Camden County TRS & SDS100/200 Scanner

[u2brent]

You are correct about what frequencies are authorized for each site, what may be confusing is that not every frequency that is licensed/authorized is actually used in most cases. I did study the FCC licenses that are listed, I think we've found one of those snafu's GTR mentioned

 

[nr2d]

Could just be a licensing SNAFU. Yes, ideally the licenses should reflect what frequencies are authorized at each site, but sometimes things get overlooked with licensing. Don't take what you see on the licenses as gospel, instead what matters is what is happening in the real world. Since the Lindenwold site is right smack in the center of the county, it seems like a fair assumption that the countywide cell is active at that site. That means all of the frequencies that are part of the cell, whether properly licensed or not, must be active at that site.

As was previously noted, a simulcast cell operates with all sites in the cell transmitting on the same set of frequencies throughout the entire cell.

I hope it's not a licensing SNAFU but I'm sure it happens. All I know is that when I received my 1st BCD536HP, on the day they were released, I had programmed in all of the system frequencies using Sentinel. I was having all kinds of problems receiving Camden County. I then found the licensing info on the RR database and just programmed in the frequencies listed for the Lindenwold site. I also had to turn on the 536HP's attenuator. And since then i have had no problems receiving Camden County. I'm using an outside antenna up about 30' on my tower. What ever works.

 

[u2brent]

Last word.

Adding all the frequencies on the license can cause issues, as has been previously posted, only the CC frequency is needed in the site for the scanner to work. By including frequencies that will never be a CC but also carries traffic of some/any sort the scanner may linger looking for the CC on that frequency, it could even just be interference. That prevents you from getting actual traffic in that duration.
All those issues are mitigated by only including the CC (and SCC's if it changes frequently, depending on the system)
If only the active CC is entered/programmed; then the scanner only looks at the appropriate frequency and moves along, instead of looking at 20 frequencies that just wastes the scanners time hunting for the real CC. This applies to all BCDx36HP's and SDS scanners.. Just saying, Your right. You can do it anyway you want. I prefer to help the scanner out by removing all but the CC frequencies on the systems I monitor.

Your method is appropriate for sure when a new system is being built and the info is not yet known.
The Camden P25 is not one of those.

 

[nr2d]

Last word.

Adding all the frequencies on the license can cause issues, as has been previously posted, only the CC frequency is needed in the site for the scanner to work. By including frequencies that will never be a CC but also carries traffic of some/any sort the scanner may linger looking for the CC on that frequency, it could even just be interference. That prevents you from getting actual traffic in that duration.
All those issues are mitigated by only including the CC (and SCC's if it changes frequently, depending on the system)
If only the active CC is entered/programmed; then the scanner only looks at the appropriate frequency and moves along, instead of looking at 20 frequencies that just wastes the scanners time hunting for the real CC. This applies to all BCDx36HP's and SDS scanners.. Just saying, Your right. You can do it anyway you want. I prefer to help the scanner out by removing all but the CC frequencies on the systems I monitor.

Your method is appropriate for sure when a new system is being built and the info is not yet known.
The Camden P25 is not one of those.

Does your system of programming just the control channels work on any trunk simulcast system? For example the NJSP in Berlin.

 

[jonwienke]

Does your system of programming just the control channels work on any trunk simulcast system? For example the NJSP in Berlin.

It will work on some P25 systems, but some P25 systems regularly rotate the control channel through all available frequencies, and if you only program one or two you frequencies on those systems, you will miss most traffic.

NXDN and DMR systems require all frequencies to be programmed.

 

[NParkNJ]

So for P25 systems,

Motorola requires only the primary control channel, and the 3 alternate control channels. The scanner can figure out the voice channel and switch to it automatically.

On Harris systems, however, every channel, all control, alternate, and voice channels must be programmed. Harris has the ability to use any channel(control or voice) as control, unlike Motorola.

 

[u2brent]

So for P25 systems,

Motorola requires only the primary control channel, and the 3 alternate control channels. The scanner can figure out the voice channel and switch to it automatically.

On Harris systems, however, every channel, all control, alternate, and voice channels must be programmed. Harris has the ability to use any channel(control or voice) as control, unlike Motorola.

All those issues are mitigated by only including the CC (and SCC's if it changes frequently, depending on the system)

Yes, only the Control Channel is needed for P25, Yes there are exceptions (Harris for one, but not voice channels not tagged as a possible SCC [determined by looking at the RR DB page and possibly based on results derived from an SDR solution)

Two examples,

PA-STARNet: Pennsylvania Statewide Radio Network Trunking System, Statewide, Pennsylvania

PA-STARNet: Pennsylvania Statewide Radio Network Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

First Responders Interoperable Radio System Team (FIRST) Trunking System, Various, Multi-State

First Responders Interoperable Radio System Team (FIRST) Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

for these systems the CC rarely changes and if it does it's generally for a very short duration. I don't even include the SCC's for that reason.

But I keep dual copies of each system in my FL's (One with all the frequencies [set to AVOID], and the copy with just the CC's is the active/enabled system) Just in case I encounter that occasion where it would switch.

These 2 systems need all the listed frequencies, even the RR DB does not indicate some of the possible CC's, this is learned through experience.

Lancaster County-Wide Communications (LCWC) Trunking System, Lancaster County, Pennsylvania

Lancaster County-Wide Communications (LCWC) Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

Chester County Emergency Services Trunking System, Chester County, Pennsylvania

Chester County Emergency Services Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

 

[nr2d]

I'm gathering from the latest is that programming the Control Channels will work only for P25 systems and not for systems like the New Jersey State police 800 MHz trunking system. BTW when I got back home last night I tried a FL on my SDS200 for the Camden County P25 system with just the control channels. It did seem to be working as compared to my BCD536HP with my previous programming that include the "voice" channels plus the control channels.

I guess I didn't realize all of the info that is transmitted on the control channels. I have a 4 day weekend and i will keep playing around. Like it was stated "keep it simple"!

 

[GTR8000]

I'm gathering from the latest is that programming the Control Channels will work only for P25 systems and not for systems like the New Jersey State police 800 MHz trunking system.

"Control Channel Only" scanning is a thing for both Motorola Type II systems, as well as P25 systems of any manufacturer. There are a few quirks here and there depending on the exact system and the scanner being used, but for the most part that generalized statement holds true.

 

[nr2d]

Well I am glad I got into this conversation. Not being real familiar with the workings of a trunk simulcast when I received my first BCD536HP I solved a problem with multiple sites by using the method I stated above, programming in just 1 site's frequencies. It worked so I did the same thing when I received my SDS200. After reading the discussions here in this thread and researching the RR WIKI I created 2 new Favorites Lists for both scanners for both Camden County and the New Jersey State police. I programmed in only the Control Channels and alternates as shown in the RR database. The results work great! In fact this seems to have solved a problem, appeared to both colcation de-sense, I had with the NJSP on my SDS200.

For Camden County I programmed in just the Control Channels for the Lindenwold site and for NJSP I programmed in just the Control Channels for the Berlin site. BTW I am just listening to the NJSP 800 MHz system. The re-programming of both systems is working great on both the BCD536HP and SDS200.

Thanks to all who helped this Old Fart still stuck in an analog world understand these new communications technologies. Thank God the FAA, where I work, stays with simple AM, ancient modulation, for aircraft comms.