next call to cover the paramedic on the 1st due engine. To me, that is a waste considering they already seem to cover way to much area with companies as it is already.

I am not sure of any other station other than the one for Aurora that is setting unmanned.. I am guessing you are refering about station 14/quartermaster station.

 

[MikeyB]

I think the unmanned station that looked like a house that you are referring to might be the old station #13 just off Briarwood south of Aurora. It looked exactly like a house with a large garage. It closed when the new station #13 opened. That must have been 3 years ago since it has been manned.

 

[KB9LMJ]

Wow, I was trying to keep my AFD bashing down to a minimum because...well...I donno. But looks like you all took care of it for me. =) Personally, all I know is what I was told. And it's very possible that it could be wrong, you know how that works in government. Fact is, 9 new recruits will be hitting the streets in a few weeks. Yet to be seen, 3 more academies in the next 14 mos.

Old 13s was the house, Jim.

And who knows, someday when I'm Chief...well...lets not get carried away there just yet. =) I hope things will change around here as far as playing in the sandbox nicely. I know I've said it before, but we (metro depts) really need to take a look at systems that are working well elsewhere. Namely the MABAS system that just went statewide in IL a few mos ago. It's worked so well in the 13 co Chicago area since the 1960s, it was adopted statewide. I'm not so much talking about the radio aspect of it, which is a totally different soapbox. But the friendly mutual/auto aid would sure be nice out here. I just have to shake my head when I see things like AFDs 11s going in almost across the street from Cunningham's 61s, and (I hate to say it) DFD running a 2nd alarm at Aventine on Parker and Peoria with no one else but themselves, and AFD and DFD running a warehouse fire near I-70 with both depts sending greater alarms working the SAME building with people inside, using totally different radio channels and no one talking to each other. Let's hope for the best, but someday it's going to bite us hard if we don't wake up. It just seems too easy from the outside sometimes. Anyway...

Soapbox mode deactivated.

 

[jimmnn]

I think Aurora needs to rethink there medical protocols. There biggest waste of manpower and apparatus misuse is with the paramedics riding in with at least 85 percent of the medical calls. That takes the engine out of service for usually 45 or more minutes. Yes I know they call themselves 3 man bls etc. But it is a waste of manpower, especially when they must tone a 2nd engine on the very next call to cover the paramedic on the 1st due engine. To me, that is a waste considering they already seem to cover way to much area with companies as it is already.

I am not sure of any other station other than the one for Aurora that is setting unmanned.. I am guessing you are refering about station 14/quartermaster station.

Don't get me started Dave, Aurora is by far a model EMS system and for that matter why does Fire not just transport it works for North Metro, Westy, Thornton, West Metro, South Metro, Parker, Littleton (sorta) and the list goes on. Did everyone know those RM units are ALS staffed with a paramedic but they are completely treated like ambulance drivers "upon arrival RM-102 bring me the wheels".

Also remember all those academies Travis is mentioning every single one of those new recruits will be required by the department to become a paramedic. Now talk about a waste of taxpayer dollars.

Jim<

 

[n0doz]

Sorry to be a little slow - is AFD 13 the one over in the warehouses around 32d and Tower?

 

[n0doz]

Never mind - I forgot I had an AFD map on my other drive. Station 12 is on 34th Dr near Tower.

 

[ROOFLIFECO]

Don't get me started Dave, Aurora is by far a model EMS system and for that matter why does Fire not just transport it works for North Metro, Westy, Thornton, West Metro, South Metro, Parker, Littleton (sorta) and the list goes on. Did everyone know those RM units are ALS staffed with a paramedic but they are completely treated like ambulance drivers "upon arrival RM-102 bring me the wheels".

Also remember all those academies Travis is mentioning every single one of those new recruits will be required by the department to become a paramedic. Now talk about a waste of taxpayer dollars.

Jim<

I agree. I think thats total crap.

a) because there is already a paramedic and an EMT-IV on every rural metro bus that has the ability to run emergant on calls, there is really no need for another paramedic from Aurora Fire to "ride in", unless it is a core-0 or something, which I can understand. But I know that it does have something to do with the EMS system in Aurora, where as if a medic does not ride in from afd and it turns out to be a halfway serious call, then they can get in trouble

b) just like dave said, it is a waste of resources. I think it is really silly how now, within 4 years, each firefighter with Aurora must have their EMT-P. If they are really putting that plan into action, I don't see why they cannot run their own ambulances instead of taking the rural-metro contract.


I think denver runs a wonderful EMS system. BLS engines, which are a lot of the time first on scene, and ALS ambulances. I think this works out a lot better because ALS proceedures and meds are not really pushed until a few minutes into the call, in which time the ambulance with the medic will be on scene.


Aurora Fire has the definate potential to be a great department, but I think they need to get their funding straight, open all of the stations that they have plans for, and work something out with the EMS system there.

Again, just my thoughts...

 

[akugri]

The station off Gartrell on Aurora Pkwy is Station 14. (Not currently active, just storage).

Station 15 is planned for Gun Club road/Murphy Creek area and in my opinoin should probably be built and staffed before 14's as 10's are running out there now and it is a rather long response time vs 13's which isn't that far from the area 14's would cover. Of course it was Eagle Creek's money that got 14's built and it may be that money that puts a crew there even at the expense of response times to Murphy Creek.

If you look at a very recent map that shows cities, Aurora has anexed a lot of the land out to Bennett along I70 but at this time is not patrolling/providing protection for it because it is still mostly empty land. I heard there is a plan on the chief's wall that shows several stations to be built out east, probably long after we're gone. As it's built out it will be interesting to see how Sable and Bennett's territories get "invaded."

I broached the EMS model with a paramedic chief there once and the reponse was that several years ago they tried to take over transport but AMR not wanting to lose their home city pulled strings to have the council keep them in for transport even if AFD medics were providing care. I asked why that wasn't scrapped when it went up for bid an rural took over and the response was along the lines of "politics prevents us from going there."

 

[papaelk]

Welcome aboard akugri

 

[rfburns]

Never mind - I forgot I had an AFD map on my other drive. Station 12 is on 34th Dr near Tower.

Does Station 12 still have structural problems or what have they done there?

 

[KB9LMJ]

I think denver runs a wonderful EMS system. BLS engines, which are a lot of the time first on scene, and ALS ambulances. I think this works out a lot better because ALS proceedures and meds are not really pushed until a few minutes into the call, in which time the ambulance with the medic will be on scene.

Yeah and no. Chicago FD started ALS companies a few years ago and it works really well. Their EMS system is the 2nd biggest in the US and it gets overloaded alot, so having ALS on scene before the amb makes sense. There's been quite alot of times where I wish we were ALS because I've had pretty critical pts I can't do much for and DG's been a long way out. But unlike Aurora, Chicago doesn't waste there resources by sending them with the amb unless it's needed. I'd like to see that happen in DFD, but I don't think it will.

 

[rescueeagle]

okay eveyone had to chime in on this one. First of all as you know I was an Intern with Aurora Fire so I have some insight from that perspective however I also have grandparents who live there in Heritage Eagle Bend which is right behind Aurora 14's. They just attended a council meeting discussing the plans for station 14. I have read over the plans and proposials that my grandmother recieved and they are as follows. Opening by Jan 1st will be station 14. However it will only be staffed with 2 Firefighters for any given shift. In addition it will not have an engine but rather "Squad 14" It will be a BLS station that will run on every call in its coverage area as well as be a second due unit into 13's area. On any ALS calls engine 13 will back up the squad. As far as the airport goes or any ARFF units being placed there, nothing was said about that in the meeting. Also Aurora is re-building station 1 currently due to the fact that old 1's is falling apart and becoming quite in-adaquate. And lastly Aurora does plan and as far as I know already has the blue prints drawn up for a Station 15 that will begin construction by mid-next year. Not sure where though. So that it a little insight from an "insider" or at least the grandson of one Keep in mind that this information came from both the government officials that represent Aurora as well as from Aurora Fire Admin. at this public meeting! So take it as you will. In addition after reading the above the reason that Aurora's medics ride in so often (at least my understanding after talking with many of the medics) is because Fire is "medical command" now to what extent that "command" extends I'm not sure.

I don't know where you guys heard that Aurora is going to require everyone to become EMT-P but as far as I know from my internship (which ended 6 months ago, but still) they are not requireing everyone to be EMT-P but rather make their truck companies ALS meaning staff them with a medic as well. I personally believe that it would be a great idea to do that because then they wouldn't need to pull both a truck company and an ALS engine as second due out of service when the engine from that assigned response area is out of service. I do believe that they are experimenting with truck 2 as ALS and as far as I know it is working well for them so far.



Just my opinoins and 2 pennies
Have a great one!!

 

[k0pwo]

Well staffing station 14 with "BLS Squad 14" is nothing more than a bandaid to hopefully pull the wool over the eyes of the people of eagle bend and keep them content for a while. They will still roll engine 13 from arapahoe road. Thus each call to eagle bend will now take out a squad plus an entire 2nd engine company thus costing the taxpayers of Aurora more money per call, and once again jepordize the safety of the citizens. That sounds like a typical Aurora act.

As far as Aurora being "medical command" unless things have changed since I was in the fire service, in the state of Colorado each fire district is tasked with being the medical authority. Meaning the dept is responsilbe for setting up its medical plan and running the medical calls per their protocols. So Aurora does not need to send a medic in with each amubulance to the hospital. I can't think of any other dept in the state that does that.

Yesterday while listening to Aurora, within a 7 minute time frame there were 3 injury accidents toned, a sick case/medical call and then a assault call of some sort. This was within 7 minutes that all of these were toned. 15 minutes later, there were 5 engine companies that were reduced staffing due to medics riding in to the hospital. In addition, 2 of these engine companies chose to go to the medical center to retrieve their medics thus even reducing the city wide staffing down even further. So 5 of the 13 eninge companies in the city were reduce staffed or totally out of their first due area. So where is the value and safety in that plan? And even though I didn't continue to listen past that, I would be that a call rolled in up north right afterward that required a two engine response since the 1st due engine didn't have a medic on it and need a cover medic toned in.

Does anyone know what the staffing ratio is for a city such as aurora. I believe that Aurora's 13 stations are way below the national average of staffing per city square miles. I don't know that as a fact, but it has to be true. Look at a map of how Aurora has annexed over the last 4 years and tell me that they are in no way out of ratio per number of city owned square miles.

Once again, just some thoughts.

 

[jimmnn]

OK what use is a BLS squad way out there, if anything what they need to meet the NFPA response time requirements is at least one medic so 13's does not have to scream across town just to provide one person really.

Or shoot pull it out of a downtown station like 1 or 2's arguably ALS has not been proven for the very urban areas and short transport times and RM always right on top of those calls anyways. Has anyone heard the GSW pt transported via taxi or via ALS ambulance in the urban area study? Basically the bottom line is the patient does much better to be thrown in the back of a cab.

And a 2 man squad? come on how does that help for first due unit to a working house fire with possible occupants trapped?

Glad the admin is thinking so clearly for the best interests of the citizens of SE Aurora and glad I was not at that meeting.

Jim<

 

[KB9LMJ]

Has anyone heard the GSW pt transported via taxi or via ALS ambulance in the urban area study? Basically the bottom line is the patient does much better to be thrown in the back of a cab.

Jim<

Humm.... IVs and LSPOR (long skinny pedal on the right) are the miracle drugs and a taxi can do neither. What's the basis of that about? Response times? I can see that in a rural setting if a taxi was readily available and the responders had to go to the barn to pick up the amb on top of the response time. But, ALS would be nice in my case for respiratory failure and severe asthma pts that need meds now and ALS is greater than 5 mins away. I think it's nice that AFD has medics on their rigs, but you don't need EVERYONE to be a medic and you certainly don't need to jump off to handle routine calls.

As far as the medical command thing, that's just political smoke or something because an ALS provider can hand off to another ALS provider of the same or greater level with no concern for pt abandonment. It happens everywhere all the time! Lets use Parker for example, E73 arrives long before M71, but the medic on E73 starts a neb treatment on a nonlife threatening attack. E73 doesn't surrender their medic to M71 just because he was the first medic on scene. Better yet, Littleton (another story) doesn't surrender a medic off the amb or the eng when they send the pt with Action Care. I don't know who started or why it keeps continuing to be that way at AFD. It is a risk and a waste and someday will catch them with their pants down. Unfortunately at the cost of someone's life, more than likely.