Calgary, CAN Tweeting police scanner news 'risky,' say police

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georgesharpe

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I do concur with Inspector Mike Tillotson of Calgary. I have long felt that too much misinformation that people disseminate after hearing a scanner feed on thier app, is getting out of hand. Some controls/limits are needed here. In the past when our PD was in the clear, whenever I called in a suspect sighting, crime in progress, hit and run driver, etc., I was always very careful to descibe exactly what I saw as I saw it, and made no assumptions on what I heard on the scanner. Being aware of the Radio Act, I would only pass on info to the originator of the radio message, and would never go out to confront, anyone, and would let the "pros" deal with it. Some of the more senior officers really appreciated my eyes and ears, and I was invited to become a neigborhood watch captain, but as my work took me out of the country very often, I was not able to take them up on it.
 
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DaveNF2G

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I still believe that a lot of unnecessary grief comes from not enforcing the laws already on the books.

Somebody is tweeting information straight from a scanner? Complain to the FBI about the violation of Section 605 of the Communications Act of 1934. A few federal prosecutions would go a long way toward solving the problem, and would be a lot cheaper than spending local taxpayer money to buy encryption capability, with all the new headaches that will entail.
 

robertmac

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And of course, the police will use every excuse they can lay their hands on to encrypt their transmissions. Hearing some of the dirty words, putting down citizens, etc. it is no wonder they don't want people to hear what they have to say. They want to create their own police state. But remember, there are a lot more eyes and ears in the community than there are police. And who found the Boston bomer. Had this been hidden through encryption and muzzling of the media, who know what would have happened or what will happen in the future.
 

zerg901

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How are you going to stop Joe Blow from tweeting the action as he looks out the window of his house or drives by in his car?
 

JoeyC

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How are you going to stop Joe Blow from tweeting the action as he looks out the window of his house or drives by in his car?

Obviously you can't stop that one guy. But they certainly can shut off the 1900 listeners with scanners and smartphones.
 
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DaveNF2G

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Joe Blow isn't breaking the law by tweeting what he sees from his window. Apples and oranges.
 

VE5JL

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I've been asked to stream audio a few times and I won't for the reason of misuse. However in this maybe a case of the police may not want 'controlled' information to become public by someone by any means.

It is like tweeting from a court room. No longer can they control the information if it is being reported live.
 

gaburbano

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I think some people are getting alittle crazy over this stuff... First of all, all the news networks are in a race to put out info on any major event, and they are reporting on what is coming across the scanners that they are listening to, the cops that give them info, as well as firefighters, paramedics and the people on the block..

How does tweeting what they are listening to or what they are reading online a crime..?? People want to cite a law that was in 1934 before any social media or the internet was around??

Today is the day of rapid information, where news gets sent across the internet as fast as its happening. Whether it comes from police scanners, policemen themselves, or the people that are witnessing, I think the FBI has enough problems of their own to be worried about people putting out info from scanners.. In now way does listening or following the action endanger anyone..Now if people start flying around in their cars to go see it live after listening on their scanners, well thats another story..
If anyone is going to use their iphone scanner app to try and avoid being caught as they are listening to the police, they will find that as the info comes over their app, the cops are putting the handcuffs on them... so this really doesnt need to be blown out of proportion..

George
 

gaburbano

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They want to encrypt their radios thats fine for some small town department.. Radios that use encryption use a tremendous amount of battery power, NYC has over 130,000 radios used in the 3 major departments PD, EMS and Fire.. Its bad enough they over pay for the radios they have much less pay more for any type of encryption.. And at any time they are 4 news choppers, 2000 freelance photographers and 4 major networks that run about 6-10 news vans every day all over the city. Not to mention the other 5000 or so amateurs with cameras, and the 4 million people with iphones and other video and photo capable phones.. Wherever the news is people will find out.. and scanners are just a small part of it..

george
 

gtaman

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They want to encrypt their radios thats fine for some small town department.. Radios that use encryption use a tremendous amount of battery power, NYC has over 130,000 radios used in the 3 major departments PD, EMS and Fire.. Its bad enough they over pay for the radios they have much less pay more for any type of encryption.. And at any time they are 4 news choppers, 2000 freelance photographers and 4 major networks that run about 6-10 news vans every day all over the city. Not to mention the other 5000 or so amateurs with cameras, and the 4 million people with iphones and other video and photo capable phones.. Wherever the news is people will find out.. and scanners are just a small part of it..

george

Exactly.
 

MTS2000des

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They want to encrypt their radios thats fine for some small town department.. Radios that use encryption use a tremendous amount of battery power, NYC has over 130,000 radios used in the 3 major departments PD, EMS and Fire.. Its bad enough they over pay for the radios they have much less pay more for any type of encryption.. And at any time they are 4 news choppers, 2000 freelance photographers and 4 major networks that run about 6-10 news vans every day all over the city. Not to mention the other 5000 or so amateurs with cameras, and the 4 million people with iphones and other video and photo capable phones.. Wherever the news is people will find out.. and scanners are just a small part of it..

george

Encryption does not drain portable batteries. This is not the case with modern digital radios. ADP encryption on Astro 25 is software based and doesn't even require any additional hardware. It's usually a throw-in or as little as $10 a unit- and requires no centralized key management solution. It's sole purpose is to render all those media scanners a paperweight.

This isn't 1990 and agencies aren't using Securenet Sabers.

I've said it before: loose lips sink ships. The tweeting or repeating of public safety radio traffic is bad for the scanning hobby. It's also bad for public safety, what happened in Boston is proof of this. I would not be surprised if the terrorists were getting those tweets, scanner audio or both.

I am sure it will come out sooner or later.

Either way, orders for things like ADP will be on the increase.
 

gtaman

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Encryption does not drain portable batteries. This is not the case with modern digital radios. ADP encryption on Astro 25 is software based and doesn't even require any additional hardware. It's usually a throw-in or as little as $10 a unit- and requires no centralized key management solution. It's sole purpose is to render all those media scanners a paperweight.

This isn't 1990 and agencies aren't using Securenet Sabers.

I've said it before: loose lips sink ships. The tweeting or repeating of public safety radio traffic is bad for the scanning hobby. It's also bad for public safety, what happened in Boston is proof of this. I would not be surprised if the terrorists were getting those tweets, scanner audio or both.

I am sure it will come out sooner or later.

Either way, orders for things like ADP will be on the increase.


Just gonna throw this on the table. What about interprobility. With a highly populated area with many agencies encryption will do more harm than good. I do accept the fact that people should not spill the beans on what they hear on the scanner. If someone wants to listen they should buy thier own scanner or radio. I don't know why someone in Washington statr needs to listen to Detroit public safety. This even for major incidents. Why does someone need to listen to everything thats goes on from across the country. I know it's very exciting but it should not be publicised and boasted all over the net.
 

gaburbano

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Nonsense...

Encryption does not drain portable batteries. This is not the case with modern digital radios. ADP encryption on Astro 25 is software based and doesn't even require any additional hardware. It's usually a throw-in or as little as $10 a unit- and requires no centralized key management solution. It's sole purpose is to render all those media scanners a paperweight.

This isn't 1990 and agencies aren't using Securenet Sabers.

I've said it before: loose lips sink ships. The tweeting or repeating of public safety radio traffic is bad for the scanning hobby. It's also bad for public safety, what happened in Boston is proof of this. I would not be surprised if the terrorists were getting those tweets, scanner audio or both.

I am sure it will come out sooner or later.

Either way, orders for things like ADP will be on the increase.

**Wait*** For those that didnt know, within 45 seconds of the suspect giving himself up, the Boston PD tweeted it, and CNN was broadcasting it live...
Within 4 minutes the photo of the suspect giving himself up was posted by Police Crews..

Thats faster than the delay that exists in Live feeds..

Its bad for public safety how?? Ive worked in Emergency Services for the past 27yrs in NYC, and nobody has ever been hurt injured or any suspect ever escape because of scanners..

Yeah, this terrorist suspect who was hiding inside a boat while bleeding, weak, starving and cold and in shock, was looking for a scanner or his phone to get updated tweets..

We really need to keep this into perspective.. and stop fanning this fire..

Calgary, California, nobody even knows where that is... so for some cop from nowhere USA to start inciting this paranoia is ridiculous.. I cannot help but laugh at all this nonsense.

Scanners will be around for ever, and by the way the XTS-5000 with encryption kills their batteries faster than the nonencrypted models. The non-encrypted models batteries last about 10hrs under "NYC USE" the encrypted versions last about 4hrs. which is why nobody uses it. When the police dont want something overheard they wont say it on the radio..That policy is cheaper and safer than trying to get out on an encrypted radio or worse yet, finding your battery dying.

George
 

gaburbano

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And you're right gtaman.. Under federal guidelines for "interoperatebility between agencies" all radio systems are to have channels where different agencies can communicate with each other.
Also, all transmission via radio are to be in regular spoken english and codes are not to be used.

After 9-11 this was a major problem in NYC. Different agencies had different codes and different radios and operating on different freqs. None of them could communicate with each other.

Already you have multiple agencies in neighboring states and counties that cannot communicate with each other. As time goes on these agencies and municipalities will lose federal dollars cause of it. Worse yet, they will endanger their own people.

But this is what happens when these small towns spend their taxpayers money unnecessarily under the so called public safety protection that requires encryption. People will go along with anything, until their tax bill comes in..
 

Jay911

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**Wait*** For those that didnt know, within 45 seconds of the suspect giving himself up, the Boston PD tweeted it, and CNN was broadcasting it live...
Within 4 minutes the photo of the suspect giving himself up was posted by Police Crews..

Thats faster than the delay that exists in Live feeds..

Its bad for public safety how?? Ive worked in Emergency Services for the past 27yrs in NYC, and nobody has ever been hurt injured or any suspect ever escape because of scanners..

Yeah, this terrorist suspect who was hiding inside a boat while bleeding, weak, starving and cold and in shock, was looking for a scanner or his phone to get updated tweets..

We really need to keep this into perspective.. and stop fanning this fire..

Calgary, California, nobody even knows where that is... so for some cop from nowhere USA to start inciting this paranoia is ridiculous.. I cannot help but laugh at all this nonsense.

Scanners will be around for ever, and by the way the XTS-5000 with encryption kills their batteries faster than the nonencrypted models. The non-encrypted models batteries last about 10hrs under "NYC USE" the encrypted versions last about 4hrs. which is why nobody uses it. When the police dont want something overheard they wont say it on the radio..That policy is cheaper and safer than trying to get out on an encrypted radio or worse yet, finding your battery dying.

George

(1) The title of the thread may be a little misleading. The CA is surely meant to be Canada. Calgary, Alberta, Canada is one of the largest cities in the country, even if it is "small potatoes" for a NYC public safety officer.

(2) I do agree with you that scanners, live streams, etc., don't cause as much harm to public safety operations as people think - in most cases. At the same time, irresponsible use of such resources (such as broadcasting the addresses of houses under search, or putting in the mainstream media what was essentially the dying words of a police officer) has indeed caused problems in the past.

(3) Delaying a stream is impractical for some uses. For example, I run an official feed which broadcasts a fire department. Besides members of the public in our area, some of our members who live outside the range of our radio system use the feed to determine if they should respond to the station for coverage. To put a 15-plus-minute delay on my feed would negate its purpose (and besides, the instances of firefighter safety being affected by live streams is nil compared to the miniscule amount that are legitimate police concerns).

The real solution, in my opinion, is to embrace the public nature of today's world. Communications of general patrol nature, fire and EMS response, and etc., should not be subject to censure or encryption. There should also be acceptance of the fact that there are millions of people out there who are going to see what's going on and text, tweet, post, and otherwise tell one another about the situation. This has been going on since time immemorial, but in this modern age, it's blindingly easy to do, that's all. Things which are truly of a sensitive nature and shouldn't be broadcast to the whole world should be handled on either encrypted channels or off the radio altogether (either on telephone or face-to-face). This includes medical and personal and other such information, movement of police and other law enforcement agents responding to a specific situation (i.e. drug interdiction unit, auto theft task force, or even just surveillance), and similar activities.

There's also been a recent article linked to here on RR illustrating just how poorly some agencies and entities work their secure communications. Some of it is poor systemic design, and some of it is, essentially, habitual behavior and laziness. That culture needs to change and people need to consider proper security of comms before saying something. I train my fire/rescue/EMS crews to not say something on a public channel that they wouldn't shout from the top of the truck with a megaphone, and if they have something truly private, take it off the radio. That kind of thinking is needed across the board.
 

IdleMonitor

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I think this pretty much sums it up. Jon Stewart Vs. CNN Terrible Boston Marathon Reporting || 720p HD || April 22 Daily Show - YouTube

I think some people are getting alittle crazy over this stuff... First of all, all the news networks are in a race to put out info on any major event, and they are reporting on what is coming across the scanners that they are listening to, the cops that give them info, as well as firefighters, paramedics and the people on the block..

George
 

kayn1n32008

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IdleMonitor said:
I think this pretty much sums it up. Jon Stewart Vs. CNN Terrible Boston Marathon Reporting || 720p HD || April 22 Daily Show - YouTube

I think some people are getting alittle crazy over this stuff... First of all, all the news networks are in a race to put out info on any major event, and they are reporting on what is coming across the scanners that they are listening to, the cops that give them info, as well as firefighters, paramedics and the people on the block..

George

That segment is so tewlling about the media in general. Too much of trying to full air time for the sake of being live. Watch 2 minutes of CNN
Or NBC or Fox and you could do something for 6 hours and come back to the exact same people saying the exact same thing... ****ty reporting.
 

MTS2000des

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, and by the way the XTS-5000 with encryption kills their batteries faster than the nonencrypted models. The non-encrypted models batteries last about 10hrs under "NYC USE" the encrypted versions last about 4hrs. which is why nobody uses it. When the police dont want something overheard they wont say it on the radio..That policy is cheaper and safer than trying to get out on an encrypted radio or worse yet, finding your battery dying.

George

what HOST/DSP/UCM version are their XTS5000's using? What algo? Because they must be ANCIENT if they are having these problems.

Our county uses XTS5000's with AES-256 UCM's, current HOST/DSP/UCM and they are on an Astro 25 V7.x simulcast DTRS- which means unlike NYPD which correct me if I'm wrong is CONVENTIONAL, their radios are tuned to a trunking CC and decoding OSW's and responding to affiliation requests and polls, and yet their officers get the same rated 8.5-10hrs of battery life in secure mode vs. clear.

So either your radios are way out of date s/w wise, or your batteries are shot.
 

gaburbano

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Remember cell band was locked out?

The major reason why scanners were prohibited from being able to receive the cell band was cause Newt Gingrich was caught cheating on his wife by a local scanner buff in florida. He was so pissed and got all the politicians up in arms about them also potentially getting caught talking with their mistresses on their newly introduced cell phones that they locked out the cell bands from all scanners and also prohibited them from being able to be modified.

Anyone remember that?
 
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