City of Dallas 700 MHz P25 TRS

[Russell]

Thanks for posting the update. I've been watching the applications almost daily, as well. With several of the sites already installed and connected, they are just waiting on the FCC licenses. How long does that take?

The City of Dallas 700 MHz system and the Dallas 700 MHz NCTCOG systems are actually two different systems. City of Dallas application adds Dawson and Frankford Rd as simulcast sites to Florina and 1000 mobiles. This application is also pending. The other City of Dallas application is for the license to the NCTCOG Dawson site. All of these applications are pending.

I am chomping at the bit to see these apps approved ... I can't wait to see these system go into full operation.

 

[jason51]

What will this system be used for? Is the FD going to it? Their UHF system works just fine. That would be a bad mistake for the PD/FD to go to this system. More of my tax dollars wasted in the city of Dallas.

 

[redhelmet13]

Somewhere I remember A state initiative pushing transition to digital by 2015. The COG's are all moving towards that goal. Analog needs to be put on the endangered species list... More and more incursion by digital modulation to accomdate narrowband requirements coming down the pipe.

 

[jason51]

I know of the narrowband requirement by 2013. Is there a digital requirement mandated by the FCC after that?

 

[radioman2001]

There is NO requirement to go digital until 2020. Even that's still not set in stone. Digital allows many things analog can't do, the main one I am sure is cheap high security encryption.

 

[Thunderbolt]

The city of Dallas has applied to the FCC, to request additional frequencies for mobile repeater and direct talkaround operations.

FCC Application

Yours truly,

Ron

 

[nd5y]

Those are the nationwide 700 MHz public safety low power/itinerant channels.

 

[jason51]

If there is no requirement set in stone about going digital, why are the radio shops ( DFW Communications) telling everyone that you have to be digital by 2013. They have told me that three times in the past few weeks and refused to sell me an analog repeater.

 

[nd5y]

Sounds to me like they are lying.
Read these.
NarrowbandingLaw
FCC Part 90 VHF UHF Radio Narrowbanding Info, Resources, & Compliance Updates - WirelessRadio.net
narrowband

 

[Russell]

I'm thinking the application is more in line with this document: http://apcointl.org/new/commcenter911/documents/APCO-NPSTC-ANS-1-104-1DraftPRC.pdf

 

[Russell]

I'm thinking the application is more in line with this document: http://apcointl.org/new/commcenter911/documents/APCO-NPSTC-ANS-1-104-1DraftPRC.pdf

Okay, I was wrong there. The app has nothing to do with the linked doc.

 

[dpdsgt]

700mhz radio cost

I'm not understanding something, there is an article link that says the implementation of this plan cost 2.9 million. I know the city of Milwaukee spent 17 million alone! you are telling me that Dallas,FW,Plano etc only cost 2.9 million? Just buying radios for dallas alone will probably run a couple hundred million. I don't see any grant mentioned for 200 million. The radios we have now are uhf not 700 so I assume we all need new radios. Where is this money coming from? the city can't afford it and I don't see any figures posted for buying new radios.

 

[redhelmet13]

I'm not understanding something, there is an article link that says the implementation of this plan cost 2.9 million. I know the city of Milwaukee spent 17 million alone! you are telling me that Dallas,FW,Plano etc only cost 2.9 million? Just buying radios for dallas alone will probably run a couple hundred million. I don't see any grant mentioned for 200 million. The radios we have now are uhf not 700 so I assume we all need new radios. Where is this money coming from? the city can't afford it and I don't see any figures posted for buying new radios.

Your assessment is on track. To equip the entire city with a 700 Mhz system would be very expensive and the current financial situation is dire. Hate to say this but everyone has to stop spending everyone elses money (especially since it aint there in the first place). Unless the city gets a megagrant or the NTICC can come up withthe funding, I dont see any major expansion of the small system now in the beginning phases.

 

[loumaag]

I'm not understanding something, there is an article link that says the implementation of this plan cost 2.9 million. I know the city of Milwaukee spent 17 million alone! you are telling me that Dallas,FW,Plano etc only cost 2.9 million? Just buying radios for dallas alone will probably run a couple hundred million. I don't see any grant mentioned for 200 million. The radios we have now are uhf not 700 so I assume we all need new radios. Where is this money coming from? the city can't afford it and I don't see any figures posted for buying new radios.

And

Your assessment is on track. To equip the entire city with a 700 Mhz system would be very expensive and the current financial situation is dire...

Yes, money is tight and I don't see any move in the immediate future for large city PDs in Texas making the move, but let's get the numbers within the realm of reality. The Dallas PD has about 4200 employees total, both commissioned and civilian. That really isn't that many folks and based on $200 milliion that would be $47,000+ per employee.

I am guessing that as time continues to march forward you will find some movement in that direction but first you will probably see inter-op done with permanent patches between all of the channels on the UHF system and established TGs on some yet to be implemented P25 system. This would allow for a slow transition to a digital trunked system.

 

[SCPD]

As I understand, The City of Dallas is planning to build a 700MHz P25 trunked radio system that would include Dallas Co. and some of the smaller cities who have not built nor have the money to build a trunked radio system. The Dallas system would also merge into Richardson, Carrolton and Irving and eventually Garland and Mesquite. It would also include Federal and State agencies. Discussions argue over complete encryption options and John Wiley Price nipping it before it begins. But the actual architectural plans are on the table. There are bonds and grants that will help pay for much of the construction as well as state monies. But the D/FW metroplex won't begin any radio transition or changes (Including Federal) until after the 2010 Superbowl. Its real, Dallas is seriously planning this radio system, But no one will really see much for about 2 to 4 years.

 

[IAmSixNine]

Discussions argue over complete encryption options and John Wiley Price nipping it before it begins.

Thank You Mr Price. I am all for interoperability, i dont care if its on UHF, 700/800 or if its analog or P25, as long as its in the clear and NOT encrypted then i am happy.
Heck i am also in favor of a regional system. Seeing a county wide system with most if not all entities in Dallas County on a single large system would be pretty impressive.

 

[Russell]

The current app adds Dawson (downtown) and Frankford Rd (North Dallas) to the Florina site to make up a city wide simulcast layer and the license states 1000 mobiles. However, with only 6 channels and 1000 mobiles, that doesn't seem like enough to equip and operate the entire PD/FD with mobiles and portables.

I am a fan of the UHF system and think UHF serves Dallas very well. Hoever, the system is very busy and doesn't have the bells and whistles many other agencies have. Perhaps they'll do what Washington DC did and use both UHF and 700 MHz for public safety operations. They have a UHF layer and an 800 MHz layer.

 

[SCPD]

I didn't say this ... But I believe what they are going to do initially is put deployment, Homicide, Narcotics, Tactical and 'Some' patrol (Specialized patrol) Battalion commanders and Arson investigators people like that on the system first, more less to test it yet give those divisions the citywide radio coverage they don't have on UHF. Of course this is only gossip amongst radio people, surely not the word of God.

unfortunately, future radio systems for public safety will operate more and more encrypted or using non-scanable protocols. The FCC recently declared P25 is outdated and obsolete and the FCC push for P25 will cease. The future of public safety radio looks to lean more to a CDMA subscriber type "Networked" radio system similar to European TETRA networks. So enjoy "in the clear" while it exists.

 

[letarotor]

The Encrypted Sky Isn't Falling Just Yet!

The plans may already be in place, but I don't believe we have to worry about a new countywide or areawide 700 P25 encrypted system in large scale use for a long while. I predict realistically, its at least decade away, if ever. Dallas citizens where left reeling this afternoon after learning their property taxes are going up 6.5% next year. And despite a tax increase City Hall still can't get their act together and tow the balanced budget line. Dallas PD is loosing a helicopter to the budget cuts next fiscal year, yet while I was listening to the counsel meeting this afternoon the counsel approved $100K for new plants in the median along Central Expressway. When Carraway asked about the same dead plants in the median along Highway 67 in south Dallas, he was treated like a whore in church. City Hall wouldn't dare ask the taxpayers to pony up for 100 million dollars in bonds needed to purchase new mobile and portable radios. Building pretty bridges (with 450' tall arches they can't keep properly lit) to no-where, renaming streets, expanding parks in flood zones, and beautifying medians and roadways is more important than a new radio system. It doesn't matter if you feel safe when you visit Dallas, they just want you to have the illusion you're in a beautiful place.

 

[SCPD]

The plans may already be in place, but I don't believe we have to worry about a new countywide or areawide 700 P25 encrypted system in large scale use for a long while. I predict realistically, its at least decade away, if ever. Dallas citizens where left reeling this afternoon after learning their property taxes are going up 6.5% next year. And despite a tax increase City Hall still can't get their act together and tow the balanced budget line. Dallas PD is loosing a helicopter to the budget cuts next fiscal year, yet while I was listening to the counsel meeting this afternoon the counsel approved $100K for new plants in the median along Central Expressway. When Carraway asked about the same dead plants in the median along Highway 67 in south Dallas, he was treated like a whore in church. City Hall wouldn't dare ask the taxpayers to pony up for 100 million dollars in bonds needed to purchase new mobile and portable radios. Building pretty bridges (with 450' tall arches they can't keep properly lit) to no-where, renaming streets, expanding parks in flood zones, and beautifying medians and roadways is more important than a new radio system. It doesn't matter if you feel safe when you visit Dallas, they just want you to have the illusion you're in a beautiful place.

LMFAO! Yeah, just don't have a breakdown on 75@Forest Ln. to both sides of the PRETTY freeway are Crack dealers galore!

But wait, What happened to the 500 Billion NEXTEL was to Pony up for Agencies to get off 860MHz and above? Didn't the City of Dallas get any of that?

Not to mention, where the money came from when Dallas went to the NEW Mobile computer system .... The Money is there, They are going to get a new radio system (at some point) it might become encrypted - But yeah, for now were all probably going to not see encrypted groups for some time to come .... Unless we live in McKinney or Richardson!