Checking Interest For Mapping Out Systems On 450 & 460 MHz In The Twin Cities Metro Area

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JASII

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I am just wondering if anybody here has any interest on mapping out who is using what in the 450 and 460 MHz areas in the Twin Cities Metro area. More and more users are migrating to DMR systems and with more than one licensee on many frequencies, it can be a challenge to determine who is using what frequencies, in what mode, what Color Codes/Time Slots/Talkgroups/LCNs, etc.

As a side note, I recently got ProScan and it is pretty useful for performing unattended logging of activity. One of the things I did this morning was a sort of active frequencies heard by type. For example, Moto TRBO Capacity +, Moto TRBO Connect +, DMR Tier 3, Hytera XPT and Single-Channel DMR. Under each of those I sort the frequencies in ascending order grouped by DMR Color Code. I am finding that by using this layout, it is much easier to get a feel for who is using what and detect patterns, etc. For example, DMR Tier III seems to be used by only a few licensees on a handful of frequencies. Similarly, Hytera XPT has a small number of licensees. Connect Plus seems to be mainly Delta Airlines (800 MHz) and Alpha-Ancom. It seems like Motorola Capacity Plus and DMR single channel systems dominate.

Anyway, if anybody is interested in doing that sort of thing, let me know.

Or, in the alternative, I can always post frequencies, along with whatever other details I have, to see if others here can hear it and know who the user(s) are.

There are also some non-ARMER users on 800 MHz and some DMR and NXDN on VHF, as well, if that interests people.
 

bearcatrp

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Curious on your setup as I would like to do something like this in St. Cloud area. To far to help you down there. PM me if you prefer. Have never used proscan either so any tips you can share would be great. Hope you can post your findings if you do do the scan down there.
 

sonm10

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@bearcatrp Im not far from you. I use a Uniden SDS 200 mostly with Proscan. I also use DSD+ Fastlane to help verify what I find from the SDS. Im new to DSD+ and dont have it configured like it should be. The one difference is Uniden has a LCN finder while DSD+ gives an over-the-air channel number - the db calles it LSN.

@JASII Yah, me too. I would help out, just to far away
 

wogggieee

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I'd be up for helping with this. I'll have to get DSD+ working better first otherwise I can record chunks of spectrum from this corner of the metro for someone else to sift through.
 

JASII

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My first grouping is a sort of just Hytera XPT signals logged. The only Color Codes that I have logged for XPT near me are Color Code 3 and Color Code 4, so that is how this is sorted.

Coincidentally (or, not so coincidentally) the frequencies found for the Color Code 3 frequencies are Schmitty & Sons Bus Company. Here in the Radio Reference database, it just lists the two frequencies at the Minneapolis site, but it appears as if they have a Newport site, as well. I have no idea what 464.300 is for.

Hytera XPT

461.512500 CC 3 Schmitty & Sons Bus Company (Newport site)

464.000000 CC 3 Schmitty & Sons Bus Company (Newport site)

464.275000 CC 3 Schmitty & Sons Bus Company (Minneapolis site)

464.875000 CC 3 Schmitty & Sons Bus Company (Minneapolis site)

464.300000 CC 3 Unknown


I grouped the XPT hits with Color Code 4 together. It looks like PWC has at least three different active sites. I am uncertain about 461.7125 and 464.100.

461.125000 CC 4 Professional Wireless Communications
463.650000 CC 4 Professional Wireless Communications
463.800000 CC 4 Professional Wireless Communications

462.075000 CC 4 Professional Wireless Communications

462.375000 CC 4 Professional Wireless Communications
463.675000 CC 4 Professional Wireless Communications

461.712500 CC 4 Unknown

464.100000 CC 4 Unknown
 
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JASII

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I have only logged a handful of frequencies that are using DMR Tier III.





DT3

451.025000/1 CC 0 Dairyland Power Cooperative (Ellsworth WI)

451.075000 CC 0 Dairyland Power Cooperative

451.450000/2 CC 0 Dairyland power Cooperative

452.050000 CC 0 Dairyland Power Cooperative


461.550000/2 CC 2 First Student Inc (Arden Hills site)

464.437500/1 CC2 First Student Inc (Arden Hills site)

452.400000/2 CC 2 First Student Inc (Saint Louis Park site)

452.850000/2 CC 2 First Student Inc (Saint Louis Park site)

462.225000/2 CC2 First Student Inc (Saint Louis Park site)
 

stmills

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I am located just east of hw169&36th Ave N - In Crystal: monitoring 461.7125 and 464.100 I am not getting any hits. On 464.300 I am getting Cap+ CC5 UMN Parking single frequency system. Looking at Liceneses for these 3 I am not finding any obvious users- I know PWC sells Hytera systems, any other dealers? For some reason I am thinking I had heard one of the Refineries was going to Hytera- I did see Tesaro in St. Paul Park was licensed on 464.100?
The First Student sites are the Only TIII sites I have found from my area.
 

JASII

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Thank you very much for your reply. Knowing your location is helpful.

Looking back at the log, I think I/we can disregard both 461.7125 and 464.100.

On 464.300, I actually have lots of hits on Color Code 5 CAP+ and more on Color Code 3 XPT. It has been a while since I played to this extended with logging DMR. I just started using ProScan again, too. I am finding out that some certain frequencies will generate erroneous logging with the Uniden SDS100 and ProScan, as well as Butel ARC536Pro. I am at the point where I don't necessarily trust what is logged unless it shows both a Time Slot entry AND both Talkgroup ID, as well as Unit ID.

Professional Wireless Communications is the only dealer of Hytera that I am aware of in this area. Also noticed that the Newport site appears to have both Schmitty & Sons as well as PWC equipment. Assuming that PWC is the dealer for Schmitty & Sons, it would make sense to rent/lease tower space at the same location.

I remember logging a bunch of analog, conventional activity from the refineries several years back. I will look into them a bit further, too.




464.300000-120NFM6200:00:0512/09/20 11:45:0512/19/20 20:48:58Custom 8CAP
464.300000CC 5-120NFM2200:00:0112/19/20 20:48:5112/19/20 20:48:52Custom 6CAP
464.300000CC 3-120NFM12500:00:0112/09/20 13:52:2612/09/20 13:52:28Custom 8XPT
 

JASII

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Motorola Connect Plus that I have monitored..



460.950000 CC 9 Alpha-Ancom Connect Plus (Minneapolis site)

461.962500 CC 9 Alpha-Ancom Connect Plus

464.400000 CC 9 Alpha-Ancom Connect Plus (Minneapolis site)


854.812500 CC1 Delta Airlines

854.862500 CC 1 Delta Airlines

855.787500 CC1 Delta Airlines

856.787500 CC 1 Delta Airlines

857.287500 CC 1 Delta Airlines

857.312500 CC 1 Delta Airlines

858.287500 CC 1 Delta Airlines

858.787500 CC 1 Delta Airlines

859.287500 CC 1 Delta Airlines

859.287500 CC 1 Delta Airlines

859.787500 CC1 Delta Airlines

859.837500CC1 Delta Airlines

860.537500 CC 1 Delta Airlines

860.787500 CC 1 Delta Airlines
 

stmills

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I also have 460.9000 for CC9 ANCOM Alpha
Came across a few today that I am trying to identify
451.175 CC4
452.750 CC11
462.225 CC6 CAP+
 

JASII

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That is great to know about 460.900. I show no hits on it, but that is the risk of analyzing using the method I am using.

The other three haven't shown up for me...yet.
 

JASII

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Motorola Capacity Plus that I have monitored..


461.487500 CC 0


451.987500 CC 1 ISD 192 Farmington ?


461.525000 CC 1 Ancom (South)

461.850000 CC 1 Ancom (South)


462.500000 CC 6 (Either a one channel CAP+ or paired with a different Color Code.)


451.725000 CC 8

451.950000 CC 8

464.700000 CC 8


463.512500 CC 9


451.350000 CC 10 Methodist Hospital

451.887500 CC 10 Methodist Hospital

463.512500 CC10 Methodist Hospital

451.750000 CC 10

462.187500 CC 10

452.225000 CC 10


463.950000 CC 10 Ancom (Metro)

451.525000 CC 10 Ancom (Metro)

462.025000 CC 10 Ancom (Metro)

451.962500 CC 10 Ancom (Metro)


453.387500 CC 11 Minneapolis Special School District #1

453.487500 CC 11 Minneapolis Special School District #1

453.900000 CC 11 Minneapolis Special School District #1

460.025000 CC 11 Minneapolis Special School District #1

460.350000 CC 11 Minneapolis Special School District #1



462.275000 CC 11

463.800000 CC 11

463.950000 CC 11

464.200000 CC 11


451.400000 CC 12 CMG Minneapolis

461.200000 CC 12 CMG Minneapolis

461.275000 CC 12 CMG Minneapolis

461.325000 CC 12 CMG Minneapolis

464.350000 CC 12 CMG Minneapolis


461.350000 CC 13

463.387500 CC 13 Flint Hills Resources Pine Bend, LLC ?


451.700000 CC 14 Ancom (North)

452.075000 CC 14 Ancom (North)

463.225000 CC 14 Ancom (North)

464.950000 CC 14 Ancom (North)


464.175000 CC 14 ISD 196

464.975000 CC 14 ISD 196


463.712500 CC 15


856.987500 CC 1 3M?

860.212500 CC 1 3M?
 

JASII

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So, can anybody here identify who is using any of these frequencies? They all appear to be regular DMR (Not CAP+, CON+, XPT or DMRT3).

I have the logged Color Code listed and have sorted them by Color Code.


153.590000 CC 5

153.552500 CC 14


406.937500 CC 1

407.937500 CC 1

408.137500 CC 1

453.600000 CC 1

453.875000 CC 1

464.637500 CC 1


853.687500 CC 1


460.625000 CC 2


452.150000 CC 3

451.937500 CC 3

461.937500 CC 3

464.462500 CC 3

464.862500 CC 3


452.575000 CC 4


461.225000 CC 5

464.087500 CC 5


452.487500 CC 6

451.150000 CC 6

461.462500 CC 6


462.250000 CC 7

461.887500 CC 7

463.475000 CC 7


452.787500 CC 8

453.162500 CC 8

461.375000 CC 8

461.837500 CC 8

462.450000 CC 8


452.350000 CC 9

463.525000 CC 9

464.925000 CC 9


453.587500 CC 10

460.212500 CC 10

463.350000 CC 10

460.500000 CC 10


452.375000 CC 12


463.312500 CC 13


853.687500 CC 1
 

stmills

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ISD 625 - St. Paul Schools
CC10
453.5875
460.2125
460.5000

453.1625 is also licensed to St. Paul Schools
453.6000 Apple Valley DPW
453.8750 Eagan DPW
460.6250 Cottage Grove DPW
 

JASII

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Thank you for the reply.

Are the Saint Paul School channels for school busses or something else?
 

stmills

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Repeaters are for use in school buildings by staff. I haven’t heard traffic on them - not shocking since the schools have been closed since last spring.
 

JASII

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Steve or anybody else on here,

I am interested in finding out the LCNs of the various systems. Are you able to determine that on any of the CAP+ or other systems?

Jim
 

JASII

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I did an interesting experiment today. I programmed in 64 UHF frequencies that are used in Capacity Plus systems within my monitoring range. I configured my ProScan software to log them, but move on after 2 seconds. My goal was to find out how busy the various systems are and what talkgroups are being used.

After being gone about 10 hours, I returned home and checked the log. I was actually expecting more active talkgroups. In total, the hit count was 157 frequencies/talkgroups combinations. I was actually expecting more. Certainly with COVID-19 restrictions still in play, some systems are likely to have less traffic than normal. It probably won't surprise people here to know that some of the busiest Capacity Plus systems are the Ancom sites. A few frequencies were never logged as active at all in that period of time.
 
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