BCD436HP/BCD536HP: BCD536HP - shouldn't it skip encrypted audio?

[inetinfo2]

So I listen to my local trunked system called SVRCS or Silicon Valley Regional Comms System. It is a mix of encrypted police departments (except for Palo Alto, which has the main dispatch channel in the clear), fire departments, which are (I think) all in the clear, EMS (in the clear), and some other services, some encrypted and some in the clear. So shouldn't the 536 automatically detect that the audio is encrypted? What about the SDS200? Or do I have to mark the PD's as Avoid? The thing is, I don't know whether some of the other services are encrypted or not, so I don't want to mark services as Avoid and then miss out on traffic that's in the clear. Is there some "flag" that the scanner should be able to read to know if the channel is encrypted? Just now, "Parks Control" came on the air and the audio is garbled so apparently it's encrypted. Seems like a weird one to be encrypted given Fire is in the clear. That's my problem in a nutshell - no way for me to know for sure what's encrypted until it comes on the air and I can't understand the audio.
Thanks for the help.

 

[hiegtx]

That's my problem in a nutshell - no way for me to know for sure what's encrypted until it comes on the air and I can't understand the audio.

By default, the scanner should skip over encrypted audio. However, on one large system, that I monitor locally, occasionally, one of my scanners, including the SDS100, may stop on a channel that is encrypted. I suspect, that somewhere along the line, the scanner did not receive the 'flag' in the transmission indicting encryption was in use., Or perhaps it was somewhat garbled and not recognized, This rarely occurs; these are channels that are tagged as 'part time' encrypted, with the lower case e attached to the mode.

If the frequency is always encrypted, then set it as "avoid". But if, much of the time it is clear, not encrypted, then you could leave it as available to scan, if the channel is of interest. It's your call whether the channel is interesting enough to still scan, and ignore the occasional encrypted traffic that was not recognized early enough for the scanner to skip over it.

 

[inetinfo2]

By default, the scanner should skip over encrypted audio. However, on one large system, that I monitor locally, occasionally, one of my scanners, including the SDS100, may stop on a channel that is encrypted. I suspect, that somewhere along the line, the scanner did not receive the 'flag' in the transmission indicting encryption was in use., Or perhaps it was somewhat garbled and not recognized, This rarely occurs; these are channels that are tagged as 'part time' encrypted, with the lower case e attached to the mode.

If the frequency is always encrypted, then set it as "avoid". But if, much of the time it is clear, not encrypted, then you could leave it as available to scan, if the channel is of interest. It's your call whether the channel is interesting enough to still scan, and ignore the occasional encrypted traffic that was not recognized early enough for the scanner to skip over it.

Thanks for the reply. For some reason, today I'm getting a lot more encrypted traffic than usual, mainly San Jose PD. I plan to mark the entire department as Avoid. I guess I just need to use trial and error to determine which TGIDs are encrypted and which aren't.

I read somewhere that the Uniden scanners will automatically silence (or skip) a P25 Phase 1 TGID encrypted transmission, but if the system is Phase 2, they cannot do this. Of course the SVRCS is a Phase 2 system..

I see that the "Mode" field in the RR database indicates whether or not the TGID is always encrypted (second letter an uppercase E), which you talked about. Apparently Sentinel doesn't include this field when querying the RR database, or, there is no option to automatically mark any talkgroup/channel as Avoid where "Mode" has an uppercase E as the second letter. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Does anyone know if Butel or ProScan has this as an option? It would save me a *lot* of time.

Thank you.

 

[RMason]

I see that the "Mode" field in the RR database indicates whether or not the TGID is always encrypted (second letter an uppercase E). Apparently Sentinel doesn't include this field when querying the RR database, or, there is no option to automatically mark any talkgroup/channel as Avoid where "Mode" has an uppercase E as the second letter. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Does anyone know if Butel or ProScan has this as an option? It would save me a *lot* of time.

See discussion here:

Sentinel: - Sentinel Master Database Software Encryption Question

Unless I am missing it, is there an easy way to identify encrypted TG's in the master database once you download it or is that not supported.

forums.radioreference.com

 

[hiegtx]

Does anyone know if Butel or ProScan has this as an option? It would save me a *lot* of time.

As was noted in the thread that RMason linked, ProScan does have the option to skip importing 'full time encrypted channels", flagged with a capital E in the RRDB. It does, however, import 'part time encrypted' channels (lower case e). I don't have the Butel's ARC software (I use ProScan), but there are some other ARC software packages that have the option to skip importing encrypted items.

The "encryption status" is not included in the RRDB that Sentinel uses. ProScan (and the ARC software) imports from the full database. Neither is there a indicator (in Sentinel's database) whether P25 trunk systems TGIDs are Phase I (mode D) or Phase II (mode T). Changing that would require altering both the programming and data structure used in Sentinel, as well as an overhaul of the programming that Uniden uses to harvest database changes to incorporate in the weekly database updates.

 

[inetinfo2]

As was noted in the thread that RMason linked, ProScan does have the option to skip importing 'full time encrypted channels", flagged with a capital E in the RRDB. It does, however, import 'part time encrypted' channels (lower case e). I don't have the Butel's ARC software (I use ProScan), but there are some other ARC software packages that have the option to skip importing encrypted items.

The "encryption status" is not included in the RRDB that Sentinel uses. ProScan (and the ARC software) imports from the full database. Neither is there a indicator (in Sentinel's database) whether P25 trunk systems TGIDs are Phase I (mode D) or Phase II (mode T). Changing that would require altering both the programming and data structure used in Sentinel, as well as an overhaul of the programming that Uniden uses to harvest database changes to incorporate in the weekly database updates.

Thanks for the link to the thread, I will read that. In ProScan, are you able to find duplicate frequencies easily? As I am building my local commercial air frequencies, I see some duplicated frequencies. And there may be a lot! Somewhere I read that the Butel software makes that easy, but it didn't mention ProScan. <UPDATE: according to a quick AI search, ProScan can also show duplicate frequencies. ProScan it is!>

Thanks as well for confirming that Sentinel doesn't bring over the Mode field from the RR database. That's a bummer. But it's a good reason to buy ProScan or something else that looks at the Mode field. As an aside, does ProScan not import the TGID, or does it import it but mark it as Avoid?

 

[RMason]

In ProScan, are you able to find duplicate frequencies easily?

Yes - Proscan has a Find Duplicates utility.

As an aside, does ProScan not import the TGID, or does it import it but mark it as Avoid?

Proscan has 3 options for importing full-time encrypted TGIDs:

• Don't import
• Import
• Import with Lockout (Avoid) set

You can try the 30 day fully functional demo/trial of Proscan before purchasing.

 

[hiegtx]

Thanks for the link to the thread, I will read that. In ProScan, are you able to find duplicate frequencies easily?

ProScan also has a utility for finding duplicates.

 

[inetinfo2]

Thanks @RMason and @hiegtx - I've downloaded the trial of ProScan. I guess I'll find out soon enough, but, does ProScan import the Favorites lists I have already made in Sentinel? And if so, since they do not include the Mode field, how would ProScan deal with that? Or do I have to build new lists pulled directly from the RR database?

 

[ofd8001]

If you are listening with a 536 on a simulcast system and hear garbled traffic, consider the possibility of simulcast distortion. The 536 isn't very good about decoding simulcast systems and this can show up as garbled or missing audio.

For a time, a couple of firmware editions ago, when my 536 "hit" on an ADP encrypted channel, I would hear an awful noise that couldn't be characterized as garble.

 

[ProScan]

Thanks @RMason and @hiegtx - I've downloaded the trial of ProScan. I guess I'll find out soon enough, but, does ProScan import the Favorites lists I have already made in Sentinel? And if so, since they do not include the Mode field, how would ProScan deal with that? Or do I have to build new lists pulled directly from the RR database?

ProScan can open the favorites lists in Sentinel directly. Go to the Favorites Editor - File - Open, then choose the Sentinel folder.
You can input the encrypted channels manually. Click on the favorites lists in the tree and drill down to the department of channel level and enter them in. You can also use the Get Clipboard function to input them using a webpage or other document with a list of encrypted channels. If you have a RR subscription then you can import the systems directly from the RRDB.

 

[inetinfo2]

ProScan can open the favorites lists in Sentinel directly. Go to the Favorites Editor - File - Open, then choose the Sentinel folder.
You can input the encrypted channels manually. Click on the favorites lists in the tree and drill down to the department of channel level and enter them in. You can also use the Get Clipboard function to input them using a webpage or other document with a list of encrypted channels. If you have a RR subscription then you can import the systems directly from the RRDB.

Marking them manually sort of defeats the purpose - I can do that in Sentinel now. I guess I can just rebuild new favorites lists with ProScan from the RR database (I have a subscription). I was hoping for some magic where ProScan opens the Sentinel lists and then looks at the RR database and marks up my Sentinel list (mark up as in marks frequencies/TGIDs with a Mode of "TE" to Avoid). But there are other advantages to ProScan such as de-duplication.

 

[inetinfo2]

If you are listening with a 536 on a simulcast system and hear garbled traffic, consider the possibility of simulcast distortion. The 536 isn't very good about decoding simulcast systems and this can show up as garbled or missing audio.

For a time, a couple of firmware editions ago, when my 536 "hit" on an ADP encrypted channel, I would hear an awful noise that couldn't be characterized as garble.

The traffic is on known encrypted channels - but I'm aware of the issue with simulcasts and the 536. I'm getting an SDS200 soon and I assume (from what I've read) that will take care of that.