Budget GMRS Mobile and HT Setup (Seeking Advice!)

[WBA]

Hello to all. This is my first post to RR. I have been lurking in the shadows for the past few days and appreciate all of the knowledge shared.
I'm also new to GMRS (and radio in general). I have been getting my feet wet in the basics for about a month (mainly through casual listening of Randy @ notarubicon).

In typical "me" fashion, I like to jump right in and tend to flourish best when I'm in way over my head. Hence the subject of this post.

I am attempting to create a local Farm coms system and I will be working with the following radios of unknown prior use:
-Motorola Radius cp200 HT (Qty 2)
-ICOM FC-F6011 LMR. (Qty 1)

While I will certainly tolerate and politely ignore all the reprimands and admonitions of why those may be poor choices and which would be better options, that's not the purpose of this post. Consider this an exercise in economy and working with whatcha' got.

My ultimate goal is to get these all working together in wonderful GMRS harmonic bliss. I believe I have programming cables and software sourced for both models (still awaiting delivery).

Here are my specific questions (in no specific order):

1) When I turn on the cp200 the first 4 channels are quiet, while the remaining 12 of the 16 have an audible continuous tone when selected. This is the case for both radios. Does this mean that I have radios that are limited to 4 channels? If so, is this something that can be modified during programming?

2) When I go to program the ICOM, will the radio be powered by the cable connection to USB (at the PC) or do I require a separate DC source? If DC source needed can I make use of a 12 Volt battery for the cloning procedure?

3) For testing and coordinating purposes I would like a decent mag mount antenna for bench testing. While I am not afraid to "drill the hole," at this point and for budget considerations I would like a mag mount "plug and play" GMRS that would suffice for bench testing and to swap between multiple units. I'm sure "decent" and "mag mount plug-and-play" don't have any business in the same sentence. But, if you had to choose under those parameters, what would it be?

4) I have read the ICOM user manual and cannot get my head around how to know which channel is selected. I understand there are 8 channels but it appears there are only 4 led channel indicators?

5) If you were trying to program the ICOM and wanted to keep it simple, which of the functions would you choose for the coveted 4 program buttons?

6) What resources would you recommend to study up or better understand what I will be going through with programming/coordinating these radios? I have been searching for some sort of generalized "obsolete commercial radio programming" tutorial, but have come up short.

7) What would be your advice regarding: "Don't make these common stupid mistakes?"

Any additional thoughts would be much appreciated.

I see this as phase one in the "TO DO" list for this project. I'll have TONS more questions in phase 2 (if you'll tolerate them!)

Many thanks in advance for your time.

 

[mmckenna]

1) When I turn on the cp200 the first 4 channels are quiet, while the remaining 12 of the 16 have an audible continuous tone when selected. This is the case for both radios. Does this mean that I have radios that are limited to 4 channels? If so, is this something that can be modified during programming?

Usually an indication that those channels are not programmed.

2) When I go to program the ICOM, will the radio be powered by the cable connection to USB (at the PC) or do I require a separate DC source? If DC source needed can I make use of a 12 Volt battery for the cloning procedure?

The radio will not power up off the programming connection. You will need to supply 12 volts DC. Battery can work, but make sure it is charged. The last thing you want is for the radio to lose power in the middle of programming.

3) For testing and coordinating purposes I would like a decent mag mount antenna for bench testing. While I am not afraid to "drill the hole," at this point and for budget considerations I would like a mag mount "plug and play" GMRS that would suffice for bench testing and to swap between multiple units. I'm sure "decent" and "mag mount plug-and-play" don't have any business in the same sentence. But, if you had to choose under those parameters, what would it be?

Larsen NMO-MM magnetic mount with the UHF/PL-259 connector on the end of the coax to match the radio.
Add a Larsen NMOQ antenna that has been cut for 465MHz.

NMO mount is the defacto standard in the 2 way radio industry, so setting yourself up for that will make life easier in the future.

4) I have read the ICOM user manual and cannot get my head around how to know which channel is selected. I understand there are 8 channels but it appears there are only 4 led channel indicators?

Likely the radio is only programmed for 4 channels like the portables.
If I remember correctly, the LED either flashes, or changes colors when you are on the 5-8 channels.

5) If you were trying to program the ICOM and wanted to keep it simple, which of the functions would you choose for the coveted 4 program buttons?

1- Monitor. This opens the squelch and lets you hear all the traffic on the channel. It's a good test to confirm the radio can hear things.
2- If you plan on using the scan function, program one for scan.

3-4, whatever you want. As you grow you'll learn what features you need and don't need. No one can really tell you what you will benefit from, as that is something you need to figure out yourself based on your own needs.

But....
High/Low power selection is good. It's good operating practice to to use the lowest power you need to maintain communications.

6) What resources would you recommend to study up or better understand what I will be going through with programming/coordinating these radios? I have been searching for some sort of generalized "obsolete commercial radio programming" tutorial, but have come up short.

There really isn't any. The programming is specific to the brand/model, so generic programming guides do not exist, nor would they be useful. Some of the terms used different between brands, so the terms used for programming the Motorola will be different than the Icom.

#1 rule: Do not program the radios to transmit on any frequencies you do not hold an FCC license for, under any circumstances. That'll keep you from accidentally making a mistake and interfering with someone else.

Other than that, it's usually using the software help files, and asking questions here. Most of this stuff comes from experience.

7) What would be your advice regarding: "Don't make these common stupid mistakes?"

#1 stupid mistakes I see is people that program radios to transmit on frequencies they are not licensed for. "Don't be THAT guy!" applies here. No matter what the amateur radio operators, SHTF/Preppers or other low IQ people tell you, there is no permissions granted to use frequencies outside your license under any circumstances. That's the quick way to get in trouble.

Fully understand tone squelch systems and how they'll impact receiving. Very common mistake that frustrates users.

Other HUGE one is that it is not about the number of watts your radio is transmitting with, it -IS- -ALL- -ABOUT- -THE- -ANTENNA-!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! People that don't understand radio will spend lots of money on a good radio, then hook it up to a $20 antenna, and then will not understand why their top of the line radio doesn't work. It is all about the antenna. It is all about the antenna, and it is all about the antenna.

Be really, really, really careful listening to guys on YouTube. A lot of the radio stuff on there is absolute BS done by guys that don't really know what they are talking about. I've found that most (as in more than half) the radio hobby type stuff on YouTube is wrong, ill informed, or downright illegal.

Any additional thoughts would be much appreciated.

I see this as phase one in the "TO DO" list for this project. I'll have TONS more questions in phase 2 (if you'll tolerate them!)

Many thanks in advance for your time.

Ask questions. That's how you'll learn. You are in the right place for that.

 

[WBA]

mmckenna: I appreciate you. Thank you for the detailed response.

A couple questions for clarification if you'd be so kind:

1- Monitor. This opens the squelch and lets you hear all the traffic on the channel. It's a good test to confirm the radio can hear things.

I am guessing you are referring to the option on page 3 here: "moni (audi) key." Am I correct in thinking that this will only open the user squelch (eg: CTCSS tone) and not the noise squelch (like that knob on my cb radio) ?

While we're on the squelch topic, how is the noise squelch adjusted (or is noise squelch just irrelevant because of the tone squelch?)

Also, in the discussion of the moni function above the manual lists "LMR" and "PMR" Operation. "Land Mobile Radio" I knew and "Private Mobile Radio" I googled up, but I don't comprehend the difference. Is it significant or should I just move on (assuming that LMR is default?)

2- If you plan on using the scan function, program one for scan.

Am I correct in thinking that if just limited to 8 channels and in GMRS, and likely only using with other men and women in my group and having a "default contact" channel/frequency the scan fx would be more annoying/confusing than helpful? Anything I'm missing here?

But....
High/Low power selection is good. It's good operating practice to to use the lowest power you need to maintain communications.

Roger that. Makes sense.

Fully understand tone squelch systems and how they'll impact receiving. Very common mistake that frustrates users.

As an example we're talking about CTCSS tones and specifically programming them to be transmitted and received by all radios in the network?

Be really, really, really careful listening to guys on YouTube.

I appreciate the caution. Somewhere I heard: "prove all things and hold fast that which is good." This coupled with chewing the meat and spitting out the bones...

Thanks again.

 

[mmckenna]

mmckenna: I appreciate you. Thank you for the detailed response.

A couple questions for clarification if you'd be so kind:


I am guessing you are referring to the option on page 3 here: "moni (audi) key." Am I correct in thinking that this will only open the user squelch (eg: CTCSS tone) and not the noise squelch (like that knob on my cb radio) ?

It's been a while since I've programmed any Icom radios, so I don't remember exactly how they handle it.

Some radios will just defeat the CTCSS/DCS on the receive side, but not open the squelch. Reason to use that is to make sure the channel/repeater isn't in use before you transmit.
Some radios will fully open the squelch, like on your CB.
Some of the Motorola radios would open the squelch fully if the button is held.

While we're on the squelch topic, how is the noise squelch adjusted (or is noise squelch just irrelevant because of the tone squelch?)

It should be adjusted so the squelch is closed unless there is radio traffic. Even if using tone squelch.

The common way to set this up on the professional side is for the mobile radios to defeat the CTCSS squelch on the receive side when taking the microphone off the hanger. You'd still want the noise squelch closed when you did that, but defeating the tone squelch lets you hear if there are other users on the channel/repeater before transmitting.

It's good manners to do that before transmitting, and required by FCC rules to prevent interference. If you set up tone squelch on your radio and just assume no one is on the channel, you might interfere with them.

Also, in the discussion of the moni function above the manual lists "LMR" and "PMR" Operation. "Land Mobile Radio" I knew and "Private Mobile Radio" I googled up, but I don't comprehend the difference. Is it significant or should I just move on (assuming that LMR is default?)

Yes, on the Icom's they have that.

You want LMR.

Am I correct in thinking that if just limited to 8 channels and in GMRS, and likely only using with other men and women in my group and having a "default contact" channel/frequency the scan fx would be more annoying/confusing than helpful? Anything I'm missing here?

Two things to consider:

Scanning can be an issue. There may be users on the other GMRS channels, and likely you don't want to always be listening to them. It'll get annoying really quick. If not for you, the others that are using your radios. Also, if you are scanning, you may miss traffic you want to hear. "If you are scanning, you aren't listening". There are ways to set up priority scan functions, but it must be done correctly and it is not foolproof.

I've found over the decades of doing this that keeping the radio operation as simple as possible is going to make for a better experience. Users that are not "tech savvy" don't want lots of confusing buttons getting in their way. They -WILL- hit the wrong button at the wrong time and end up not hearing you calling them. Scanning can result in them getting confused by hearing other users. I've personally found that having one default channel that the radios sit on with a tone or digital squelch set will work better for most users.

The "perfect" non-technical user radio in my mind is one that only has an on/off switch and a push to talk button. Any other controls will confuse people and make for a frustrating experience. I had a few hand held radios that were set up with one GMRS frequency programmed exactly the same into every single channel position. All other buttons/switches were disabled. All the user had to remember was to turn it on, adjust the volume and "push to talk, release to listen".

Roger that. Makes sense.


As an example we're talking about CTCSS tones and specifically programming them to be transmitted and received by all radios in the network?

Yes. They are a very useful tool, but a lot of new GMRS/ham users don't understand how they work and get frustrated.

CTCSS tones are useful if you want to just hear radios that are set up the same. It's good to reduce hearing traffic from other users that are not part of your family. It's not foolproof, but it helps.

Where new users run into problems is setting up tone squelch on the RX side, but not setting it correctly, and then not hearing anything. Lots of posts on this site with those sorts of issues.

I appreciate the caution. Somewhere I heard: "prove all things and hold fast that which is good." This coupled with chewing the meat and spitting out the bones...

Yeah, there's a lot of bad information out there.

One thing I would recommend:
Read and fully understand the FCC Part 95 rules that apply to GMRS. Some get upset that rules exist because they assume the rules are there to prevent them from doing what they want. Truth is the rules are there to make sure that everyone can share the limited resource that is our radio spectrum. Some make assumptions about what radios are legal, or what frequencies they can use without understanding the requirements. It just makes a mess for everyone else.

 

[WBA]

Alright. I want to make sure I am understanding squelch tones correctly.
In this scenario: Radios "A" and "B" are both programmed with the same DCS codes for both TX and RX. Radio "C" has no DCS codes programmed. All radios are set to TX and RX on the same Frequency (simplex).

When Radio A TX, both B & C will RX.
When Radio C TX, A&B will not RX.

If I am understanding this correctly, is there any way to make it so that when "A" TX, only "B" will receive and not "C?"

I'm guessing I'm asking a simple question. Feel free to direct me to the homework assignment I may have missed...

 

[sallen07]

If I am understanding this correctly, is there any way to make it so that when "A" TX, only "B" will receive and not "C?"

No.

A radio without a receive squelch tone set will hear any traffic on that frequency, whether the transmission includes a tone or not.

There is no "privacy" provided by squelch tones, no matter what a vendor might call them. They keep you from hearing traffic you don't want to hear, but they do not keep someone else from hearing your traffic.

 

[WBA]

Also, what is the best way to set these radios up to RX only? Is it sufficient to just have them programmed without any TX frequencies? Will they still be able to RX DCS coded TX from GMRS and FRS radios?

Thanks in advance.

 

[WBA]

A radio without a receive squelch tone set will hear any traffic on that frequency, whether the transmission includes a tone or not.

Thank you sallen07. Is it possible for a GMRS TX radio (like a Midland MXT115 or Wouxun KG-1000G) to be programmed to only TX to a specific radio or group of radios? Is this even possible?

 

[tomk62]

#1 rule: Do not program the radios to transmit on any frequencies you do not hold an FCC license for, under any circumstances. That'll keep you from accidentally making a mistake and interfering with someone else.

You're right, but if we're going to follow that rule, shouldn't we also follow the rule about only using FCC GMRS approved equipment?

 

[mmckenna]

You're right, but if we're going to follow that rule, shouldn't we also follow the rule about only using FCC GMRS approved equipment?

Absolutely.

One step at a time, not always best to overwhelm new users with a wall of rules.

Depending on the exact Icom model, it may have Part 95 approval. I ran a lot of Icom gear back when I was active on GMRS specifically because of this.
As for the CP200's, I haven't looked those up.

 

[mmckenna]

Also, what is the best way to set these radios up to RX only? Is it sufficient to just have them programmed without any TX frequencies? Will they still be able to RX DCS coded TX from GMRS and FRS radios?

Thanks in advance.

On the Motorola radios, there may be a check box for "RX only Personality".
On the Icom, if I recall correctly, you just leave the TX frequency field blank, or see if there's a checkbox for RX only.

The RX DCS/CTCSS settings will still work on an RX only personality.

 

[mmckenna]

Thank you sallen07. Is it possible for a GMRS TX radio (like a Midland MXT115 or Wouxun KG-1000G) to be programmed to only TX to a specific radio or group of radios? Is this even possible?

No. Once you transmit on GMRS, any radio that is receiving that frequency will hear it.

You cannot force RF to only go to specific radios. The only way to restrict reception of radio traffic is to use encryption, and encryption is very specifically NOT permitted on GMRS.

 

[sallen07]

Thank you sallen07. Is it possible for a GMRS TX radio (like a Midland MXT115 or Wouxun KG-1000G) to be programmed to only TX to a specific radio or group of radios? Is this even possible?

Not with a GMRS radio, no. Your radio transmits a signal that radiates out in all directions and can be picked up by anyone in range.

 

[rf_patriot200]

Hello to all. This is my first post to RR. I have been lurking in the shadows for the past few days and appreciate all of the knowledge shared.
I'm also new to GMRS (and radio in general). I have been getting my feet wet in the basics for about a month (mainly through casual listening of Randy @ notarubicon).

In typical "me" fashion, I like to jump right in and tend to flourish best when I'm in way over my head. Hence the subject of this post.

I am attempting to create a local Farm coms system and I will be working with the following radios of unknown prior use:
-Motorola Radius cp200 HT (Qty 2)
-ICOM FC-F6011 LMR. (Qty 1)

While I will certainly tolerate and politely ignore all the reprimands and admonitions of why those may be poor choices and which would be better options, that's not the purpose of this post. Consider this an exercise in economy and working with whatcha' got.

My ultimate goal is to get these all working together in wonderful GMRS harmonic bliss. I believe I have programming cables and software sourced for both models (still awaiting delivery).

Here are my specific questions (in no specific order):

1) When I turn on the cp200 the first 4 channels are quiet, while the remaining 12 of the 16 have an audible continuous tone when selected. This is the case for both radios. Does this mean that I have radios that are limited to 4 channels? If so, is this something that can be modified during programming?

2) When I go to program the ICOM, will the radio be powered by the cable connection to USB (at the PC) or do I require a separate DC source? If DC source needed can I make use of a 12 Volt battery for the cloning procedure?

3) For testing and coordinating purposes I would like a decent mag mount antenna for bench testing. While I am not afraid to "drill the hole," at this point and for budget considerations I would like a mag mount "plug and play" GMRS that would suffice for bench testing and to swap between multiple units. I'm sure "decent" and "mag mount plug-and-play" don't have any business in the same sentence. But, if you had to choose under those parameters, what would it be?

4) I have read the ICOM user manual and cannot get my head around how to know which channel is selected. I understand there are 8 channels but it appears there are only 4 led channel indicators?

5) If you were trying to program the ICOM and wanted to keep it simple, which of the functions would you choose for the coveted 4 program buttons?

6) What resources would you recommend to study up or better understand what I will be going through with programming/coordinating these radios? I have been searching for some sort of generalized "obsolete commercial radio programming" tutorial, but have come up short.

7) What would be your advice regarding: "Don't make these common stupid mistakes?"

Any additional thoughts would be much appreciated.

I see this as phase one in the "TO DO" list for this project. I'll have TONS more questions in phase 2 (if you'll tolerate them!)

Many thanks in advance for your time.

Retevis.com

 

[JustinWHT]

When Radio A TX, both B & C will RX.
When Radio C TX, A&B will not RX.

If I am understanding this correctly, is there any way to make it so that when "A" TX, only "B" will receive and not "C?"

No, because radio "C" has an open squelch.

 

[kny2xb]

On the Icom, if I recall correctly, you just leave the TX frequency field blank, or see if there's a checkbox for RX only.

In the Icom software there is a spot marked TX Inh, for Transmit Inhibit, select TX Inhibit, & an i will appear
If you select TX Enable, that spot will be blank
In the older Icom software, it actually spells out TX Inhibit, you check that & Off will appear
Hope this helps
73

 

[mmckenna]

In the Icom software there is a spot marked TX Inh, for Transmit Inhibit, select TX Inhibit, & an i will appear
If you select TX Enable, that spot will be blank
In the older Icom software, it actually spells out TX Inhibit, you check that & Off will appear
Hope this helps
73

Thanks. It's been quite a while since I programmed any Icom LMR gear. I think the 621 was the last model I touched.

I did just end up with a few IC-F4001 UHF hand held's that I need to play with at work.

 

[kny2xb]

Thanks. It's been quite a while since I programmed any Icom LMR gear. I think the 621 was the last model I touched.

I did just end up with a few IC-F4001 UHF hand held's that I need to play with at work.

You're more than welcome

For the many questions you've answered for myself & other users on here, I'm glad that I could help you out for once

I was going to buy an F4021 [I didn't], I acquired the software just to play with it beforehand, so the screenshot is from the software that WBA will need