That's my experience as well....
Casual train monitoring tips?
- Thread starter TonyMcN0BPA
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That's my experience as well....
Owner of DefectDetector.net here. You are correct that it is largely a one man band. I do have someone helping with maintaining the database now, but it is an immense project that gets a lot of attention. I work full time & then some in the railroad industry, and not many people have stepped up as willing to assist in database entry & maintenance, so it is what it is at this point. I could literally make this my full-time job and I would still need to hire additional employees to keep up with the volume of work.
Much of my effort as of late has been behind the scenes in implementing a new admin panel & tools to try to make all of this as painless & automated as possible. A general ‘Contact Us’ form gave way to a purpose built form that sent us an email, to a form that now puts this info directly into the database & alerts us to approve it. User roles are implemented for database admins, should I ever find anyone willing to help out. Corrections are the next thing to be fully merged into the database, after which I intend to explore the RadioReference API to obtain frequency information for improved accuracy & timely updates.
As to the sources of information, all of the information comes from railroads’ own employee timetables, which is THE definitive source for this information in the railroad’s document hierarchy. The problem is that these documents are only published so often, and changes are made via Bulletin Order in the meantime (new detectors, new radio channels, etc.). In the case of Norfolk Southern specifically, some timetables that are still considered current are approaching 10 years old now and have a myriad of changes via bulletin order by this time. Furthermore, Norfolk Southern restricts what Bulletin Orders an employee may view to just the territory they’re qualified on, so friends I have working there can’t possibly monitor the whole system for changes.
This brings us to the FCC License Database and railfan forums. While defect detectors are licensed transmitters, said licenses often include several different AAR channels from a pool that railroad uses, leaving you to guess which one it is. Railfan forums are among the worst sources, as they are notoriously filled with bad information or simply don’t have this missing information available at all.
In short, I’m trying…I’m always welcome to feedback & suggestions too, but everything takes time & resources. I haven’t had many qualms about paying for the site & related items out of pocket, but time is a commodity I just don’t have enough of. I’d love to be out recording more detectors myself, but I spend most of my “leisure time” working on the website instead because I know it’s more beneficial to the overall cause.
Anyway, back to my cave for now…
Much of my effort as of late has been behind the scenes in implementing a new admin panel & tools to try to make all of this as painless & automated as possible. A general ‘Contact Us’ form gave way to a purpose built form that sent us an email, to a form that now puts this info directly into the database & alerts us to approve it. User roles are implemented for database admins, should I ever find anyone willing to help out. Corrections are the next thing to be fully merged into the database, after which I intend to explore the RadioReference API to obtain frequency information for improved accuracy & timely updates.
As to the sources of information, all of the information comes from railroads’ own employee timetables, which is THE definitive source for this information in the railroad’s document hierarchy. The problem is that these documents are only published so often, and changes are made via Bulletin Order in the meantime (new detectors, new radio channels, etc.). In the case of Norfolk Southern specifically, some timetables that are still considered current are approaching 10 years old now and have a myriad of changes via bulletin order by this time. Furthermore, Norfolk Southern restricts what Bulletin Orders an employee may view to just the territory they’re qualified on, so friends I have working there can’t possibly monitor the whole system for changes.
This brings us to the FCC License Database and railfan forums. While defect detectors are licensed transmitters, said licenses often include several different AAR channels from a pool that railroad uses, leaving you to guess which one it is. Railfan forums are among the worst sources, as they are notoriously filled with bad information or simply don’t have this missing information available at all.
In short, I’m trying…I’m always welcome to feedback & suggestions too, but everything takes time & resources. I haven’t had many qualms about paying for the site & related items out of pocket, but time is a commodity I just don’t have enough of. I’d love to be out recording more detectors myself, but I spend most of my “leisure time” working on the website instead because I know it’s more beneficial to the overall cause.
Anyway, back to my cave for now…
Howdy Nick,
THANK YOU for taking the time to check in and update us. I really appreciate it, and I appreciate the effort. I hope I didn't give the wrong impression - that I (we) wasn't (aren't) appreciative of the site or the Herculean effort that goes in to it! Quite the opposite.
Having worked in IT for Fortune companies for over 30 years, I understand several aspects of what you're saying. Essentially any man-maintained (vis-a-vis automated) database is subject to error - regardless of intention (typo, ill-informed, etc., etc.).
Questions / Thoughts For You:
Please don't take any of this "personally" - even though I may say "you" - I mean, generally speaking, as a database admin or as "defectdetector.net" as a data source - NOT Nick Wilson personally.
Despite railfan forums being riddled with bad or no info, would you be willing to accept any defect detector data that folks sent you here - in this forum - as it was previously mentioned that there was no response or update to that user? I'm not saying that's the norm from defectdetector.net, just saying... Would that help or hurt your endeavors? Maybe attach a PDF or Contact form if that's "machine readable" on your end. -Or:- Do you only want data validated by fellow RR co-workers. Likely making a much more accurate but much smaller database of vetted data. Or a much larger and subsequently more error riddled database? Only you can answer. It's your "one man band" - so you call the tune.
This brings us to the great philosophical database argument / discussion - Is "bad data" better than "no data" - and how is the data consumed anyhow? In some cases bad data is really bad juju, in others not so much - but correct it once you're aware of it. In the case of defect detectors, I could make the argument either way... Afterall, of course you want accurate info / data. That's a given. That said, on the flip side, we're not making life saving decisions based on the data we see there. Someone plugs in the wrong freq because of someone else's old / bad / wrong data that got in to the database - well - big whoop! No one's gonna die. They hear nothing. Or they hear something other than a defect detector. In the big picture of "scanning", listening to defect detectors is a small niche. If someone wants to listen to a bad freq for 2 years before figuring out it's not accurate, then, well, that's not really YOUR fault is it?!
Edit: I accidentally hit a control key sequence that posted!!(?!)
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I was going to try to PM you the following but what the heck... ?
So... I'm retired... have a decent background in IT (though I'm not a DBA nor do I play one on TV or the internet!). Is there anything I (or others) can do to help you - monotonous data entry, etc.? Like maybe even an hour a week or something? I believe you mentioned you had a form that's now useful for getting data directly into the database (or to a queue for a human to vet) - but thought I'd ask.
In closing, I said Herculean effort... I meant HERCULEAN EFFORT - thanks again. Unfortunately tone of voice isn't transmitted in email / textual conversations - but know that you and your teams' efforts are greatly appreciated. I will continue to use your site as a source of info.
How can we help? Hint: I've got more time than money!
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I wonder if would be feasible to have a sub forum (if there is such a thing) strictly for defect detection - where freqs / locations could be posted and archived & cross checked by those interested? IDK...
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
Can't disagree...
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