Basic SWR/Power Meter Question

[Hawkman]

I am so new I don't even take my Ham Tech and General test (being optimistic) until late November. I am, however, delving into GMRS radios for family communications. I figure I have to buy an SWR meter. I don't want to buy something just to end up wishing I had bought something else. I guess it would be nice to have a power meter as well to measure transmission power. I need some recommendations. I don't want to blow money just to say I have the most expensive one, but I want it to be functional and reliable. Should I get a digital display or a classic meter with a mechanical pointer? Can or should I get separate SWR and power meters or a combo? Should I just get one on eBay and save a few bucks to put toward other equipment? I assume these all work on any frequency.

Thanks for the input

 

[mmckenna]

I am so new I don't even take my Ham Tech and General test (being optimistic) until late November. I am, however, delving into GMRS radios for family communications. I figure I have to buy an SWR meter. I don't want to buy something just to end up wishing I had bought something else. I guess it would be nice to have a power meter as well to measure transmission power.

An SWR meter will have two settings, forward power and reflected power
The Forward power is the transmit power leaving the radio
The Reflected power is usually shown as SWR, the comparison of the forward power to the reflected power.

No need to have a separate meter for both.
But, if you are going to use this to test forward power (transmitter power output), you don't want to do that into the antenna, as the reflected power will alter the reading. You would want to test your forward power into a true 50Ω dummy load that is rated for the power and frequencies you are using.

I need some recommendations. I don't want to blow money just to say I have the most expensive one, but I want it to be functional and reliable. Should I get a digital display or a classic meter with a mechanical pointer?

Analog display is more than sufficient, and it'll show intermittent issues much more clearly than a digital display will. You won't be doing lab grade work, so you don't need super high precision.

Can or should I get separate SWR and power meters or a combo? I assume these all work on any frequency.

One decent meter will do what you need.
They do NOT work on all frequencies. You need to get one that will cover the frequencies you are using. However, it's not hard, at all, to get one that will cover VHF and UHF.


If you plan on making your own antennas, or really getting into the hobby, an SWR meter is handy. Something like a NanoVNA to your kit will be a useful addition, also.

 

[Hawkman]

One decent meter will do what you need.
They do NOT work on all frequencies. You need to get one that will cover the frequencies you are using. However, it's not hard, at all, to get one that will cover VHF and UHF.

If you plan on making your own antennas, or really getting into the hobby, an SWR meter is handy. Something like a NanoVNA to your kit will be a useful addition, also.

Thanks, mmckenna, There was a lot of useful information in your reply. I went and watched the video on Amazon for the NamoVNA. The review said it made the SWR meter redundant and functioned much better. Would you agree? Even though I am brand new to all of this, it seemed that the NamoVNA measured SWR all across the frequency range without even connecting to the transceiver. It is also cheap.

Check out the video on this product and see if I might be wrong. If I am right, it seems I should buy this and forget an SWR meter unless there are functions that the NamoVNA will not perform. https://www.amazon.com/50KHz-900MHz...hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584207590044658&psc=1

 

[mmckenna]

The NanoVNA will allow you to sweep the antenna and see where it is resonate.
That is a good thing, and gives you a nice graphical display that's easy to understand. It's a great tool if you want to build your own antennas, and it's a great tool for setting up antennas that require tuning.

The learning curve on the NanoVNA, or any antenna analyzer like that, can be a bit steep for the newcomer. Not that you shouldn't have one in your kit, just make sure you give yourself some time to learn how to use it A-N-D interpret the results. The interface to use it isn't super intuitive and I found it frustrating. I have an $18K version at work, so not really a fair comparison, but I think they could have made the VNA easier to use.

There are some good tutorials on YouTube for the NanoVNA's. Problem is, there are way more bad tutorials on there, also. Seems like everyone and their brother felt the need to make a video on how to use it, and it didn't matter if they understood the device or not.
Finding a good video can be hard, so watch them and if it's not working for you, click out of it and try another until you find one that explains it in a way that makes sense.

I do not agree that it makes an SWR meter redundant. I think that is an overly generalized statement made by someone that probably doesn't have a lot of experience using both devices.

An SWR meter (or directional watt meter) will allow you to actually test things under the full RF power. The NanoVNA only uses a very low power signal that may not show some issues with antennas. That's OK for most hobby stuff, though.
The NanoVNA won't read power output of your transmitter, either, which can be a handy tool for troubleshooting.

Both have their place. An SWR meter is much easier to learn and will give you useful information.
The NanoVNA has its place and is a great tool to have, but I'd want both.

 

[K7MEM]

I agree mostly with "mmckenna". When I first started in Amateur Radio (1965), I didn't even know what a SWR bridge was. And it didn't affect my operations. It was almost 20 years before I built my first SWR bridge. Now I have a NanoVNA-H4 (don't cheap out on this), and a old MFJ-259 Antenna Analyzer. Yes, these instruments are great for working with antennas. But I still rely mostly on a SWR bridge(s). I have several Heathkit HM-102s and a few home brew SWR bridges.

If your just going to purchase an antenna for your radios, a good SWR/Power meter is really all you need. That will tell you whether you getting the most out of your transceiver and antenna. Make sure you pay careful attention on the frequency and power capabilities of anything you purchase. You don't need a SWR/Power meter that's capable of measuring 1 KW, if your only running low power radios. A NanoVNA is great but, unless you get into antenna design, building, and modification, once you scan your antenna, it isn't of much use. It will sit on the shelf or in a desk drawer. Luckily, NanoVNAs are cheap enough.

 

[nd5y]

Can a Nano VNA be calibrated to ignore/remove/subtract the transmission line?

 

[N4KVE]

Buy a Bird wattmeter. It’ll be the only one you’ll ever need, & your grandkids will use it if they get their ticket. Or they can put it in your coffin. Many reasonably priced ones on the used market.

 

[WA0CBW]

You can calibrate the vna to eliminate the coax by performing the calibration (open, short, load) at the far end of the coax.
BB

 

[popnokick]

There is computer software for the NanoVNA that makes it much easier to use, understand, and save results. Plugs the little device into your USB port. NanoVNA Saver and NanoVNA app.

 

[Hawkman]

I am borderline OCD when many options are put in front of me. Based on the great input from all of you, I went online shopping. I quickly learned that I would spend hundreds if I wanted a meter that covered HF and UHF. This one seems to cover everything from 1.6 - 525 MHz and all watts up to 200. HF to GMRS, BUT it ain't cheap- $226. https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Back...mzn1.fos.18630bbb-fcbb-42f8-9767-857e17e03685

I think I can buy an SWR meter for HF and a second meter for GMRS that covers the same range for about $70 each. I would be $100 ahead.OR, I could buy the small NanoVNA for $60. It covers the MF, HF, VHF, and UHF but only under the energy load that the unit supplies. It does not connect to the transceiver as I understand it, and it has a learning curve. It looks like the small NanoVNA does everything the larger Nano does.

Or I could buy the nanoVNA and one UHF SWR meter. I wonder if I will ever buy an HF rig, but in a way, that seems to be the fun of Ham radio.

If you are not ready to strangle me, take your time responding, but your input on what you would buy if you were a 73-year-old guy starting out. (middle class, not in debt, but hate to waste money) Your input helps me with my never-ending weighing of the options.

Thanks

 

[mmckenna]

I think I can buy an SWR meter for HF and a second meter for GMRS that covers the same range for about $70 each. I would be $100 ahead.

Nothing wrong with that. For hobby use, you don't need super precision, and a basic SWR meter will do what you want.
A long time ago when I was first getting started, I had the cheapest of cheap MFJ SWR meters. One for HF/CB and one that did VHF/UHF. Back then, I think I paid $35 each.

OR, I could buy the small NanoVNA for $60. It covers the MF, HF, VHF, and UHF but only under the energy load that the unit supplies. It does not connect to the transceiver as I understand it, and it has a learning curve. It looks like the small NanoVNA does everything the larger Nano does.

Yeah, if I had to choose only one tool, the NanoVNA would be it. Unless you suspect something is wrong with your radio, there is really no reason to monitor power output. Could be fine for now, and add a watt meter down the road.

Or I could buy the nanoVNA and one UHF SWR meter. I wonder if I will ever buy an HF rig, but in a way, that seems to be the fun of Ham radio.

I played on HF for a while, but moved away from it. Sold off my HF gear and will consider replacing it when I retire. VHF does what I need 99% of the time for personal/ham stuff.

It's a big hobby, and when you are new, it takes a while to find your happy place. Don't be in a rush to get on every band right away. Really, find a starting point and try it out. See how you do, see if there are actually people you want to talk to, and if it makes you happy. I quickly tired of HF and realized it wasn't what I wanted to do at that time.

I see a lot of new hams that show up with a huge bank roll and a freshly printed license who blow a lot of money on radio gear in the first few weeks, then regret it down the road. Taking is slow is OK...

If you are not ready to strangle me, take your time responding, but your input on what you would buy if you were a 73-year-old guy starting out. (middle class, not in debt, but hate to waste money) Your input helps me with my never-ending weighing of the options.

Thanks

Yeah, start slow. Figure out where you want to start and focus on that. You've got time to grow.

 

[paulears]

Buy a dirt cheap Chinese digital one for now and see what it tells you and if you can interpret the results. I’ve gone back to a real old fashioned one with moving needle because understanding change is important. If you slap one onto an antenna, you can see the changes to output and VSWR when you move near it. You can see things change when you touch rubbishy feeder cable and you see things that ring bells in your memory. A digital readout give you snapshots, not trends. I still use the digital one. If I stick an antenna on a boat for a customer, I’ll stick it on the back of the radio and it tells me 22.6W and 1.5. Neither is accurate, but typical for the meter, on that frequency. With a ground plane-less antenna. If the digital meter said 2.2 and 15W then something is wrong. My real meter which is NOT as accurate as a Bird, might say 23W and 1.4 as VSWR but importantly it would stay solidly in one position.

they also have another major advantage. There are no batteries to go flat.

 

[G7RUX]

Can a Nano VNA be calibrated to ignore/remove/subtract the transmission line?

Yes, you can.