CDF microwave network state wide map

[scottyhetzel]

~ Anyone have a map of the state microwave network ? I would love to see a Cali. Map similar to the CHP map that Harry produced. Maybe it's possible CDF co-mingles with CHP on their same masts / tower / repeaters. Possibly state parks share too. Any clarification would be awesome ....thank you in-advance.

 

[WayneH]

I know there's a PDF floating around with a map of the State MW network. I want to say it was related to CHPers but I can't recall. I'll dig it out when I'm on the computer that has it if no one else has it.

Also, all State agencies share the same site which is maintained by State DGS Telecom. Every once and a rare while there will be some smaller agency outside of a State vault. I've seen WRCB located in a co-lo when a State vault was nearby.

 

[norcalscan]

The short answer, there is no public version of the map to my knowledge. The medium answer - if you find maps of CESRS, OES Fire, or CLERS systems you can get an idea of the routing the microwave system takes, but I am not aware of "public" versions of those either. The long answer...

CalFire is simply a user among many on the state microwave network. The microwave system provides communications/data between ECC's, CHP dispatch, Caltrans offices, as well as supporting extended communications of agencies that have one dispatcher for a wide area, like CHP, Parks, and FishGame. etc. There are some radio systems such as CESRS that provides a VHF interface to the microwave system and allows dialing around to other CESRS transmitters or the internal green phone, allowing a VHF conversation between Crescent City and San Diego. County, State and Federal agencies all can use (subscribe to) the system.

State radio sites and state agency transmitter sites do not necessarily need to be on the microwave path. Many CalFire Units have the ECC in a location that can hit many/all of their local net repeaters directly. Many CalFire Local and Command Net repeaters are not on microwave sites, but in other smaller vaults, lookout towers, or leased from other entities (cellphone, local gov etc.) So a "map" of the network isn't really going to get you any intel on radio systems that FCC license locations can't better give you. For instance, Tehama County has 3 state microwave sites, Tuscan Buttes, Colby Mtn, and Vina Helitack. Tuscan has nearly everything, CHP, Parks, CalFire, Caltrans800, AirGuard etc. all in the same vault and tower. Colby only has CHP and possibly Caltrans 800, and Vina only has Caltrans 800, despite it being a CalFire helitack station. So a map of the system in Tehama only tells me 1 of 4 CalFire local net repeater locations in Tehama, none of the command net repeaters, no fish and game, and some caltrans. So the FCC is a much better source.

The system is managed by CalOES Public Safety Communications Office. DGS changed to PSCO when they got put under the California Technology Office years ago. And 10 days ago they moved from CTO to be part of CalOES. PSCO website

On that link under Radio Comm Division you'll find a PDF for the Capsnet strategic plan from 2011. Helps explain the system.

 

[ScannerDude244]

I have the chp site map not sure if all the microwave sites are on them

 

[MtnBiker2005]

Two maps with Microwave info from the 2010 PDF. This might help somewhat.

 

[northzone]

See page 62:

http://home.comcast.net/~tr1car1/System Enhancements Rev 04.3r4 - No Markups-Complete.pdf

 

[scottyhetzel]

The short answer, there is no public version of the map to my knowledge. The medium answer - if you find maps of CESRS, OES Fire, or CLERS systems you can get an idea of the routing the microwave system takes, but I am not aware of "public" versions of those either. The long answer...

CalFire is simply a user among many on the state microwave network. The microwave system provides communications/data between ECC's, CHP dispatch, Caltrans offices, as well as supporting extended communications of agencies that have one dispatcher for a wide area, like CHP, Parks, and FishGame. etc. There are some radio systems such as CESRS that provides a VHF interface to the microwave system and allows dialing around to other CESRS transmitters or the internal green phone, allowing a VHF conversation between Crescent City and San Diego. County, State and Federal agencies all can use (subscribe to) the system.

State radio sites and state agency transmitter sites do not necessarily need to be on the microwave path. Many CalFire Units have the ECC in a location that can hit many/all of their local net repeaters directly. Many CalFire Local and Command Net repeaters are not on microwave sites, but in other smaller vaults, lookout towers, or leased from other entities (cellphone, local gov etc.) So a "map" of the network isn't really going to get you any intel on radio systems that FCC license locations can't better give you. For instance, Tehama County has 3 state microwave sites, Tuscan Buttes, Colby Mtn, and Vina Helitack. Tuscan has nearly everything, CHP, Parks, CalFire, Caltrans800, AirGuard etc. all in the same vault and tower. Colby only has CHP and possibly Caltrans 800, and Vina only has Caltrans 800, despite it being a CalFire helitack station. So a map of the system in Tehama only tells me 1 of 4 CalFire local net repeater locations in Tehama, none of the command net repeaters, no fish and game, and some caltrans. So the FCC is a much better source.

The system is managed by CalOES Public Safety Communications Office. DGS changed to PSCO when they got put under the California Technology Office years ago. And 10 days ago they moved from CTO to be part of CalOES. PSCO website

On that link under Radio Comm Division you'll find a PDF for the Capsnet strategic plan from 2011. Helps explain the system.

Thanks NorCal ! Great info..

 

[scottyhetzel]

See page 62:

http://home.comcast.net/~tr1car1/System Enhancements Rev 04.3r4 - No Markups-Complete.pdf

That was some sweet reading...thanks for sharing north zone ! !

 

[WayneH]

See page 62:

Thanks. That's the one I was referring to, and incidentally is hosted by me.

As NorCalScan hints to, there are two (or more?) prime locations where a Raven audio switch is located. Sacramento is one and there's one down in SoCal. These switches - typically setup per customer by Raven - are controllable over the air by DTMF. These audio switches handle most of the major traffic so it's a simple inconvenience to tie audio paths together. Each audio path is assigned a code so through linking these codes you can "patch" repeaters together. You can also link from switch to switch. I used to work for a telecom who had a nationwide UHF system that used these Raven switches in geographic locations all throughout the US. All you had to do was punch in the code to get in to one, then the next and simply keying up on the repeater had you on the East Coast. Raven makes some pretty sophisticated stuff. I've got a book for the State somewhere that's got a lot of the codes and it can be pretty complicated with all the connections available.

 

[lbfd09]

I presume this is what CDF is talking about when they refer to the "Green Phone?"

 

[norcalscan]

I presume this is what CDF is talking about when they refer to the "Green Phone?"

CalFire "Green Phone" is an internal phone system to state agencies, which CalFire is a major user of for linking ECC's to each other and to air attack bases etc. So any dispatcher can directly link to any neighboring ECC dispatcher or air attack base. The green phone system is very elaborate and expands to many state agencies. In CalFire ECC's, it's a circuit on their CAD system radio monitor, just like every other radio channel available to them. In other agencies, it is usually an actual phone. The green phone can also be routed to the CESRS radio system so someone on a radio can dial into the green phone switch, or someone on green phone can pop out on any CESRS VHF repeater in the state.

I'm not sure if there's an open party line between air attack bases or what. When watching operations at Redding Air Attack Base, which is also physically right next to North Ops, there is a loudspeaker that is broadcasting something from the green phone circuit. It isn't just RAAB, you can hear various ECC's requesting aircraft, and other air attack bases replying etc. A long long time ago back in the golden radio days, there was even a radio rebroadcast it seemed of this traffic or similar traffic of air bases coordinating aircraft dispatch and availability, which was a huge treat while it lasted.

 

[lbfd09]

I remember hearing the green phone system while at the Holister CDF Station a good many years ago. It demonstrated the interacting of the different ECCs, Air Bases, and many of the op's going on, that they have happening in the background. Sounded bery much like an open party-line conversation, not unlike those phone bridges of today, that project managers use today, while administrating a big change over.

 

[norcalscan]

I remember hearing the green phone system while at the Holister CDF Station a good many years ago. It demonstrated the interacting of the different ECCs, Air Bases, and many of the op's going on, that they have happening in the background. Sounded bery much like an open party-line conversation, not unlike those phone bridges of today, that project managers use today, while administrating a big change over.

Yeah! I remember hanging out at the Redding Air Attack Base and hearing the coordinated chaos of that party line. At one point when listening something like 5 fires starting at once in Butte, Tehama and Shasta counties - covered by Chico and Redding Air Attack Bases. All three ECC's start coming up on circuit requesting aircraft. Air Bases reply and launch aircraft. Then 1 fire gets cancelled and another pops up and the coordinated effort of the ECC talking to the Air Base who is talking to the aircraft to get the in-flight divert and new orders given, plus the realization that more aircraft is needed and expanding the request to Grass Valley and Ukiah, who in turn launch their birds and join the party. Quite fun! As scanner listeners I'm sure we're more aware than others, but the dispatcher's job is a pretty intense and thankless job.

 

[norcalscan]

And that map in the back of the CHP Upgrade plan that Wayne has is the most updated Microwave map I've seen, including the reference to the digital backbone. The Redding hub is at CalFire SHU HQ in Redding, but with future plans to vacate that property and move HQ out to the North Ops complex at the Airport, the microwave hub would need to move also, changing the microwave path alignment for Tuscan, Hoadley, Sugarloaf and Bunchgrass Mtn. Quite the undertaking.

 

[scottyhetzel]

Thanks you

And that map in the back of the CHP Upgrade plan that Wayne has is the most updated Microwave map I've seen, including the reference to the digital backbone. The Redding hub is at CalFire SHU HQ in Redding, but with future plans to vacate that property and move HQ out to the North Ops complex at the Airport, the microwave hub would need to move also, changing the microwave path alignment for Tuscan, Hoadley, Sugarloaf and Bunchgrass Mtn. Quite the undertaking.

Thank you so much !

 

[digitaljim6]

The "green phone" (state's dial-operated private phone system) and the "intercoms" (multi-party fixed location bridges) are totally separate systems. My info is a little dated but here is what I remember:

The "intecoms" are the fixed location bridged circuits between unit HQs, ECCs, Region HQs, North and South Ops, etc. There were two intercoms - one between Region HQs and their ECCs/units plus air attack bases, and a second one between Sac HQ, Region HQs, north and south ops, and the air attack bases. The idea was that the local traffic wouldn't bother the statewide resource coordination between Sac HQ, Ops, Region HQs and the air bases. Most of the immediate resource needs were air support.

 

[smokeybehr]

The map in the CHPERS doc is just the public safety network. There's other segments of the network, and I've seen a big map of the whole thing. There's no real need to know where the microwave paths are, because you can assume that if there's a mountain with a radio tower and vault, there's probably a State radio in there somewhere.

Jim is right about the difference between the Green Phone system and the Intercom. The Intercom is what's called a "hoot and holler" system that is on all the time, and all someone has to do is pick up the handset and start talking. It mutes the console speaker, and unmutes the handset speaker and mic. Both the Intercoms and the Green Phone systems are a combination of 4-wire copper and microwave. It just depends on where all of the electronics are located.