Baylor DMR

[Ensnared]

I have been working with another listener to determine why the recently submission specific to Baylor's DMR. I have loaded three different favorites, each with different parameters. I am not getting any hits whatsoever. I don't know how to run SDR. Baylor University Trunking System, Waco, Texas - Scanner Frequencies

Any suggestions?

 

[Ensnared]

Correction: "determine why the recently submitted Baylor DMR does not work."

 

[mwjones]

First of all, it would help to know what kind of radio or software you're trying to use to monitor the system, and if Uniden, have you paid for the DMR upgrade?

Looking at that system, it might be the reported LCN's are wrong (1, 3 and 5 - but it may be the data came from DSDPlus, that uses LSN's instead, which would translate to LCN's 1, 2, 3). I've seen this on a few systems around DFW, and submit fixes for them as I find them.

 

[hiegtx]

First of all, it would help to know what kind of radio or software you're trying to use to monitor the system, and if Uniden, have you paid for the DMR upgrade?

Looking at that system, it might be the reported LCN's are wrong (1, 3 and 5 - but it may be the data came from DSDPlus, that uses LSN's instead, which would translate to LCN's 1, 2, 3). I've seen this on a few systems around DFW, and submit fixes for them as I find them.

He's using a 436HP, with the DMR upgrade.

I also looked at that system, & have my doubts about accuracy. There are a total of seven frequencies on the license (with station code FB2). It's licensed as IG, not for trunking, but I've seen a number of other systems licensed for IG, but are being used in a trunked system, here in the DFW area.

 

[Ensnared]

First of all, it would help to know what kind of radio or software you're trying to use to monitor the system, and if Uniden, have you paid for the DMR upgrade?

Looking at that system, it might be the reported LCN's are wrong (1, 3 and 5 - but it may be the data came from DSDPlus, that uses LSN's instead, which would translate to LCN's 1, 2, 3). I've seen this on a few systems around DFW, and submit fixes for them as I find them.

I suppose it would help if I included the name of my radio, LOL. I am using a 436HP. I believe I programmed this system in the morning. Today, I was more cautious. You see, I put one of the system frequencies twice. That dog don't hunt. I

Today, I loaded the "correct" information from the current submission. I will also load the same with the corrected LCN, 1,2, 3.

 

[Ensnared]

No hits whatsoever. Back to the drawing board. When and if this is opens to monitoring, it will be rather exciting. For unknown reasons, Baylor PD used to use AES-grade encryption. I hope Baylor PD has changed their M.O. I have never ever heard the Baylor PD HOTRRS talk group active.

 

[mwjones]

No hits whatsoever. Back to the drawing board. When and if this is opens to monitoring, it will be rather exciting. For unknown reasons, Baylor PD used to use AES-grade encryption. I hope Baylor PD has changed their M.O. I have never ever heard the Baylor PD HOTRRS talk group active.

As @hiegtx mentioned, there's a total of 7 frequencies listed at the Sciences Building (101 Bagby Avenue), and another 2 at Robinson Tower (700 S University Parks Drive), so if this is a DMR Trunked system, there's a possibility that the Capacity Plus "Rest" channel has shifted to one of the frequencies not in RRDB, and thus you would not hear any activity - at least until a point the "Rest" channel returns to one of the 3 frequencies.

At the same time, the license is for "non-trunked" use, and the emissions designator of 7K60FXE typically represents DMR Voice. What is missing is the trunked designation, as well as the emissions designator of 7K60FXD, which is used to indicate "Data" (aka the control information). The "non-trunked" designation is fairly common on Capacity Plus, so I discount that, but the lack of 7K60FXD almost seems like these 9 frequencies may not be trunked, and may just be plain DMR Voice.

There may also be a frequency not on the license (one of the old "paging" frequencies that are under regional licenses not associated with Baylor) - I had a hospital here in DFW that was using one of those, and it took some detective work to find it, since the Capacity Plus system was not heavily active.

What I would suggest is loading all 9 frequencies in as "Conventional", and scan them like you would an analog system. Since the "Rest" channel only beacons every so often, it is easy to skip over in normal searches, but eventually you will get a lock on it if its out there (the scanner will stop, even though there's no audio, and you'll see the beacon coming in. That will confirm the existence of the Capacity Plus system, and then its programming all 9 into the scanner as a trunked system and using the LCN finder to try and fill in the missing pieces.

 

[Ensnared]

As @hiegtx mentioned, there's a total of 7 frequencies listed at the Sciences Building (101 Bagby Avenue), and another 2 at Robinson Tower (700 S University Parks Drive), so if this is a DMR Trunked system, there's a possibility that the Capacity Plus "Rest" channel has shifted to one of the frequencies not in RRDB, and thus you would not hear any activity - at least until a point the "Rest" channel returns to one of the 3 frequencies.

At the same time, the license is for "non-trunked" use, and the emissions designator of 7K60FXE typically represents DMR Voice. What is missing is the trunked designation, as well as the emissions designator of 7K60FXD, which is used to indicate "Data" (aka the control information). The "non-trunked" designation is fairly common on Capacity Plus, so I discount that, but the lack of 7K60FXD almost seems like these 9 frequencies may not be trunked, and may just be plain DMR Voice.

There may also be a frequency not on the license (one of the old "paging" frequencies that are under regional licenses not associated with Baylor) - I had a hospital here in DFW that was using one of those, and it took some detective work to find it, since the Capacity Plus system was not heavily active.

What I would suggest is loading all 9 frequencies in as "Conventional", and scan them like you would an analog system. Since the "Rest" channel only beacons every so often, it is easy to skip over in normal searches, but eventually you will get a lock on it if its out there (the scanner will stop, even though there's no audio, and you'll see the beacon coming in. That will confirm the existence of the Capacity Plus system, and then its programming all 9 into the scanner as a trunked system and using the LCN finder to try and fill in the missing pieces.

Thank you for the suggestions; however, you are dealing with a novice when it comes to DMR. For example, I attempted to analyze Belton ISD, but I gave up. Yes, I saw the various colors associated with that system. I used the analog conventional method you mentioned.

I know that Baylor PD used to be UHF, but they were also encrypted.

The architecture of DMR blows my feeble mind. However, I will pinch my nose and jump into the pool of uncertainty to see if I can dog paddle and find the shore. What a weird metaphor, LOL. I am still working with the aforementioned listener. He, above all, has helped me across many encountered problems.

Thanks for your help as well.

 

[mwjones]

Thank you for the suggestions; however, you are dealing with a novice when it comes to DMR. For example, I attempted to analyze Belton ISD, but I gave up. Yes, I saw the various colors associated with that system. I used the analog conventional method you mentioned.

I know that Baylor PD used to be UHF, but they were also encrypted.

The architecture of DMR blows my feeble mind. However, I will pinch my nose and jump into the pool of uncertainty to see if I can dog paddle and find the shore. What a weird metaphor, LOL. I am still working with the aforementioned listener. He, above all, has helped me across many encountered problems.

Thanks for your help as well.

Hold on for a lengthy (and I hope not too deeply technical, since I am an engineer at my day job so when analyzing things I tend to think this way) discussion.

I was a novice at this 16 months ago, so I understand the frustration, but have learned a lot in that time through the pandemic and such. Helping to understand the sequence of events, helps to build a better understanding of how we monitor it.

With the exception of Motorola Capacity Plus and Hytera XPT systems, other flavors of DMR are more in line with legacy EDACS systems, in that they have a control channel, and use Logical Slot Numbers (LSN's).

Capacity Plus and XPT systems are more along the lines of a legacy LTR system, in that there is no control channel, but (at least in the Capacity Plus systems) use a "Rest" channel to announce where the system is (I'll explain further in a moment).

All DMR systems are designed to be frequency efficient, which takes a standard frequency and divides it into two time slots. Each time slot can carry voice and/or data, allowing two conversations to happen on one frequency. This is much the same as a Project 25 Phase 2 system, although in most Phase 2 systems, the control channel and data occupy the entire frequency (there's a few that are starting to show up with a single time slot control channel, but they are still very rare). Likewise, you'll see reference to "Color Code". That is just a digital flavor of squelch, much like the analog CTCSS/DCS, so the radio doesn't mis-affiliate with the wrong system.

So lets dive into Capacity Plus a bit deeper. In a Capacity Plus system, the subscriber radios will all be programmed with all valid frequencies, and the LSN's for those frequencies (LSN's represent the frequency and two time slots for that frequency, so using the Baylor system data as submitted, LSN 1 is time slot 1 of 452.2375 and LSN 2 is time slot 2 of 452.2375). When the radio is first turned on, the radio will search all LSN's for a "beacon" on the Rest Channel, where it will basically monitor for activity. Unlike other trunked radio systems, there's no Registration/Deregistration with a central controller to affiliate with.

If the Rest Channel is on LSN 1, and a user keys up on their radio, say for instance on talkgroup 1, then the repeater will send an announcement to all radios, "everybody but those monitoring talkgroup 1 move to LSN 2, and will move the Rest Channel and associated beacon to the new LSN. The conversation on talkgroup 1 will continue on LSN 1. When the group monitoring talkgroup 1 finishes, they will all move to LSN 2 to monitor for the next key up. This will continue until all LSN's on all frequencies are busy with traffic, at which the radio will get a busy indication. Depending on the configuration, some systems will stick to the lowest LSNs first while others will round-robin through all of the LSN's balancing the usage across all repeaters (the former is much more difficult from a monitoring perspective to analyze).

From a monitoring perspective, we've got our work cut out for us. Unlike Motorola and Project 25 systems, these systems typically don't broadcast their frequencies "Over the Air", only the LSN's for the radio to go to is broadcast, so we have to do some detective work. Fortunately, Uniden has some features that help make that work easier on the newer scanners, but there's still work to do.

First, Uniden logs the frequencies by LCN's, but RRDB shows us both the LCN and LSN (if you click on the site in question, but also on the main system page it will show the LCN as well), so if we're monitoring a system someone else has submitted, then we're on our way.

Second, if we know the frequencies, you can use the "LCN Finder" to try and piece together the LCN assignments. This works great on systems the use round-robin, and is moderately active, but not so good on systems with lighter traffic and sticking to "lowest available LSN", since you may never get to traffic on some of the frequencies.

You mentioned that previously they used encryption, and that may still be the case on this system. The difference is now with digital encryption, the repeater will set a flag that says "encrypted" at the start of the transmission, and the Uniden scanner will see that and just move on with rarely a peep. You might catch activity for a second, and the scanner will show "ENC" on the display, but you won't get anything otherwise.

The loading of the frequencies as conventional will at least allow you to find the Rest Channel Beacon, and the color code for that frequency (each frequency can either have the same or different color codes in the trunked system). Once you've got that, you've taken the first step to start decoding it (has anybody other than the original submitter confirmed there's even a trunked system there?).

If I was closer (I'm like 2 hours and change away), I would set up a computer based application DSDPlus that would allow us to visualize the system as its being used, seeing all the LSN's and activity. There might be others with a similar setup that's closer that could help look at this in further detail. DSDPlus also has a spectrum analyzer that can visually help find the beacon if its not on the list of licensed frequencies (which saved my behind on a hospital here in Collin County that was using one of those non-licensed "paging" frequencies).

I hope this helps, and please do keep asking questions (I hope this didn't confuse you worse) - I am more than glad to help where I can.

 

[Ensnared]

Hold on for a lengthy (and I hope not too deeply technical, since I am an engineer at my day job so when analyzing things I tend to think this way) discussion.

I was a novice at this 16 months ago, so I understand the frustration, but have learned a lot in that time through the pandemic and such. Helping to understand the sequence of events, helps to build a better understanding of how we monitor it.

With the exception of Motorola Capacity Plus and Hytera XPT systems, other flavors of DMR are more in line with legacy EDACS systems, in that they have a control channel, and use Logical Slot Numbers (LSN's).

Capacity Plus and XPT systems are more along the lines of a legacy LTR system, in that there is no control channel, but (at least in the Capacity Plus systems) use a "Rest" channel to announce where the system is (I'll explain further in a moment).

All DMR systems are designed to be frequency efficient, which takes a standard frequency and divides it into two time slots. Each time slot can carry voice and/or data, allowing two conversations to happen on one frequency. This is much the same as a Project 25 Phase 2 system, although in most Phase 2 systems, the control channel and data occupy the entire frequency (there's a few that are starting to show up with a single time slot control channel, but they are still very rare). Likewise, you'll see reference to "Color Code". That is just a digital flavor of squelch, much like the analog CTCSS/DCS, so the radio doesn't mis-affiliate with the wrong system.

So lets dive into Capacity Plus a bit deeper. In a Capacity Plus system, the subscriber radios will all be programmed with all valid frequencies, and the LSN's for those frequencies (LSN's represent the frequency and two time slots for that frequency, so using the Baylor system data as submitted, LSN 1 is time slot 1 of 452.2375 and LSN 2 is time slot 2 of 452.2375). When the radio is first turned on, the radio will search all LSN's for a "beacon" on the Rest Channel, where it will basically monitor for activity. Unlike other trunked radio systems, there's no Registration/Deregistration with a central controller to affiliate with.

If the Rest Channel is on LSN 1, and a user keys up on their radio, say for instance on talkgroup 1, then the repeater will send an announcement to all radios, "everybody but those monitoring talkgroup 1 move to LSN 2, and will move the Rest Channel and associated beacon to the new LSN. The conversation on talkgroup 1 will continue on LSN 1. When the group monitoring talkgroup 1 finishes, they will all move to LSN 2 to monitor for the next key up. This will continue until all LSN's on all frequencies are busy with traffic, at which the radio will get a busy indication. Depending on the configuration, some systems will stick to the lowest LSNs first while others will round-robin through all of the LSN's balancing the usage across all repeaters (the former is much more difficult from a monitoring perspective to analyze).

From a monitoring perspective, we've got our work cut out for us. Unlike Motorola and Project 25 systems, these systems typically don't broadcast their frequencies "Over the Air", only the LSN's for the radio to go to is broadcast, so we have to do some detective work. Fortunately, Uniden has some features that help make that work easier on the newer scanners, but there's still work to do.

First, Uniden logs the frequencies by LCN's, but RRDB shows us both the LCN and LSN (if you click on the site in question, but also on the main system page it will show the LCN as well), so if we're monitoring a system someone else has submitted, then we're on our way.

Second, if we know the frequencies, you can use the "LCN Finder" to try and piece together the LCN assignments. This works great on systems the use round-robin, and is moderately active, but not so good on systems with lighter traffic and sticking to "lowest available LSN", since you may never get to traffic on some of the frequencies.

You mentioned that previously they used encryption, and that may still be the case on this system. The difference is now with digital encryption, the repeater will set a flag that says "encrypted" at the start of the transmission, and the Uniden scanner will see that and just move on with rarely a peep. You might catch activity for a second, and the scanner will show "ENC" on the display, but you won't get anything otherwise.

The loading of the frequencies as conventional will at least allow you to find the Rest Channel Beacon, and the color code for that frequency (each frequency can either have the same or different color codes in the trunked system). Once you've got that, you've taken the first step to start decoding it (has anybody other than the original submitter confirmed there's even a trunked system there?).

If I was closer (I'm like 2 hours and change away), I would set up a computer based application DSDPlus that would allow us to visualize the system as its being used, seeing all the LSN's and activity. There might be others with a similar setup that's closer that could help look at this in further detail. DSDPlus also has a spectrum analyzer that can visually help find the beacon if its not on the list of licensed frequencies (which saved my behind on a hospital here in Collin County that was using one of those non-licensed "paging" frequencies).

I hope this helps, and please do keep asking questions (I hope this didn't confuse you worse) - I am more than glad to help where I can.

There is only one response I can muster this early in the morning. That is, what a comprehensive explanation. I will mark this response as a reference guide for future and present DMR endeavors.

This is a very active campus composed of "high maintenance" students, LOL. I am quite certain Baylor PD is very busy. Furthermore, the areas surrounding Baylor are high crime areas. Many of the houses have bars on the windows. All sorts of crimes have been committed in the area. I've heard Waco PD assisting on occasion. I am hoping we can find the portal to this gold mine of interesting transmissions.

Thank you for your detailed response. I will get on this tomorrow when I am off. Thank you so very much for the effort put into your response.

"Onward Through the Fog" -Oat Willie

 

[sonm10]

Is this a school system? It could be conventional networked - connected using ip. I have several schools here in Minnesota that are this way. It is not true trunking, but pseudo-trunking with several repeaters that are ip linked together. You can usually tell if it shows DMR and is constantly keying up (usually idle data) and the same talkgroups show upon different repeaters. Of course, if it shows Cap+, Con+, TIII, it is trunking. Using DSD+ with a dongle is usually easier to tell.

Here is an example system St. Cloud Area School District 742 Trunking System, St. Cloud, Minnesota - Scanner Frequencies

EDIT

I see someone posted a link to a Cap+ system. Is it possible original submitter was confused between a Cap+ system and a conventional networked system?

 

[mwjones]

Is this a school system? It could be conventional networked - connected using ip. I have several schools here in Minnesota that are this way. It is not true trunking, but pseudo-trunking with several repeaters that are ip linked together. You can usually tell if it shows DMR and is constantly keying up (usually idle data) and the same talkgroups show upon different repeaters. Of course, if it shows Cap+, Con+, TIII, it is trunking. Using DSD+ with a dongle is usually easier to tell.

Here is an example system St. Cloud Area School District 742 Trunking System, St. Cloud, Minnesota - Scanner Frequencies

EDIT

I see someone posted a link to a Cap+ system. Is it possible original submitter was confused between a Cap+ system and a conventional networked system?

Baylor University is a private research university in Waco, Texas, and has been around for 176 years, with over 20,000 students.

The status of if it is actually a Capacity Plus or Conventional Networked is the topic of discussion. The license associated with the system has been around since 2010, and the DMR Voice Emissions Designator dates back to 2014 on the license. There's no depreciated system in RRDB indicating a past use for an LTR or other trunked system, and with the license being for conventional use, those of us around the state trying to help others piece together accurate information.

 

[Ensnared]

First of all, it would help to know what kind of radio or software you're trying to use to monitor the system, and if Uniden, have you paid for the DMR upgrade?

Looking at that system, it might be the reported LCN's are wrong (1, 3 and 5 - but it may be the data came from DSDPlus, that uses LSN's instead, which would translate to LCN's 1, 2, 3). I've seen this on a few systems around DFW, and submit fixes for them as I find them.

Yes, I have the DMR upgrade. For starters, I loaded the following frequencies as conventional coupled with a color code search, 436HP. I have not a peep or any activity whatsoever. I am going to need some heavy-duty help from those with the skill set to analyze this system.

452.237500

452.362500

452.437500

453.012500

460.900000

461.100000

461.700000

 

[Ensnared]

After "attempting" to activate twin dongles for SDR, I am gifting such to a friend of mine with this setup. I give up. This man, who uses Linux and build his computers from scratch will likely enjoy monitoring Travis County on GATRRS.

So, I am redefining my role in this RR analysis of Baylor DMR. I check whether the system download is accurate and/or finding new talk groups.

Thank for all assistance. I will also "attempt" to use the Discovery and Analyze functions of my 435HP.

I am going to "Put that fire in the air."

 

[mwjones]

I had a few days vacation I needed to take, so I took a road trip today down to Waco (hey, who needs a good excuse to pick up kolaches in West along the way), and I spent a couple of hours monitoring the Baylor system, and I have some good news/bad news on the system front.

The good news, the information already in the RRDB is correct, frequencies, LCN's and system type.

The bad news, it appears that the repeaters are misconfigured, as I saw three frequencies all putting out the "beacon", but two would stop when the true "rest" channel would go active. At the same time, one was announcing like it was a multi-site, with an empty neighbor list, and one of the repeaters was not logged with any activity (452.4375, Color Code 2 was one of the frequencies with a "beacon", but is not seen activity yet, nor is it in RRDB, but if the Color Code is a hint, it might be LCN 2. The multiple beacons can play havoc on a scanner, but didn't slow down my SDR radios, which was able to follow the traffic.

As far as Robinson Tower is concerned, one of the two frequencies was actually at both sites, and I didn't pick up any signal from Robinson tower, only the Sciences Building. Nor did I pick up anything on the second frequency, so it might have seen use previously, but coverage of the Capacity Plus system eliminated the need for the redundant site (My listening post was a parking lot across the street from Robinson Tower, so I could tell by signal strength if it was from the Sciences Building or Robinson Tower)

There were 7 talkgroups active in my time monitoring. I will have to go back and listen to the recordings, but first impressions were that Talkgroup 87 is something related to Food Services, talking about receiving shipments and moving food products to McLane stadium for events, etc (when they were talking about not getting pretzels, but should have enough on hand for the weekend, it made me hungry even though I had just eaten a couple of the aforementioned kolaches). Talkgroup 170 may be an Audio/Video Services group, talking about setting equipment up in front of a video wall and activities in an auditorium. The remainder were pretty scarce on traffic, so I doubt I'd be able to determine their use from the recordings.

But, there was no encryption detected on any of the talkgroups, so it should be open monitoring, if you can get past the multiple beacons. Like most college systems, my suggestion would be to monitor it if you're in range during a home football game, as it is likely to be very busy with game day activities. Those types of days would also generate enough traffic to possibly give the LCN finder a chance to sort out more of the frequencies.

 

[Ensnared]

I had a few days vacation I needed to take, so I took a road trip today down to Waco (hey, who needs a good excuse to pick up kolaches in West along the way), and I spent a couple of hours monitoring the Baylor system, and I have some good news/bad news on the system front.

The good news, the information already in the RRDB is correct, frequencies, LCN's and system type.

The bad news, it appears that the repeaters are misconfigured, as I saw three frequencies all putting out the "beacon", but two would stop when the true "rest" channel would go active. At the same time, one was announcing like it was a multi-site, with an empty neighbor list, and one of the repeaters was not logged with any activity (452.4375, Color Code 2 was one of the frequencies with a "beacon", but is not seen activity yet, nor is it in RRDB, but if the Color Code is a hint, it might be LCN 2. The multiple beacons can play havoc on a scanner, but didn't slow down my SDR radios, which was able to follow the traffic.

As far as Robinson Tower is concerned, one of the two frequencies was actually at both sites, and I didn't pick up any signal from Robinson tower, only the Sciences Building. Nor did I pick up anything on the second frequency, so it might have seen use previously, but coverage of the Capacity Plus system eliminated the need for the redundant site (My listening post was a parking lot across the street from Robinson Tower, so I could tell by signal strength if it was from the Sciences Building or Robinson Tower)

There were 7 talkgroups active in my time monitoring. I will have to go back and listen to the recordings, but first impressions were that Talkgroup 87 is something related to Food Services, talking about receiving shipments and moving food products to McLane stadium for events, etc (when they were talking about not getting pretzels, but should have enough on hand for the weekend, it made me hungry even though I had just eaten a couple of the aforementioned kolaches). Talkgroup 170 may be an Audio/Video Services group, talking about setting equipment up in front of a video wall and activities in an auditorium. The remainder were pretty scarce on traffic, so I doubt I'd be able to determine their use from the recordings.

But, there was no encryption detected on any of the talkgroups, so it should be open monitoring, if you can get past the multiple beacons. Like most college systems, my suggestion would be to monitor it if you're in range during a home football game, as it is likely to be very busy with game day activities. Those types of days would also generate enough traffic to possibly give the LCN finder a chance to sort out more of the frequencies.

Thank you very much for making this effort.

So, those with a scanner might be able to monitor 'if" the 452.4375, Color Code 2 is put in as LCN 2? Do you think the misconfigured repeaters were purposefully installed that way to avoid folks listening with digital scanners? Did you hear Baylor PD?

When and if the mysteries of this radio system are hopefully brought to life, and available to download, I can monitor the talk groups all day long. By what you are saying, I am starting to wonder if RDR is the only route to hear them. Would a SDS 100 or SDS 200 pick this system up better due to decoding capabilities?

After you finish analyzing the information you obtained, will you be submitting any changes or put the talk groups you've discovered in the RR DB? I am still attempting to digest the complexity of your post, LOL. I would like to download this system since there is a high probability that I screwed things up by constructing it myself.

However, I don't recall seeing any color codes on the Baylor DMR in the RR DB.

My next project will be determining whether the recently submitted information for Woodway P25 VHF is accurate, new thread.

 

[mwjones]

Thank you very much for making this effort.

So, those with a scanner might be able to monitor 'if" the 452.4375, Color Code 2 is put in as LCN 2? Do you think the misconfigured repeaters were purposefully installed that way to avoid folks listening with digital scanners? Did you hear Baylor PD?

While I did have my SDS100 with me, it was more for listening in a conventional mode and did not have the trunking information programmed for monitoring. I'm just saying based on my analysis that 452.4375 *might* be a part of the trunked system, but since all it was transmitting was a beacon, and I never logged any voice traffic against it, I cannot confirm.

I am not familiar enough with Motorola's Capacity Plus implementation to say if the multiple repeaters transmitting beacons is intentional or not, I'm just saying in the dozens of implementations that I have observed previously, I've not seen anything like it before (and this includes systems like American Airlines at DFW Airport that encrypts all of their voice traffic and generally makes outsider monitoring impossible).

I did not hear Baylor PD, but I did hear one channel call out as "Security" (Talkgroup 188) based on my re-listening to the audio from my monitoring session, but again, my monitoring only spanned a couple of hours.

When and if the mysteries of this radio system are hopefully brought to life, and available to download, I can monitor the talk groups all day long. By what you are saying, I am starting to wonder if RDR is the only route to hear them. Would a SDS 100 or SDS 200 pick this system up better due to decoding capabilities?

Again, if you are in "ID Search" on your 436HP, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to monitor it, not outstanding the multiple beacon issue. I was able to watch traffic move between the 3 confirmed frequencies in the 2 hours I was there, so there is enough in RRDB for it to be programmed, but the lack of talkgroups keeps it from being in the Sentinel download, thus requiring it to be added to a favorites list manually. The only place the SDS100/200 excels over the 436/536 is with simulcast systems, which this is not.

After you finish analyzing the information you obtained, will you be submitting any changes or put the talk groups you've discovered in the RR DB? I am still attempting to digest the complexity of your post, LOL. I would like to download this system since there is a high probability that I screwed things up by constructing it myself.

As of this AM, I have finished going through the recordings again (under ideal conditions, in my quiet home office with headphones). At this time, due to my lack of familiarity with the campus and the like, I cannot submit anything additional for this system to RRDB, due to my lack of confidence on anything I heard or discovered.

Here is a link to the archive containing all the recordings made during my listening session (It's too big to attach to this thread). You are more than welcome to give them a listen yourself to see if you recognize something I missed.

https://cloud.otsc.info:9001/d/s/lt1PQYivAw0iLwsniMb0ad5UmwGZiuYY/4zgKuo14UWt7N_T7DTLNTkQNAhMtj3F7-j7WAwXIV_wg

I have built a Favorites list with the information correctly populated, while my setup is for SDS100/200, since the version of Sentinel is the same, you should be able to unzip, and import this favorites list in for downloading to your scanner - that file is linked to this thread below.

However, I don't recall seeing any color codes on the Baylor DMR in the RR DB.

Color codes are found by clicking on the Site name on the system page,

and you will see them in the frequency table.

My next project will be determining whether the recently submitted information for Woodway P25 VHF is accurate, new thread.

Good luck. While I did pick up HOTRRS, the Veterans Affairs system and Lacy-Lakeview from my monitoring site at I-35 and University Parks Drive, that one didn't come in (likely because its control channel is outside my normal search frequencies), so I can't be much help on that one.

 

[Ensnared]

Thanks to the person(s) who analyzed the Baylor University DMR system. I will download this & see if can find Baylor PD is in the clear and hopefully their talk group.

 

[Ensnared]

I looked at the submitted information concerning this radio system. After seeing who submitted this information, I am very confident that this information is spot-on. I am going to attempt to create a Favorite for this with ID search to see if I can discover unidentified talk groups. I appreciate the comprehensive help within this thread. It took me a while to read and decipher the information regarding the HPE file. I am going to "attempt" to extract and import the HPE.

 

[Ensnared]

While I did have my SDS100 with me, it was more for listening in a conventional mode and did not have the trunking information programmed for monitoring. I'm just saying based on my analysis that 452.4375 *might* be a part of the trunked system, but since all it was transmitting was a beacon, and I never logged any voice traffic against it, I cannot confirm.

I am not familiar enough with Motorola's Capacity Plus implementation to say if the multiple repeaters transmitting beacons is intentional or not, I'm just saying in the dozens of implementations that I have observed previously, I've not seen anything like it before (and this includes systems like American Airlines at DFW Airport that encrypts all of their voice traffic and generally makes outsider monitoring impossible).

I did not hear Baylor PD, but I did hear one channel call out as "Security" (Talkgroup 188) based on my re-listening to the audio from my monitoring session, but again, my monitoring only spanned a couple of hours.

Again, if you are in "ID Search" on your 436HP, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to monitor it, not outstanding the multiple beacon issue. I was able to watch traffic move between the 3 confirmed frequencies in the 2 hours I was there, so there is enough in RRDB for it to be programmed, but the lack of talkgroups keeps it from being in the Sentinel download, thus requiring it to be added to a favorites list manually. The only place the SDS100/200 excels over the 436/536 is with simulcast systems, which this is not.

As of this AM, I have finished going through the recordings again (under ideal conditions, in my quiet home office with headphones). At this time, due to my lack of familiarity with the campus and the like, I cannot submit anything additional for this system to RRDB, due to my lack of confidence on anything I heard or discovered.

Here is a link to the archive containing all the recordings made during my listening session (It's too big to attach to this thread). You are more than welcome to give them a listen yourself to see if you recognize something I missed.

https://cloud.otsc.info:9001/d/s/lt1PQYivAw0iLwsniMb0ad5UmwGZiuYY/4zgKuo14UWt7N_T7DTLNTkQNAhMtj3F7-j7WAwXIV_wg

I have built a Favorites list with the information correctly populated, while my setup is for SDS100/200, since the version of Sentinel is the same, you should be able to unzip, and import this favorites list in for downloading to your scanner - that file is linked to this thread below.

Color codes are found by clicking on the Site name on the system page,
View attachment 110856
and you will see them in the frequency table.

View attachment 110857


Good luck. While I did pick up HOTRRS, the Veterans Affairs system and Lacy-Lakeview from my monitoring site at I-35 and University Parks Drive, that one didn't come in (likely because its control channel is outside my normal search frequencies), so I can't be much help on that one.

Thank you!