BC296D VHF Trunking

[RStolting]

Got a VGC BC 296D, with the BCi-96d P25 card in it, have done the upgrade on the card. Made a programming cable for it, use the Bearcat programming software which works flawlessly on Windows 10 by the way, but there are questions I can't answer about trying to get the VHF P25 phase one trunking to work. I'm rather new at this.. I've only been doing radio communications for 45 years haha, but it just will not do control Channel Trucking, because the program only allows for three different types by the last digits of the frequency and the frequencies in MOSWIN don't fall into that category on VHF.
I have loaded in all five channels for the one site that I'm listening to, on the control Channel I can see the data and Link on the display, I can manually go to channels1,2,3 and 5 and hear the P25 audio crystal clear but just something about the parameters for decoding P25 that aren't in the programming software to get the job done!
So who has programmed up a P25 system on VHF, and got it to work.. give me a shout please.

 

[Randyk4661]

I had this scanner many years ago.
The user guide says it does VHF trunking, I never programmed VHF so I can't help there.
And if I Remember, it does only type 1 and type 2 trunking, not phase 1 and definitely not phase 2

If you don't have it, here is a link the the user guide

https://www.uniden.info/download/ompdf/BC296Dom.pdf

You can always set it the VHF channels as conventional in digital mode, you won't be able to trunk track but you should be able to hear activity.
That scanner is more than 20 years old, maybe 25 years.

To clear the audio try changing the P25 threshhold settings. That use to help me on my monitoring.

Good luck

 

[tvengr]

The scanner does require a band plan for P25 VHF and UHF trunking. Which system are you trying to monitor? I assume you are in Missouri. What is your city and county and which sites are you using?

 

[KevinC]

Since it requires a bandplan I have to wonder if the 296 will work on a system with multi-block TBSK's (which I'm sure all VHF systems use now).

 

[smithken]

I had this scanner many years ago.
The user guide says it does VHF trunking, I never programmed VHF so I can't help there.
And if I Remember, it does only type 1 and type 2 trunking, not phase 1 and definitely not phase 2

If you don't have it, here is a link the the user guide

https://www.uniden.info/download/ompdf/BC296Dom.pdf

You can always set it the VHF channels as conventional in digital mode, you won't be able to trunk track but you should be able to hear activity.
That scanner is more than 20 years old, maybe 25 years.

To clear the audio try changing the P25 threshhold settings. That use to help me on my monitoring.

Good luck

My 296D works on the Michigan state system (MPSCS, P25 phase 1) with no problem. The site I monitor does not have 700 MHz frequencies so 700 MHz could be a problem. I have never VHF trunking so I am of no help there.

 

[RStolting]

The scanner does require a band plan for P25 VHF and UHF trunking. Which system are you trying to monitor? I assume you are in Missouri. What is your city and county and which sites are you using?

MOSWIN, Lawrence Co, Freistatt

 

[RStolting]

I had this scanner many years ago.
The user guide says it does VHF trunking, I never programmed VHF so I can't help there.
And if I Remember, it does only type 1 and type 2 trunking, not phase 1 and definitely not phase 2

If you don't have it, here is a link the the user guide

https://www.uniden.info/download/ompdf/BC296Dom.pdf

You can always set it the VHF channels as conventional in digital mode, you won't be able to trunk track but you should be able to hear activity.
That scanner is more than 20 years old, maybe 25 years.

To clear the audio try changing the P25 threshhold settings. That use to help me on my monitoring.

Good luck

BC 296D, with the BCi-96d P25 card in it,

 

[GM]

You will need to gather data from Pro96Com (a separate trunking data decoding program) for the proper Custom Band Plan, and enter that information (Offset, Channel Spacing, and Base Frequency) into the BC296D. Also, you need to press the 9 button and hold it down for a few seconds while on a VHF frequency to "tune" the scanner for the best audio decoding while there is a P25 radio transmission.

 

[wtp]

4. Set the Base, Space and Offset settings. Note: Your BC296D allows you to enter up to three Base, Space, Offset configurations. However, most systems only use one configuration.
a. Use the scroll bar to select the configuration to program, then press E. BASE CONFIG 1
b. Enter the system’s base frequency, then press E.
c. Enter the system’s space frequency, then press E.
d. Enter the system’s channel offset, then press E.

Repeat a-d or press MENU/BACK three times to continue programming the system.

now if we just had the numbers...

 

[wtp]

• Bandplan #0: Base=851.00625 Offset=-45 Spacing=6.25 BW=12.5
• Bandplan #1: Base=762.00625 Offset=+30 Spacing=6.25 BW=12.5
• Bandplan #2: Base=851.01250 Offset=-45 Spacing=12.5 BW=12.5 Slots=2
• Bandplan #3: Base=762.00625 Offset=+30 Spacing=12.5 BW=12.5 Slots=2
• Bandplan #4: Base=136.00000 Offset=-4.6 Spacing=12.5 BW=12.5
• Bandplan #5: Base=142.42500 Offset=+5.26 Spacing=5.00 BW=12.5
• Bandplan #6: Base=145.32000 Offset=-1.6 Spacing=5.00 BW=12.5
• Bandplan #7: Base=140.11500 Offset=+3.465 Spacing=7.50 BW=12.5
• Bandplan #8: Base=139.57500 Offset=+3.885 Spacing=7.50 BW=12.5
• Bandplan #9: Base=137.27750 Offset=+0.9 Spacing=7.50 BW=12.5
• Bandplan #10: Base=136.00625 Offset=-4.6 Spacing=12.5 BW=12.5
• 
  
• 
  
• i would stick the VHF ones in.

 

[wtp]

i found some more
MOSWIN band plans for Older Uniden radios

Band Plan​	Low Base Frequency​	High Base Frequency​	Polarity​	Offset​	Spacing/Step​
1*​	161.99500​	161.99500​	+​	43039​	12.50​
2​	137.27000​	168.01250​	+​	36863​	7.50​
3​	140.11500​	170.85000​	+​	28672​	7.50​
4​	142.42500​	162.90000​	+​	20480​	5.00​
5​	136.00000​	174.00000​	+​	16384​	12.50​
6​	851.00625​	868.98750​	+​	0​	6.25​

 

[tvengr]

The BC296D and BC796D allow only 3 band plans. I'm pretty sure that the offset values in that chart are out of range for those scanners.

 

[BinaryMode]

If you're doing just control channel only monitoring, don't. Type in the one control channel in channel 1 and then the voice channels in the remainder.

I used my 296 to monitor a phase 1 system pretty flawlessly. Although, mobile I got some degradation probably due to it not being tuned right to the system. Wasn't often that happened though. Heck! My Uniden BCD396P2 in the car sometimes drops audio. And I've tuned it now twice! I watched the control channel for at least 10 minutes and tuned it appropriately.

Make sure "Scan Option" is set to trunk. Very important.

Select "Trunk Type: - ON

Try "Type 2/P25/VHF".

If the band plan is incorrect you can change it in the two custom areas in "Trunk Type." Either a type 1 or Type 2.

I should add that the difference between type 1 and type 2 is that type 1 is conventional, non trunked. Type 2 on the other hand is trunked, which is what MOSWIN is.

NOTE There are currently NO Phase 2 talkgroups or Phase 2 capable towers (But some towers "report" as Phase 2 capable via pro96com) DISREGARD THE PHASE II NOTE BELOW

Some talkgroups on this system may be using P25 Phase II TDMA modulation, which can only be monitored using a P25 Phase II capable scanner or receiver.

Okay... Missouri Statewide Wireless Interoperable Network (MOSWIN) - The RadioReference Wiki

 

[BinaryMode]

MOSWIN Programming for Scanners - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

You probably want band plan 5:

Low Base Frequency: 136.00000 High Base Frequency: 174.00000 + Offset: 16384 Spacing: 12.50

If you're monitoring Freistatt site/tower.

The band plan you provided outlines the frequency range, offset, step size, and channel bandwidth for a particular communication system. Here's what each part means:

136.00000: This is the starting frequency of the band plan, often referred to as the "low frequency" or the lower limit of the frequency range.

174.00000: This is the ending frequency of the band plan, often referred to as the "high frequency" or the upper limit of the frequency range.

+: This symbol indicates the direction of the offset. In this case, it's a positive offset.

16384: This is the frequency offset value. It indicates how much higher the repeater transmit frequency is compared to its receive frequency. The value 16384 typically represents 16.384 MHz (since frequency offsets are usually expressed in Hz). So, the repeater's transmit frequency is 16.384 MHz higher than its receive frequency.

12.50: This is the step size or frequency spacing, indicating the frequency difference between adjacent channels in the band plan. In this case, it's 12.50 kHz, meaning each channel is spaced 12.50 kHz apart from the next.

 

[KevinC]

I should add that the difference between type 1 and type 2 is that type 1 is conventional, non trunked. Type 2 on the other hand is trunked, which is what MOSWIN is.

Huh?

 

[wtp]

i was just trying to show some possibilities.
yes, 5 looks good.

 

[DVINTHEHOUSEMAN]

I have never seen an example of a BC296D working with non-800/900 P25 trunked systems. It won't accept the required offsets and my radio will jump to the input and not the output frequency. It likely doesn't play nice with multi-block TSBKs as IIRC explicit input and output frequencies require a multi-block packet and the input comes first. It works flawlessly with the MPSCS however, since it's a single block 800 system.

 

[tvengr]

I have never seen an example of a BC296D working with non-800/900 P25 trunked systems.

I monitored the UHF T-Band York County PA system with a BC796D, the mobile version of the BC296D. It needed only a single band plan. I seem to remember that the offset was something like 380. There were a couple of common offset values that would cover most systems.

 

[KevinC]

I monitored the UHF T-Band York County PA system with a BC796D, the mobile version of the BC296D. It needed only a single band plan. I seem to remember that the offset was something like 380. There were a couple of common offset values that would cover most systems.

UHF is a lot easier since the input/output are either 3 or 5 MHz apart, VHF not so much. You would need a band plan element for each different frequency pair (hence the beauty of multi-block TBSK’s).

 

[Randyk4661]

Huh?

I agree, "Huh?"

Back in the day when I programmed Motorola radios for a living, type 1 trunking was a legit form of trunking.