Considering the 396, have questions
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scanvin
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update on my bcd396t and Tacoma
Thanks for the Tacoma file. I think I was confused in my previous post about ENC and LNK. Those indicate an encrypted communication which the 396 can't decipher.
I purchased the ARC396 software, which is a great way to learn how everything is setup to work with trunking systems. My scanner now does the basic of what I wanted it to do, so I can expand my knowledge and figure out some other things.
A couple of questions: in the Radio Reference database(http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=RR&sid=2501), it gives a 'CT' frequency of 116.3 at the top in the system profile. What is this? I thought control tone but that doesn't make sense, because there is a control channel C-Ch.
I understand ID Scan and ID Search concepts, but how do you identify talkgroups, and does ID Search reveal new frequencies you haven't programmed in to the scanner?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks for the Tacoma file. I think I was confused in my previous post about ENC and LNK. Those indicate an encrypted communication which the 396 can't decipher.
I purchased the ARC396 software, which is a great way to learn how everything is setup to work with trunking systems. My scanner now does the basic of what I wanted it to do, so I can expand my knowledge and figure out some other things.
A couple of questions: in the Radio Reference database(http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=RR&sid=2501), it gives a 'CT' frequency of 116.3 at the top in the system profile. What is this? I thought control tone but that doesn't make sense, because there is a control channel C-Ch.
I understand ID Scan and ID Search concepts, but how do you identify talkgroups, and does ID Search reveal new frequencies you haven't programmed in to the scanner?
Any help would be appreciated.
CT (not Connecticut)
It's 'connect tone'. There's a subaudible tone as a secondary way to confirm that the user radio has found the proper trunking system. Irrelevant to scanner setup.
The oddball numbers happen to be convenient to synthesize in the radio - synch to the 3600 baud control channel, and divide by an integer:
116.13 * 31 = 3600 (116.3 is commonly seen online, but probably a typo that propagated)
76.60 * 47 = 3600
83.72 * 43 = 3600
90.00 * 40 = 3600
97.30 * 37 = 3600
105.88 * 34 = 3600
128.57 * 28 = 3600
138.46 * 26 = 3600
It's 'connect tone'. There's a subaudible tone as a secondary way to confirm that the user radio has found the proper trunking system. Irrelevant to scanner setup.
The oddball numbers happen to be convenient to synthesize in the radio - synch to the 3600 baud control channel, and divide by an integer:
116.13 * 31 = 3600 (116.3 is commonly seen online, but probably a typo that propagated)
76.60 * 47 = 3600
83.72 * 43 = 3600
90.00 * 40 = 3600
97.30 * 37 = 3600
105.88 * 34 = 3600
128.57 * 28 = 3600
138.46 * 26 = 3600
oldsarge
Member
Programming Your 396
Looks to me like a couple people need to dig deep into ARC software's features that allow you to AUTOMATICALLY import trunked systems into your database and then upload to your scanner. It takes a bit of work and understanding and the printed documentation is a bit intimidating. However, there's a very helpful group on Yahoo that works wonders. It's called the BCD396T discussion group on Yahoo Groups. Join it and you will find a lot of answers to your questions. I'm no expert and I'm a bit confused about importing scan listings from Radioreference - regular VHF non trunked systems. But I'll get it down on of these days.
The Uniden software is ok but I think most users find the ARC software a lot better to use and less cluttered. Get a good case for your scanner too. Due to it's small size, it's very easy to drop or fall out of your pocket. While nylon cases are ok, leather cases are a lot better. I bought one from CE and it cost me $49. It's a very rugged stiff case and I don't like it, but it protects the scanner very well. Scanner Master sells a nice 'covert' style earphone that works well with the scanner. You can run the cable up your sleeve or inside a jacket or shirt and only have the upper part showing near your ear. With the scanner in your pocket, you are set to go. Invest in Radio Shack's 800Mhz antenna too. I've tried the one that comes with the 396 and the RS antenna and found the RS antenna to work better.
I'll be back up in my old stomping grounds May 22 for a week. I now live in Olathe, KS, but lived almost 20 years in Federal Way. Should have stayed put. My old house went up 100K in less than 3 years and we only owed 18K on it when we sold it. Damnit. SO, I'll be in the market for the latest frequencies as well. I had a huge scan list that I sent to some people that requested it, and sent it to them via mail at my cost. I don't know if it's still a valid list but I'm going to put it up on my website soon for downloading.
Take care all of you web footed creatures in rainland. I sincerely do miss Puget Sound.
I can stand on a tuna can here and see all the way to Denver. I miss the trees, mountains, and believe it or not, nice drivers on the freeway. The people here drive like hell.
The Sarge
scanvin said:
Looks to me like a couple people need to dig deep into ARC software's features that allow you to AUTOMATICALLY import trunked systems into your database and then upload to your scanner. It takes a bit of work and understanding and the printed documentation is a bit intimidating. However, there's a very helpful group on Yahoo that works wonders. It's called the BCD396T discussion group on Yahoo Groups. Join it and you will find a lot of answers to your questions. I'm no expert and I'm a bit confused about importing scan listings from Radioreference - regular VHF non trunked systems. But I'll get it down on of these days.
The Uniden software is ok but I think most users find the ARC software a lot better to use and less cluttered. Get a good case for your scanner too. Due to it's small size, it's very easy to drop or fall out of your pocket. While nylon cases are ok, leather cases are a lot better. I bought one from CE and it cost me $49. It's a very rugged stiff case and I don't like it, but it protects the scanner very well. Scanner Master sells a nice 'covert' style earphone that works well with the scanner. You can run the cable up your sleeve or inside a jacket or shirt and only have the upper part showing near your ear. With the scanner in your pocket, you are set to go. Invest in Radio Shack's 800Mhz antenna too. I've tried the one that comes with the 396 and the RS antenna and found the RS antenna to work better.
I'll be back up in my old stomping grounds May 22 for a week. I now live in Olathe, KS, but lived almost 20 years in Federal Way. Should have stayed put. My old house went up 100K in less than 3 years and we only owed 18K on it when we sold it. Damnit. SO, I'll be in the market for the latest frequencies as well. I had a huge scan list that I sent to some people that requested it, and sent it to them via mail at my cost. I don't know if it's still a valid list but I'm going to put it up on my website soon for downloading.
Take care all of you web footed creatures in rainland. I sincerely do miss Puget Sound.
I can stand on a tuna can here and see all the way to Denver. I miss the trees, mountains, and believe it or not, nice drivers on the freeway. The people here drive like hell. The Sarge
olowy
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scanvin said:
ID Search will reveal talk groups not programmed in, but not new frequencies. You id the talkgroups by either matching the number to a list, or just listening enough that you can make a judgment call (I finally figured out the talkgroup for McChordFire/Aid, but there are a bunch I still cant make heads or tails of).
I work on McChord and have found 32 talkgroups and several more frequencies than what are listed here. Of the 32 talkgroup IDs I’ve found, I have positively identified about half of them. Most of the rest I’m still working on and have a pretty good idea, just listening for more confirmation. A few I have no ideas about. Two of the IDs are completely out of what I would consider a normal TGID should be, specifically 16816 and 16818, both stopped the scan but didn’t transmit any audio.
43224 popped up today and was apparently encrypted.
43224 popped up today and was apparently encrypted.
olowy
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Have you come across TGID 46000 and able to ID it?
Also let me know if you monitor Ft Lewis on the 300mhz. I am still having trouble monitoring it. I know Chris P had some success and I have tried to make some of his suggested chnages like playing with P25 level but it does not seem to work. I am trying to figure it out if it is a range issue or an issue with my scanner.
Also let me know if you monitor Ft Lewis on the 300mhz. I am still having trouble monitoring it. I know Chris P had some success and I have tried to make some of his suggested chnages like playing with P25 level but it does not seem to work. I am trying to figure it out if it is a range issue or an issue with my scanner.
olowy said:
46000 appears to be CATM, hey handle firearms and munitions on the base. I'm not convinced of this because of the amount of traffic I’m hearing on that ID. They really don't move the guns around so much. I did hear one new ID with the call sign, Cascade Ops, which is Command Post. CP uses 349.4 to talk to the aircrews, but this is to allow comms on the ground.
Airlift Rodeo is coming up; I expect to hear a bunch of new talkgroups during that.
Ok, disregard my last. I didn’t have my notes in front of me when I wrote that.
43376 is what I believe to be CATM, using the call signs ‘Dragon’ and ‘Ammo’.
46000 I believe to be Munitions Maintenance. They test and repair the aircraft defensive systems (flares dispensing systems).
41008 is Command Post using the call sign ‘Cascade Ops’ – very infrequent use
42192 is the fire/crash net
I’m still working on about a dozen others.
43376 is what I believe to be CATM, using the call signs ‘Dragon’ and ‘Ammo’.
46000 I believe to be Munitions Maintenance. They test and repair the aircraft defensive systems (flares dispensing systems).
41008 is Command Post using the call sign ‘Cascade Ops’ – very infrequent use
42192 is the fire/crash net
I’m still working on about a dozen others.
FFSOD7189
Retired Fire Lieutenant
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Fort Lewis Fire
So who is monitoring Fort Lewis Fire? They are a busy Fire Dept. with 5 Stations and the Primary Fire Dept. for Dupont. I know Dupont has its own Dept. When Fort Lewis responds to a Dupont fire you are lucky to get a staffed Dupont Engine. So you get 2 Fort Lewis Engines and something from Dupont.
Also they cover 15 Miles of I-5 North & South.
So who is monitoring Fort Lewis Fire? They are a busy Fire Dept. with 5 Stations and the Primary Fire Dept. for Dupont. I know Dupont has its own Dept. When Fort Lewis responds to a Dupont fire you are lucky to get a staffed Dupont Engine. So you get 2 Fort Lewis Engines and something from Dupont.
Also they cover 15 Miles of I-5 North & South.
SkipSanders
Silent Key
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Mainsail said:
16816 is a valid talkgroup. (If you can divide a talkgroup number you see displayed by 16, and it's an even multiple, it's valid for a Motorola smartnet)
15818 is actually the same talkgroup, with a status bit set, in this case, bit 2, which says that the talkgroup is currently in 'emergency' status.
The status bits work like this:
Status Bits
Type II Smartnet systems uses status bits for special transmissions such as Emergency, Patches, DES/DVP scrambled transmissions, and Multiselects on Motorola Trunking systems. Motorola Trunking radios directly interpret them for their special functions, thus no difference is noticed by the person with the radio. The Trunktracker scanners however interpret these special talkgroup status bits as different talkgroups entirely. Below is the conversion chart for these special status bits.
Dec ID + # Usage
-------------------------------------------------------
ID+0 Normal Talkgroup
ID+1 All Talkgroup
ID+2 Emergency
ID+3 Talkgroup patch to another
ID+4 Emergency Patch
ID+5 Emergency multi-group
ID+6 Not assigned
ID+7 Multi-select (initiated by dispatcher)
ID+8 DES Encryption talkgroup
ID+9 DES All Talkgroup
ID+10 DES Emergency
ID+11 DES Talkgroup patch
ID+12 DES Emergency Patch
ID+13 DES Emergency multi-group
ID+14 Not assigned
ID+15 Multi-select DES TG
Just a bit of explanation, 'patched' means the system has tied together two or more talkgroups, anything said on any of them will come out on all. Patching is used when units on several talkgroups must be able to hear and talk to each other.
'Multi-select' is similar, but not quite. Multi means the dispatcher has selected several groups at once to talk out on, but what's said by units on one of the talkgroups will be heard only by the dispatcher and the other units on that talkgroup. Multi is often used for things like Fire Dispatching, where the department wants the dispatch heard on 1)The actual dispatch channel 2)Some admin channel where the big fellas can hear them without then having to listen to the followup traffic, and 3) Maybe some alternate channel they also want to know about dispatches as they occur.
Normally you should have your scanner set to ignore status bits, and it'll then report only the base group number, not the 'status bit enhanced' numbers. If you set the scanner to not ignore status bits, and you want to monitor only selected talk groups, you'll have to enter each seperate status bit modified number as a seperate talk group, as it'll only stop in talkgroup scan mode on group numbers you've actually entered.
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olowy
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Mainsail said:
I think 43312 is Aircraft Maintance Silver team. 41232 I thought might be related to dispatching busses to pickup crews, but if memorty serves me right there is other chatter on it as well. I also IDed 42192 after one of their exercises.
I also have picked up TGIDs that seem "outside the norm" of 4xxxx such as 58064, 59872, 12527, 35056, 64899, 65281.
Here's my notes so far:olowy said:
ID NAME Call Sign(s)
16816 ?
16818 ?
41008 COMMAND POST CASCADES OPS
41040 VOICE USER UNKNOWN sometimes encrypted
41048
41168 COMMAND POST?
41200 Appears to be exercise coordination HALO CALL SIGN
41232 ATOC
41264 BATTLEAXE? Penguin Cash Joker Panther
41272 ?
41296 EET Net XP call sign
41488 Munitions? Police Alternate?
41552 SECURITY POLICE
41744 TOWER/GROUND CONTROL NET
41808 CIVIL ENGINEERS
42064 FUELS
42128 AIRCREW TRANSPORTATION
42192 FIRE - CRASH NET
42224 Voice Decon? Tender
42256 COMMAND?
42320 CIVIL ENGINEERS, ELECTRICAL
42328 Encrypted?
42384 EOD Call Sign Crash?
42416 NAV AID MAINT NAV 1 call sign
42448 Telephone Maintenance Call sign Wire
42450 ? Stopped but no audio
42544 CE?
42992 NCC
43000 Encrypted?
43216 BLACKJACK or MIKE BASE MAINT SUPPORT
43218
43224 Encrypted?
43248 BLUE MAINT
43280 SABER LEAD PRO-SUPERVISOR
43312 SILVER MAINT
43344 MAINT - AIRCRAFT TOW
43376 CATM AMMO - DRAGON CALL SIGNs
45104 Voice Bulldog
45552 SOAP Call Sign HuskyDog
46000 MUNITIONS MAINT?
41520 ?
58064 Airevac Control Misty
45168 Voice
olowy
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Mainsail said:
Here are the status bits you are picking up and why so many of those are encrypted:
41272 - 41264+8 DES Encryption talkgroup
42328 - 42320+8 DES Encryption talkgroup
42450 - 42448+2 Emergency
43000 - 42992+8 DES Encryption talkgroup
43218 - 43216+2 Emergency
43224 - 43216+8 DES Encryption talkgroup
olowy
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http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Motorola_Type_II has an explanition.
The best that I have figured out is that depending on how some transmits a TGID on a type II system, a TGID can have multiple numbers. So for example, any group that is send enrcypted will be +8 from its original number, and etc.. I am still trying to figure out how often you need to program all the different tgids to properly hear it.
The best that I have figured out is that depending on how some transmits a TGID on a type II system, a TGID can have multiple numbers. So for example, any group that is send enrcypted will be +8 from its original number, and etc.. I am still trying to figure out how often you need to program all the different tgids to properly hear it.
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