Completely new to radios, HELP!

[burntham113]

Hello forum,

First, let me apologize for what will undoubtedly be seen as some of the most obvious and simple questions you've ever seen, and for any misconceptions regarding terminology. I am a US Army veteran, ever since I touched my first SINCGARS in basic, I've been hooked on radios. I never got to play too much with them in the service, but now that I'm out, sorta, I can pursue this path a lot more freely.

After I left active duty, I enlisted in whats known as a State Defense Force. We're the National Guard's official state-run axillary, similar to the Coast Guard Auxiliary or the Civil Air Patrol. Anyways, I'm in a Forward Support Battalion, and they made me an RTO (Radio Telephone Operator), but beyond broadcasting in the clear, I don't know that much about radios. I know how to work a PRC-77 pretty good, and I know OF some of the newer features on the SINCGARS, like frequency hopping, etc, but not HOW to operate them.

That's my background in radio use. Most of my questions have to do with use in the private sector though. I'm also a security guard at a local mall, and the radio's they use are pretty crappy, Motorolas from like the 80s. I asked my supervisor, and he doesn't mind me using my own handheld, so I went out and bought one, a Quansheng TG-UV2. My mall uses a repeater, I looked the license up online and it says that there are two sets of repeater codes being used:


Output Input
464.80000 469.80000
463.45000 458.45000


I tried setting my radio on both the outputs, but heard nothing when I asked them to say something on the air, and likewise they could not hear me when I transmitted on the input frequency. I think it's possible that there using a CTCSS or a DSC (these are two of the most common basic security measures right?)

I asked around, apparently nobody messes with that stuff and couldn't confirm or deny my suspicions, it was all contracted to a company that went under about two years ago, they haven't had any problems with it, so they haven't spent the money to have a new company come and take over.

So my first question is, does it sound like this is a CTCSS or DSC? And if it is, are there any easy ways to figure out what it is? I went online and looked up a manual for the radios we use, it has a preset table of codes, and I was going to work down the list till I found one that worked, but that could take forever, so if there's an easier way, I'd love to hear it.

My second question is, how hard is it to get an FCC license, and to what extent can I legally operate this radio before I get one? How much money, etc, does it cost? What's Involved, and what differen't types are there? I've been using handhelds (kenwoods, motos, etc,) in the security field for years, and I'm thinking of joining the Auxiliary police as well, which is another reason I got the radio, and I've never heard of someone making all the guards go out and get a radio license.

Okay, last question, do any of you own the TG-UV2, and if so, could you help me learn all it's quirks? The Chinglish instructions weren't much help, or maybe it's just because I'm a novice.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[kb2vxa]

Since the system is from the 80s I doubt they use digital code squelch (it wasn't around then) so it's most likely tone squelch. A scanner with tone search tuned to the repeater output(s) will find it, almost always the input and output uses the same tone frequency. (What you posted aren't codes, they're radio frequencies.)

You don't need a license to operate the transceiver on the job, the company holds a blanket license that covers employees.

"Chinglish" instructions are never much help unless you can get past the weird terms, like they say it loses something in translation. You'll just have to be a bit more intuitive to figure it out, once you do you'll get a nice giggle.

 

[Russabbey]

RE: Completely new to radios.

Warren,
You need to get written permission from your boss to use those frequencies. With that said, lets start playing here. As someone new to radios in general may I suggest you get two books to start. Both of them are from the ARRL, American Radio Relay League | Ham Radio Association and Resources, what you want is the Technician and the hand book for amateur
radio. Below I have given you some web sites to look at for help in your area.
Input and output: what you want is to here the output which is the lower number in you example and the input is the higher one. So when you key the HT, you want to see it transmitting on the higher number and to listen it should show the lower one. Have I confused you yet? For you to get an Amateurs license, is a piece of cake! it's either 25 or 30 questions and that's it. However that does not give you the right to transmit on any band but the Amateur frequencies. Technically, you aren't supposed to transmit out of band, but in reality it's done a lot. Take a look below at the web address and visit them, you'll learn a lot from them and contact someone from the nearest club. They will be glad to help you. Good luck in your endeavors.

Russ Abbey
KG4MAV




Middletown Amateur Radio Club
Atlantic Highlands, NJ
Entry-Level License Classes, General Or Higher License Classes, Mentor, Packet Radio BBS
: HTTP://WWW.W2MAR.ORG/AbouttheClub.htm

OCEAN COUNTY ARES
Bayville, NJ


Jersey Coast DX Association
Bradley Beach, NJ

Entry-Level License Classes, General Or Higher License Classes, Hamfest, License Test Sessions, Mentor

nadxa.org


NORTH AMERICA DX ASSOCIATION
Bradley Beach, NJ
Entry-Level License Classes, General Or Higher License Classes, License Test Sessions
NADXA.ORG


Ar Comm Service Corp Of Monmou
Freehold, NJ
Packet Radio BBS, Repeater
Section:
monmouth-ares-races | Google Groups

Garden State ARA, Inc.
City:
Holmdel, NJ
Club Newsletter, Entry-Level License Classes, License Test Sessions, Packet Radio BBS
http://www.gardenstateara.org

Ocean Monmouth ARC
Oakhurst, NJ
Club Newsletter, Entry-Level License Classes, Hamfest, License Test Sessions, On-The-Air Bulletins, Repeater
Links:
OMARC, The Ocean-Monmouth Amateur Radio Club, Inc.

Jersey Shore ARS
Toms River, NJ
Club Newsletter, Entry-Level License Classes, Hamfest, License Test Sessions, On-The-Air Bulletins, Packet Radio BBS, Repeater
Welcome to the Jersey Shore Amateur Radio Society | Jersey Shore Amateur Radio Society

 

[davidgcet]

Since the system is from the 80s I doubt they use digital code squelch (it wasn't around then) so it's most likely tone squelch.

not true, there are plenty of Micor repeaters out there with DPL boards in them, as well as Moxy/Maxar/Maxar80 DPL capable radios. even the original R100 radius repeater coupld be ordered in either TPL or DPL(but not both).

 

[burntham113]

Thanks for all the great responses guys,

I'm still new, but I learn more and more each time I fiddle with my radio. I had another question I forgot to ask though:

I have Kenwood TK-3300, it was new in box, but it wont program correctly. Every time I turn it on, no matter what channel, it just puts out this continuous low, very annoying tone. The LED flashes orange and red, which according the the manual means the channel is not programmed and cant be used. So when I try to program the channel (push the PTT button, and the Side1 button) nothing happens at all. I've tried resetting it to the defaults, disarming a lock feature in case it was on, recoding the function of the keys, and no matter what, nothing ever happens. No matter what buttons I press in any combination, the only thing I see/hear when I turn the power on is that low tone and the Red/Orange LED.

Has anyone else here had this problem?

 

[Russabbey]

The TK-3300 is a commercial radio which means it is not designed t be programed from the front panel. You will need programing software for this radio, unfortunately it's not cheap either. There is another way around the programing, but I don't remember what it involved. I do remember it was way beyond my skills on a computer or in my head.

73
Russ Abbey
KG4MAV

 

[W2NJS]

Some late model radios, and the Chinese radio you have may be one of them, have the ability to search for the correct PL tone. The way it's usually done is to set the receiver to the frequency you want to listen on, then go to the screen where the PL codes are listed. Leave the radio in that position, set for any old PL code, and then push the key that makes the radio scan. If you're lucky you'll see the radio start stepping quickly through the PL tones until a signal comes on to the channel, at which point you should hear the transmission. You can then program the radio to respond to that PL tone only on that frequency. If you don't get a "hit" listening to PL, try setting the radio to any DCS setting and repeating the operation. The radio should find the correct DCS tone when the station comes on the air if the system is using DCS. Also, if you listen to those two lower frequency channels with the PL or DPL switched off you should hear something, that is if the system is still using those frequencies.

In the frequencies you listed I think you meant to write 468.45 rather than 458.45.


And also, just to correct something that was said above, it is not uncommon these days for repeater systems using PL to use different tones for transmit and receive. It's done for security reasons.

Try looking up your mall's license here on RR instead of the FCC. The RR listing may include the PL or DPL setting for the system.

 

[CalebATC]

Thanks for your service in the Army! Welcome to RR!

As said before, look for your mall in the Database tab, what your looking for may be right there. If so, click for the "Input" frequencies to be "Shown." Then, you should be able to change this, and everything work correctly. Also, a CTCSS or DCS may be required, put that in also, or, scan for it.

If the radios are just one of the ones that don't have any screen, and are turn on, turn off, talk, and squelch, you may not be able to get any information off of it. But if that's not the case, see if you can take the radio home, look it up online, and fiddle around with it until you find the correct settings. Out of your luck, it is probably the no interface version!

If you or anyone you know has a scanner, see if they can use Signal Stalker/Close Call to find the input and outputs.

Good luck!

 

[N8IAA]

Regardless of whether or not they use ctcss, or dcs, you would have heard them transmit on the input and output channels. Caleb's suggestion that you take a scanner and find out the correct frequencies and tones to use is a good one. Where I work, they use four frequencies and four different tones on the frequencies. Took the scanner, and found out what I needed to monitor the frequencies without interference from other users in the area. We can't help when all you have is western NY as your area. The only business frequencies I came up with in a search here on RR, were the Red Cross, a company that leases LTR, and some ambulance companies.
Larry

 

[burntham113]

I'm back!

Hey guys! So it's been about a year playing with my radio on and off, thought I could give you guys some updates. So I've learned a lot since last time, about the various bands (HF,VFH,UHF), stuff like CB, FRS, GMRS, and I finally have the DCS codes for my works repeater, which leads me to my next question.

I can hear everyone, and they can hear me, but my transmissions are coming in faint and with alot of static, as are all incoming frequencies, even local LE scanner channels. I've tried various antennas, and finally stuck with the stock one as it seems to work the best, but I'm still convinced there's a problem with the settings.

I know for a fact that I'm hitting the repeater at work. I'm transmitting on the repeaters input frequency, listening on it's output, and others CAN here me and I CAN hear them, but I might as well be transmitting from across the city, it's that weak. Here's the kicker; I'm transmitting at 5W while those Kenwoods I mentioned before barely hit 2W on a good day and they come in crisp! The repeater itself is only 5W believe it or not. I fiddled with the settings tonight and switched the Channels to Narrow Band (was Wide Band before), I'm almost certain it uses Narrow, so that should help a little.

The other options I seem to have control over are (Channel?) Step and "reverse". This is still using the Quansheng TG-UV2. Do you guys think this might be a problem with the squelch settings? I have it set to 7/9 right now.

I really appreciate any help you guys can give me!

 

[burntham113]

So they can hear me alot better now that I'm on Narrow Band, but I can only hear them about 50% of the time, which is still unacceptable for security work. Any Ideas?