Conventional Priority Scan 996XT

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MesquiteWx

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Is it possible to scan a conventional system in priority mode similar to the preemptive priority feature that works on Motorola systems? I have mostly conventional systems and only 1 mot system. I have it setup to do Priority ID Scan and it works great as it scans priority channels in the background then interrupts if there is traffic on the set priority channels. But for conventional systems you can't do priority scan without it cutting in and out of current traffic as it scans for priority traffic. Am I missing something here or is that correct? Is it possible to priority scan conventional channels in the background without it cutting in and out of traffic on non-priority channels and cut in if there is priority traffic?

-Thanks
 

Ronaldski

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Not it does not, on digital it can analyze the digital signal and look at the talkgroups you set for priority in the background. Analog has priority that will do as you say about the audio gaps and priority plus that will only listen for analog frequencies set to priority. You can expand out the number of seconds priority checks to help lessen the audio gaps.
http://marksscanners.com/996xt/996xt.shtml# channel priority

To Edit Priority Scan Options press MENU. Scroll to 'Priority Scan' and press E

Set Interval sets how often the scanner will check the priority channels.

Scroll to 'Set Interval' and press E/.
Enter the number of seconds (1-10) and press E/ to save and exit.
.
 
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MesquiteWx

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Thanks, I had already read that previously. It's just not real clear on how the actual function is suppose to work. I am using FreeScan to program the scanner. This is a great scanner and I love it. I just think for $500 this is a major fundamental flaw of this unit not being able to scan normally and have it scan priority channels in the background on a conventional system like you can do with trunked systems.
 

UPMan

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To check a conventional channel for the priority function, the scanner must stop receiving the current comm and go check the priority channel(s) to see if there is activity. This results in a break in hearing whatever you were monitoring. That said, we implemented Priority DND on our most recent scanners (BC75XLT, BC125AT) which waits until a comm ends to do the priority check. The tradeoff is fewer checks of the priority channels (especially when scanning active channels) but no annoying break in the comms. This is a quite recent innovation that we have made, and I would expect the feature to be in any future products, as well. The current operation (breaking the audio) is how scanners have handled priority for the past 25 years or so.
 

MesquiteWx

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The current operation (breaking the audio) is how scanners have handled priority for the past 25 years or so.

Are you referring to interrupting to do checks or breaking traffic to allow the priority channel traffic?

I have a RS scanner that is old that scans priority channels in the background and then breaks the current traffic if one of those priority channels has traffic. It doesn't wait for the current transmission to end and It doesn't interrupt to check the priority channels. Regardless if it's conventional of trunk system.

The preemptive priority scan works only on trunked and P25 systems and it works well IF the current transmission is from a trunked or P-25 system. If I am receiving traffic from a conventional system the preemptive priority won't break in from a priority channel on trunked or P25 system. The preemptive priority only works if the current traffic is from a trunked or P25 transmission. So if you have a mixed bag of systems the preemptive priority is worthless. This is just what I have observed over the past few days. I may not have something set correctly which is possible but, I spent two days researching this and trying different things.

Another thing I have noticed is if I set a talkgroup as priority on a conventional system but don't turn on Priority scan or Priority scan + it will scan the priority channels in background and break the current transmission if one of those priority channels has traffic without it interrupting to check. Then again this takes precedents over preemptive priority if a trunked or P25 system has traffic on a priority talkgroup. The preemptive priority channels you'll never hear since the current transmission is from conventional system.

It would be nice and you would think it wouldn't be that much of a challenge on such a great unit with all the technology today for it to scan priority channels in the background and break current transmission if a priority channel has traffic. I mean after all, isn't that what priority means? It should have priority over any traffic. If it waits till the current transmission is done the priority traffic transmission may already be done or you miss half of it. So it's not really priority in the sense Uniden has it set up. The preemptive priority feature is great. If it could work that way across any system then this would be a very solid unit. I just think the priority feature lacks some basic fundamentals for this day and age with all the technology that is available.
 

UPMan

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There is no way to scan "in the background" while receiving another transmission on a conventional (i.e. non-trunked) channel. When it is receiving a transmission, the scanner's RF is tuned to that frequency. To check any other frequency for radio traffic, the scanner must retune the RF to the frequency to check, and when it does that it will stop being tuned to the original traffic...and you hear a break while that happens.

Not sure what RS scanner you had, but 25 years ago, I was doing scanners at RS, and none of the scanners back then can do what you describe.

It is able to do it on certain trunked systems because some channel traffic data is included on the voice channel, so the scanner can pick up that information from the same RF frequency it is currently tuned to.

Not sure what your 4th paragraph means. Talkgroups are by definition on trunked systems, but you refer to it as being associated with a conventional system. What you mean probably makes sense, but what you wrote I'm having trouble following. Maybe I need another cup of coffee...

No way to do what you really want to do without having two complete RF sections (i.e. two $canner$ in one cabinet).
 

MesquiteWx

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There is no way to scan "in the background" while receiving another transmission on a conventional (i.e. non-trunked) channel. When it is receiving a transmission, the scanner's RF is tuned to that frequency. To check any other frequency for radio traffic, the scanner must retune the RF to the frequency to check, and when it does that it will stop being tuned to the original traffic...and you hear a break while that happens.

I hear what you're saying and I understand all that and it makes perfect sense. I am just saying this could be improved on greatly as it can be scanned in the background. Every conventional frequency is stored in an internal bank. So in the firmware it can be programmed to follow certain rules. As it shouldn't be listening for traffic or open squelch, it should be checking for open circuit instead on a certain bank and if that bank is set to priority and it's circuit is open then close the current bank if not a priority channel and open the priority channel for transmission.

scan => if priority => close non priority => open priority => else => continue scanning

As it is now it's listening for traffic when it can be done in the background via an open and closed banked. Multi task wouldn't be something I would think would be hard to implement as it's done in all kinds of devices these days. So basically instead of listening it's looking for a open or close bank and if it's set to priority.

Not sure what RS scanner you had, but 25 years ago, I was doing scanners at RS, and none of the scanners back then can do what you describe.

It's a Pro-95 and I promise it does this. I wish there was a way I could take a video to demonstrate this. I could probably make one with Wx Priority even though there isn't any severe weather. Even on the 996XT it interrupts when Wx Priority is on on the Pro-95 it doesn't.

Not sure what your 4th paragraph means. Talkgroups are by definition on trunked systems, but you refer to it as being associated with a conventional system. What you mean probably makes sense, but what you wrote I'm having trouble following. Maybe I need another cup of coffee...

I probably missed worded that. I meant groups, not really talk groups persay. Like on my conventional systems I have them broken down into groups. For example one system is called Balch Springs. I have groups, one for PD and one for Fire. If I set all the fire freq to priority in that group but don't turn on Priority or Priority + scan and one of those priority freq receives traffic it will automatically switch to that priority channel within that conventional system regardless of the current traffic and without interrupting to check for traffic. It even shows P on the screen to indicate it's a priority channel. BUT if there is conventional traffic regardless if it's priority or not, preemptive priority scan for the trunk or P25 system won't break in if it detects a priority channel. If will only do preemptive priority IF the current traffic is from a trunk or P25 system. That just seems like a fundamental flaw. That all goes back to detecting open closed banks. If it has to listen for traffic it should be able to do that in the background without it interrupting current non-priority traffic.

I may not have it set up correctly or missing something but that is how I have observed it for the past few days. I guess I need to try to find a way to make a video to demo this behavior as I know it's a little hard to explain it without proof.
 

UPMan

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Again, your examples are impossible. If it is receiving a channel, it cannot also be scanning in the background without a 2nd receiver. There is no way for the scanner to know that there is traffic on a priority channel without actually tuning to that frequency. Not sure what "checking for open circuit" means in this context. Actually, it follows rules:

Receiving current channel --> If 2 seconds have elapsed, check every enabled priority channel one at a time. --> If no carrier on any priority channel, return to the original receiving channel --> repeat.
 

UPMan

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Should have mentioned: I was Director of Product Development at RadioShack with categories including scanners when the PRO-95 was released. It could not do what you describe (actually, no scanner can do what you describe).
 

ofd8001

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UPMan - foregive me for going a tad off topic. Is the "Priority DND" function a selectable function meaning that you can turn it on to avoid on-going conversation disruption, or if desired, turn it off because you want to check the priority channel, even if it means disrrupting a conversation? (Hopefully it goes both ways).
 

MesquiteWx

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Again, your examples are impossible. If it is receiving a channel, it cannot also be scanning in the background without a 2nd receiver. There is no way for the scanner to know that there is traffic on a priority channel without actually tuning to that frequency. Not sure what "checking for open circuit" means in this context. Actually, it follows rules:

Receiving current channel --> If 2 seconds have elapsed, check every enabled priority channel one at a time. --> If no carrier on any priority channel, return to the original receiving channel --> repeat.


I understand it doesn't do that NOW, what I am saying is the firmware needs to be updated to handle this correctly. And yes this can be done if Uniden took the time to research this thoroughly. Nothing is impossible.

Like I said every freq is stored in a bank. How do you think the scanner handles only one transmission at a time? Why is that? Because it closes the banks on other active channels otherwise you would be hearing every transmission that was active at that moment. The scanner shouldn't be listening for channels it should be scanning banks for active circuit. You're in Arlington, I am in Mesquite. I will even bring you my 996XT and my Pro-95 and demonstrate this. On my 996XT with WxPriority on it interrupts scanner every 3 secs. On my Pro-95 it doesn't, why is that? You said that's impossible but if I show you and its doing exactly how I am describing then you'll see it is possible or I just found a hidden trick or bug that no one has ever found.
 

UPMan

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It isn't possible to add a 2nd receiver to the scanner by changing the firmware.

As to your second paragraph, that is not at all how a scanning radio receiver works.
 

MesquiteWx

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davidmc36

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Well proof is in the pudding. WxPri on the Pro-95 and it doesn't interrupt current traffic to check for a tone.

Pro-95 no interruptions with WxPri on:

http://www.mesquiteweather.net/video/IMG_4639.MOV

996XT WxPri on interrupts traffic:
You can see WX Pri is on in the bottom right corner and it isn't cutting out due to signal strength as you can see it is full signal strength

http://www.mesquiteweather.net/video/IMG_4641.MOV
You're full of it. I definitely heard an interruption there, two even I think. The second one was the first part of dispatch reply was cut off.:roll:

About all you can say is the 95 does not take as long checking, but there is for sure a break in the audio.
 

MesquiteWx

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You're full of it. I definitely heard an interruption there, two even I think. The second one was the first part of dispatch reply was cut off.:roll:
.

There was never an interruption so I don't know what you're hearing. The second one was because dispatch didn't key their mic long enough for the response and I can only email a video so long.

The two transmission were exactly the same in length. Just to satisfy the those in doubts I will take ANOTHER video where there is a LONGER transmission. Fact is it NEVER interrupts or cuts into current traffic to check,
 

UPMan

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The first transmission was just under 5 seconds long. The WX Priority check typically occurs every 6 seconds (but I don't know the specific priority check interval for the PRO-95). Also, the O/M states that the scanner does not do a priority check if you are on a trunked system. So, on that particular scanner, you would not receive a weather alert if you are scanning only trunked systems. Try putting the scanner on the Dallas PD (conventional) channels.
 

MesquiteWx

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The first transmission was just under 5 seconds long. The WX Priority check typically occurs every 6 seconds (but I don't know the specific priority check interval for the PRO-95). Also, the O/M states that the scanner does not do a priority check if you are on a trunked system. So, on that particular scanner, you would not receive a weather alert if you are scanning only trunked systems. Try putting the scanner on the Dallas PD (conventional) channels.

I have uploaed a longer video. And yes the weather priority does work on trunked systems. I wish there was severe weather in the area so I could leave a camera fixed on it because I only used that scanner on a trunked system and it always alerted me of a weather alert pushed by NWS.

Pro-95 Scanner with WxPri - YouTube

I don't understand as consumers we pay good money for these scanners and don't have a voice and just have to except the fact "That's just how it works" like these scanners can never be improved on?

I am telling you. I will personally bring you this scanner to keep for a week and you will see it doesn't interrupt current traffic while scanning for priority traffic, conventional or trunk. I am not blowing smoke out my *** and lying about this. Maybe I have a special unit or something but it just doesn't do what everyone keeps saying that's how it's suppose to work.

You don't have to had a 2nd receiver in the scanner. You can control this with firmware to monitor open and closed banks in the background. I KNOW IT DOESN'T"T WORK THAT WAY RIGHT NOW. What I am saying is it can be done.

What keeps other transmissions from walking on current transmissions when there could be multiple traffic available at the same time? It's controlled by the firmware keeping those banks closed. The same way it could monitor those banks for priority traffic and open it and close non priority channels. Otherwise you would be hearing all traffic available at the same time. You say it doesn't work on Trunk systems. Well what controls that? It's apparently not listening because if it was simply listening for traffic it wouldn't matter what kind of system it is. It's because the firmware controls that. These units are not that complicate in the age of technology we live in today. This can be greatly improved on. If we can have smart phones and tablets that are fully loaded in very tiny spaces I don't see how something like this can't be improved on instead of as consumers we just except the fact "That's just how it works". If we excepted that answer on everything do you think the things we have today would have ever been improved? It's not a hardware issue, it's a firmware design issue.
 
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