"Call you on the phone"

[ComradeGlock]

I was listening to my friends at NS on the Lehigh Line this morning (about MP 51) and to summarize, the crew was having trouble hearing the Dispatcher (this particular dispatcher is difficult to understand as he sounds way overmodulated) so they asked him to repeat, and his response was “never mind, I’ll call you on the phone”.

Now, I thought cell phones were strictly verboten in an active cab environment. Their (illegal) use was the genesis of the entire PTC project.

Did the PTC project bring with it cab mounted LTE radios that he might be referring to as “the phone”?

Is the crew issued cell phones for times when the Dispatcher can’t reach them otherwise?

Your thoughts?

 

[mwjones]

I was listening to my friends at NS on the Lehigh Line this morning (about MP 51) and to summarize, the crew was having trouble hearing the Dispatcher (this particular dispatcher is difficult to understand as he sounds way overmodulated) so they asked him to repeat, and his response was “never mind, I’ll call you on the phone”.

Now, I thought cell phones were strictly verboten in an active cab environment. Their (illegal) use was the genesis of the entire PTC project.

Did the PTC project bring with it cab mounted LTE radios that he might be referring to as “the phone”?

Is the crew issued cell phones for times when the Dispatcher can’t reach them otherwise?

Your thoughts?

Most of major areas have a pair of frequencies called the PBX frequencies. Using a handset and DTMF keypad on the cab radio, crews can (usually only while not moving) call the dispatcher, mechanical department and other departments within the railroad, or even call the crew cab to get an ETA. It allows for normal "telephone" like two-way communication instead of push-to-talk of the standard simplex channel (although most of the handsets still require "push to unmute" just to cut down on background noise over the air). This functionality has existed for many years, and pre-dates cell phones. All calls are recorded, so there's clearly no expectation of privacy, and with it being communal use, is generally limited to "official use only".

I don't know about NS, but for example in my hometown in Kansas, the cab on BNSF transmits on the AAR channel 92 (161.49) and will receive on channel 09 (160.245) when using the PBX (these channels vary depending on the region). Due to the nature of how it works, if you listen to the receive frequency (in my example 160.245) you will hear both sides of the conversation.

 

[ComradeGlock]

Must be PBX I suppose. I crawled all over the timetable I have (it's 9 years old though) and no mention of any PBX freq's, but then I looked in the RR DB and there is one PBX freq listed there, AAR 040, calling it "half duplex". (I had a boss one time that used to yell at us in half duplex: "I talk and you shut up and listen!")

Question though, if they can't be understood on the Road Channel, what difference is a PBX channel going to make?

 

[mwjones]

Must be PBX I suppose. I crawled all over the timetable I have (it's 9 years old though) and no mention of any PBX freq's, but then I looked in the RR DB and there is one PBX freq listed there, AAR 040, calling it "half duplex". (I had a boss one time that used to yell at us in half duplex: "I talk and you shut up and listen!")

Question though, if they can't be understood on the Road Channel, what difference is a PBX channel going to make?

Half Duplex may be the receive frequency (since that's usually on an antenna high on a tower compared to the antenna on the cab that's transmitting).

When using the radio on the regular road channels, they can either use the in-cab speaker and microphone that are on the radio, or they can pick up a handset (like an old-school telephone handset) to do "push to talk". It could be they were trying to listen over the speaker or it could be other outside interference on that channel.

Switching to the PBX forces them onto the handset with "push to unmute" and might not be subject to whatever the interference was on the road channel (which could also be something in the dispatcher's console, but from what I've seen of UP and BNSF dispatch consoles - and my personal experience with Continental Airlines ops centers consoles - the PBX and radio use the same headset, so I don't know how that would be different, unless the dispatcher actually picks up a handset as well).

 

[ComradeGlock]

I looked at other NS Divisions in the RR DB and they do list a second PBX channel, so I'm sure you're right.

Just been listening to these guys a long time and never heard a dispatcher say "I'll call you on the phone". It got my attention.

 

[crayon]

Switching to the PBX forces them onto the handset with "push to unmute" and might not be subject to whatever the interference was on the road channel (which could also be something in the dispatcher's console, but from what I've seen of UP and BNSF dispatch consoles - and my personal experience with Continental Airlines ops centers consoles - the PBX and radio use the same headset, so I don't know how that would be different, unless the dispatcher actually picks up a handset as well).

The crew has to use DTMF tones to connect, correct?

 

[ComradeGlock]

In NS's case, yes. To reach any online Dept., the crew must tone-up whomever they're trying to reach. Different schema than above, but the same end result.

 

[AK9R]

Now, I thought cell phones were strictly verboten in an active cab environment.

It was my understanding that cell phones may be used if the train is stopped. I could be wrong. And, it could be railroad-specific.

Their (illegal) use was the genesis of the entire PTC project.

The Chatsworth, California, collision between a Metrolink commuter train and a UP freight train in 2008 sparked Congress to pass legislation requiring PTC. The National Traffic Safety Board report on the accident blamed the Metrolink engineer for being distracted by text messages he was sending while on duty.

 

[ComradeGlock]

AK9R - you're correct, the FRA's rules allow that, and if nobody's on the ground and if the crew agrees that the use of phones doesn't represent a safety hazard.

 

[ComradeGlock]

Here's an FRA cheat sheet on the use of Electronic Devices.

 

[LGolder]

I can help here as a former NS conductor, we are issued devices that are used to track / log every piece of equipment that rolls out of the yard with you. It's basically a locked down cell phone. Yes that phone has a few numbers it's authorized to call, when it's safe to

 

[AK9R]

I can help here as a former NS conductor, we are issued devices that are used to track / log every piece of equipment that rolls out of the yard with you.

I won't bore the community with tales of how it was done in the late 1970s when I was a clerk for Conrail. Needless to say, providing conductors with access to that information using a handheld device was far beyond the realm of possibility. At that time, we were still using paper waybills, IBM cards, and printed train consists.

 

[Ubbe]

In those systems I know of that involves trains and trams it is crucial that all communications are recorded if an accident happens that needs to be investigated of what really was said prior to the incident. Giving orders by phone that are not connected to the recording system are absolutely forbidden. In those systems the whole T1 phone line at the dispatching center goes thru a digital recorder.

/Ubbe