DSDPlus Choppy Decodes

[sunwave]

This might be due to the frequency error between tower sites. I measured the ppm correction of the RSP1a to be -1.083ppm referencing WWV time signal station. that probably is too low in frequency since the local P25 Phase II TDMA system is in the 850MHz range. I watch FMPP while it runs and notice some towers will be a little off frequency from each other. Some are on frequency while others are slightly to the left or right of each other. Very difficult to obtain accuracy to get the best possible decodes. DSD+ FL tries to compensate with it's auto-tuning feature something like A.F.C. Automatic Frequency Correction but by the time it even gets close enough the transmission is gone. Public safety officers do talk fast and briefly.

I am perhaps wanting to request the DSD+ FL team to take a deeper look into the SDR Play API to see what needs to be done to allow for frequency correction also allow the IF AGC to be used to keep from overloading the RSP ADC. In a strong signal environment full of simulcast signals I bet it will go into overload. There is no warning for this in DSD+ FL that I am aware of. Sure the IF AGC and LNA gains seems right but is it really? Haven't seen any updates in ages. It seems like a thing of history. Don't know why.

Sometimes it gets a clean decode then sometimes it doesn't. I am finding it difficult to set the right gain levels for my RSP1a. There are towers too close to have the gains set higher and there are towers that need a little more gain. Decode quality was much worse with RTL-SDR.

In the image is a signal in FMPP that is offset from where it should be. I tried to compensate with a 12.5khz bandwith but that fails.

 

[dave3825]

Gain is really high and bringing the noise floor way up. What is the antenna set up and how far is the tower in your screenshot?




This is my noise floor and it's at the first blue line. I use AFC and get pretty good clear decodes.

in the image is a signal in FMPP that is offset from where it should be. I tried to compensate with a 12.5khz bandwith but that fails.

It's going to fail as that's not what that function does. The signal is not centered. Adjusting the bandwidth will not center the signal. Only PPM adjustments will do that.

I measured the ppm correction of the RSP1a to be -1.083ppm referencing WWV time signal station. that probably is too low in frequency since the local P25 Phase II TDMA system is in the 850MHz range.

I would not use that or anything other than the freqs you are monitoring to obtain the proper PPM offset.

I would shut down everything. Then start just FMPP and tune to the control channel so your just looking at one signal that's not changing to voice freqs. Turn off AFC and adjust the PPM to where the signal is centered on the grey area. Then once centered, start DSDPlus and see how it sounds. If better but still a little choppy, then focus on FMPP window and hit "a" one time to toggle AFC on. Try setting the bandwidth to 9.5 ( see below)

If all is good, edit your startup file to reflect your desired PPM offset, bandwidth setting and gain setting.

I watch FMPP while it runs and notice some towers will be a little off frequency from each other. Some are on frequency while others are slightly to the left or right of each other.

I often see that while monitoring a site, I also see some freqs that appear stronger than others. Kinda sucks but with a good antenna and a good signal, it's not really creating any decode issues. On weaker systems tho, it does.



Bandwidth

12.5 kHz
lowest CPU usage
highest noise levels
will not block co-channel signals

9.5 kHz
P25: reduces noise; eliminates most co-channel interference
NXDN9600: should work well


7 kHz
NXDN9600: should work well; low noise
DMR: matched filter


4 kHz
NXDN4800: matched filter; will eliminate most co-channel interference
D-Star: matched filter
DMR: reduces noise, but will distort waveforms (DSD+ can handle it)

 

[sunwave]

I would shut down everything. Then start just FMPP and tune to the control channel so your just looking at one signal that's not changing to voice freqs. Turn off AFC and adjust the PPM to where the signal is centered on the grey area. Then once centered, start DSDPlus and see how it sounds. If better but still a little choppy, then focus on FMPP window and hit "a" one time to toggle AFC on. Try setting the bandwidth to 9.5 ( see below)

If all is good, edit your startup file to reflect your desired PPM offset, bandwidth setting and gain setting.

FMPP has no PPM correction.
FMPP 1.20

Usage:
FMPP [options] Normal operation
FMPP -h Show help

Options:
-i<num> SDRPlay device number (1-255) [-i1]
-o<num> Output audio device (1-255) [-o1]
-o<linkID> Output audio DSD+ Link ID (256-65535)
-oT<port> Output audio TCP port (256-65535)
-A<num> RSP2 antenna select (1-2) [-A1]
-N<num> Enable/disable RSP2 notch filters (0-1) [-N0]
-L<num> LNA gain (0-8) [-L8]
-M<num> IF gain (0-59) [-M30]
-T<num> Enable/disable RSP1a/RSP2 bias tee (0-1) [-T0]
-f<MHz> Initial tuned frequency [-f99.9]
-b<kHz> Initial filter bandwidth (4, 7.6, 9.5, 12.5, 22) [-b7]
-u<num> Enable/disable unlicensed spectrum display (0-1) [-u0]
-z<num> Show zoomed spectrum (0-1) [-z1]
-n<num> Select noise filter (0-2) [-n0]
-v<num> Set volume level (0-500) [-v100]
-s<num> Enable/disable scanner mode (0-1) [-s0]
-wsl<v>.<h> Spectrum window location [-wsl50.50]
-_<num> Minimize windows at startup; bitmapped
-rc Role is trunk control/rest channel monitor
-rv Role is trunk voice channel monitor

Active keys:
0-9 . Enter set frequency
[/] select step size
Cursor </> step frequency
Ctrl Csr </> step frequency by 250 Hz

U toggle unlicensed spectrum display mode
M toggle spectrum memory overlay
X reset spectrum memory
Z toggle spectrum zoom overlay
I select injection mode
b/B select bandpass filter
F select noise filter
Cursor ^/v adjust volume level
spacebar toggle muting

A toggle RSP2 antenna select
O toggle RSP2 notch filters
j/J adjust LNA gain
k/K adjust IF gain

R toggle raw I/Q and FM demod recording

S start scanner mode or exit hold mode
C start trunk control/rest channel following mode
V start trunk voice channel following mode

? list active keys
Esc exit scanner/CC/VC modes or exit program

Left click on spectrum: retune

and no way to turn off AFC.

 

[dave3825]

FMPP has no PPM correction.

Wow. I did not know that about FMPP. Just like FMPA which is why I cant use my Airspy. Its off about 0.9 to 1.1 ppm depending what part of spectrum I am in..

So if you start FMPP and park on a control channel with afc on, how far does it drift?

 

[sunwave]

Wow. I did not know that about FMPP. Just like FMPA which is why I cant use my Airspy. Its off about 0.9 to 1.1 ppm depending what part of spectrum I am in..

So if you start FMPP and park on a control channel with afc on, how far does it drift?

+1175hz off. needs ppm correction. That's not gonna happen. No option for ppm correction in FMPP.

 

[dave3825]

So if I did the math right, well, if I entered the right info into the calc, your dongle is off 1.3 @ 851 mhz?

 

[sunwave]

So if I did the math right, well, if I entered the right info into the calc, your dongle is off 1.3 @ 851 mhz?

RSP1a. not using a dongle. RSP1a casing is too big to be a dongle lol. Without a proper reference close enough to 850MHz band I wouldn't be able to confirm or deny. One could give me any number, but I wouldn't touch it not personally knowing the math.

 

[dave3825]

Dongle, receiver, still the same thing. Software Defined Radio.





Either way, PPM is off. Really sucks DSDPlus does not offer PPM adjustments. My mini is of and useless in FMPA.

Without a proper reference close enough to 850MHz band I wouldn't be able to confirm or deny. One could give me any number, but I wouldn't touch it not personally knowing the math.

Your pic shows 851.1875 and off 1175 hz. 851.1875 to hz is 851187500

851187500 plus 1175 = 851188675



So If I used this right, your device is off +1.38 and centered 1.38 ppm/1175 hz past the center of the freq.

 

[sunwave]

Dongle, receiver, still the same thing. Software Defined Radio.

View attachment 143797



Either way, PPM is off. Really sucks DSDPlus does not offer PPM adjustments. My mini is of and useless in FMPA.




Your pic shows 851.1875 and off 1175 hz. 851.1875 to hz is 851187500

851187500 plus 1175 = 851188675

View attachment 143800

So If I used this right, your device is off +1.38 and centered 1.38 ppm/1175 hz past the center of the freq.

I did a little experiment in SDRuno. I used the FM tuner meter to help me manually set ppm in .05 increments. Came up with -1.25ppm offset. That calculator should have notation for minus offset. This cannot be done in SDR Sharp because it doesn't support RSP's.

 

[dave3825]

I know you have DSDPlus FastLane, but have you tried SDRTrunk? I know it offers PPM on Airspy and it also supports RSP.

 

[wgbecks]

. Just like FMPA which is why I cant use my Airspy. Its off about 0.9 to 1.1 ppm depending what part of spectrum I am in..

Dave,

Although FMPA doesn’t support PPM (frequency) correction parameters, you can calibrate your Airspy devices to put then back on
frequency for use with (FMPA) DSDPlus. Download Latest unskinned SDR# build that is a link to the file sdrsharp-x86-noskin.zip
containing the AirspyCalibrate.exe application that is used to recalibrate your Airspy R2's and Mini's.

It takes some practice to get it down, but you can achieve accurate calibrations by simply tuning to stable P25 control channel
off air unless you have access to an accurate frequency standard. This is getting a bit off topic, but I have found that it's necessary
to run the calibration procedure several time to warm the SDR up to operating temperature to obtain best results.

Unfortunately, SDRPlay's answer is to use their SDRuno application that provides for user calibration. But, AFIK, there is not such
utility similar to Airspy's calibrate to compensate the RSP's.

Bill

 

[dave3825]

You quoted me but did not write anything.

 

[wgbecks]

You quoted me but did not write anything.

I am not sure way you didn't see my response that appears in Post # 11. Regardless, the screen capture below was taken from one of my
Airspy Mini's that was calibrated using the AirspyCalibrate program.

 

[dave3825]

Bill. I sent you a pm regarding the calibrate on the Airspy.

 

[sunwave]

I know you have DSDPlus FastLane, but have you tried SDRTrunk? I know it offers PPM on Airspy and it also supports RSP.


View attachment 144028

Yes, I already have SDRTrunk. I keep getting Idle on the Control Channel. I get alot of fade on talk group channels. The RSP1a can give SDRTrunk 10msps max. The system I monitor only needs almost half of that. (Oklahoma City Metro Public Safety Trunking System, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma) It shouldn't be doing that. I also would like to say that I prefer DSD+ FL because I can hold on a talkgroup then release the hold when needed. SDRTrunk doesn't give the user to hold or release the hold, unless it is undocumented in which I doubt.

 

[dave3825]

I keep getting Idle on the Control Channel.

Post a pick of the settings in the tuner tab with the rsp selected. Either PPM (which can be adjusted) is off or not enough gain.

 

[sunwave]

Post a pick of the settings in the tuner tab with the rsp selected. Either PPM (which can be adjusted) is off or not enough gain.

Keep in mind that it's the slow hours in the morning.

 

[sunwave]

Update:

I tracked the issue to a broken solder joint in the antenna magnet mount. I also noticed the brass fitting that supports the telescoping antenna also where the coax is soldered to was loose and rotating. That meant there was a weak and intermittent connection causing the fades and control channel drops out.

I have resoldered it together and thrown out the magnet mount housing. I could have bought JB Weld for it to fix it again but I just can't stand the fumes from that chemical. I taped the telescoping whip and coax really good on 3/4" wood dowel until I can locate a antenna replacement.

I also deleted the SDR Trunk user folder and rebuilt the system I am monitoring. That user data still had RTL-SDR values in it. It may not have mattered to begin with. Just wanted to make sure things are fresh with just the RSP1a and SDRTrunk.

Well 10 minutes later I just saw the control channel go IDLE, That could be a bug. @DSheirer will you look into it? Also, nearly 3GB of RAM in use. That is excessive. RSP1a "LO - IF" needs extra care. Seems like when it's LO is changed, IDLE drops control channel (multiple SYNC LOSS inidicated in Messages tab) and FADE's happen on groups. It recovers for a little bit then goes back into IDLE keeps repeating. RSP1a can handle up to 16 virtual receivers. Main virtual receiver handles the LO, the other 15 virtual receivers' slave with that LO. Probably rethink it's implementation into SDR Trunk?

WARNING: Using incubator modules: jdk.incubator.vector
2023-07-05 09:24:36.971 ERROR i.g.d.p.SystemProperties - SystemProperties - exception while creating app folder [settings] [13MB/126MB 11%]
java.nio.file.NoSuchFileException: C:\Users\ddejr\SDRTrunk\settings
at java.base/sun.nio.fs.WindowsException.translateToIOException(Unknown Source)
at java.base/sun.nio.fs.WindowsException.rethrowAsIOException(Unknown Source)
at java.base/sun.nio.fs.WindowsException.rethrowAsIOException(Unknown Source)
at java.base/sun.nio.fs.WindowsFileSystemProvider.createDirectory(Unknown Source)
at java.base/java.nio.file.Files.createDirectory(Unknown Source)
at io.github.dsheirer.properties.SystemProperties.getApplicationFolder(SystemProperties.java:147)
at io.github.dsheirer.icon.IconModel.getIconFolderPath(IconModel.java:261)
at io.github.dsheirer.icon.IconModel.getIconFilePath(IconModel.java:274)
at io.github.dsheirer.icon.IconModel.load(IconModel.java:374)
at io.github.dsheirer.icon.IconModel.<init>(IconModel.java:69)
at io.github.dsheirer.gui.SDRTrunk.<init>(SDRTrunk.java:120)
at io.github.dsheirer.gui.SDRTrunk.main(SDRTrunk.java:738)
2023-07-05 09:24:36.977 INFO i.g.d.icon.IconModel - loading icons file [C:\Users\ddejr\SDRTrunk\settings\icons.xml] [14MB/126MB 11%]
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2023-07-05 09:24:37.266 INFO i.g.d.log.ApplicationLog - **** sdrtrunk: a trunked radio and digital decoding application *** [6MB/126MB 5%]
2023-07-05 09:24:37.266 INFO i.g.d.log.ApplicationLog - **** website: GitHub - DSheirer/sdrtrunk: A cross-platform java application for decoding, monitoring, recording and streaming trunked mobile and related radio protocols using Software Defined Radios (SDR). Website: *** [6MB/126MB 5%]
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The system I monitor uses 3MHz total span of frequency. Oklahoma City Metro Public Safety Trunking System, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma

 

[dave3825]

I could have bought JB Weld for it to fix it again but I just can't stand the fumes from that chemical.

I do that stuff outside.

I also deleted the SDR Trunk user folder and rebuilt the system I am monitoring. That user data still had RTL-SDR values in it. It may not have mattered to begin with. Just wanted to make sure things are fresh with just the RSP1a and SDRTrunk.

My Sdrtrunk install is on my C drive and tuner settings are in C:\Users\Preferred Customer\SDRTrunk\configuration\tuner_configuration.json.

I had an issue a while back. I closed Sdrtrunk and unplugged all dongles, then opened the json file, made a back up, then deleted its contents. Connected my dongles and started the program.


If you choose to start fresh again, take note of where your install is and where your config files are and verify they are no longer present before reinstalling.