Couple questions regarding sites

[4436time]

Yes, it's a discovery process. In an effort to do what you'll be wanting to do - thin out the number of sites your scanning and still cover what you want to hear - determining which agencies affiliate with what sites is important, especially with some of the 'denials' (see other thread) that can occur on some sites....

I have to apologize, EC. What you're saying did occur to me, it just didn't come out in my post and I might have saved you a lot of typing had I said so. I certainly didn't intend for you to spell it out. It doesn't help I'm running on 8hrs of sleep in 3 days. But yes, I understand. Using Unitrunker last night on a few sites showed that there was in fact a lot of redundancy and although I agree much of it can be avoided and should be, which is the point here, there will be some overlap.

Let me ask you this, how many sites are within "earshot" of either of us at any given time, 10, maybe 20-25? Do you feel the amount of work you're doing to weed out a few CC's worth the effort? I realize that's not all you're doing with the info, but is it that critical that a few extra CC's are gunna clog the scanner up?

Of course, our goals are different. You're interested in extensive, detailed scanlists, and discovering new TG's, among other things, and I think you know mine. I want to hear as many "hot calls" as possible from all depts around town with two scanners. I've already removed most of the TG's by including only the first couple in each dept., and I'm further narrowing those using hit counts, which will be moved to a secondary list. But I'm getting there and still need to narrow down the sites. Just haven't decided I want to ride that same horse as you. May not have much choice.

Assuming it's possible and would make any difference, I also want to redo the scanlists using minimal TSYS's. But it seems tweaking them has become a chore, and that's with nothing changing in RR!!!

The more I think about this stuff, and read around (still digesting your post), the more it makes me want to dig into it...so as not to keep bothering everyone, really. So I may end up with a copy of Win500 before the day's over...before I start redoing scanlists...again...

Sorry for the wordiness. Thanks

 

[ecanderson]

It doesn't help I'm running on 8hrs of sleep in 3 days.

Ouch - I doubt I could even find the keys on the keyboard in that condition. You're doing pretty well!

Let me ask you this, how many sites are within "earshot" of either of us at any given time, 10, maybe 20-25? Do you feel the amount of work you're doing to weed out a few CC's worth the effort? I realize that's not all you're doing with the info, but is it that critical that a few extra CC's are gunna clog the scanner up?

I sincerely doubt I'd get more than 10 sites cleanly from here. Based upon what you're telling me, you must be up pretty high - I'm totally impressed with your coverage from down there.

You want to hear the "hot calls", and paring down to the first couple in each department might do just the opposite for you. Some of the most entertaining stuff occurs on the lesser used channels for many agencies. Many agencies will switch all traffic for some "event" off to one of their TAC frequencies so they can have dedicated air time and not clutter up the primary channel. Wouldn't want the SWAT guys interfering with the guys giving out tickets, right? <g> So do be judicious in your paring of some of the agency channels, most particular those of any LEO channels of interest to you.

Of course, our goals are different. You're interested in extensive, detailed scanlists, and discovering new TG's, among other things, and I think you know mine. I want to hear as many "hot calls" as possible from all depts around town with two scanners. I've already removed most of the TG's by including only the first couple in each dept., and I'm further narrowing those using hit counts, which will be moved to a secondary list.

See above, and exercise caution there.

I'm not after comprehensive scanlists as much as I am, like you, trying to find the nuggets. Many of the most interesting happenings light up a particular talkgroup very infrequently. Knowing where they can be found is of interest. For example, as I'm cruising down I-25 from Ft. Collins towards home, if there's something on Longmont's SWAT TG, I'd like to be listening to that on the way, and so it's programmed as a priority TG for both the Mead AND the Loveland sites.

May not have much choice.

Chuckle - the wealth of sites you can hit turns out to be a curse! You've got a lot more paring down to do than I have. My objective in all of this has really been to pare down the total CCs I'm scanning by determining the minimum number of sites required to cover the geography. In that sense, I think we're working towards pretty much the same goal.

FWIW - I'm still working only 5 sites on the base rig, and have managed to suck up 933 blocks so far, and that leaves me with 919 available. Then again, the home rig has every TG that has affiliated with any of those 5 sites, and you can't "share" a TG instance between TSYS -- each is a unique entry.

Sooner or later I'll pare down the base rig as well. For the mobile rig, I really didn't have any choice but to do so early on. I've got a different problem there since I'm running an old Pro-2096 in the car, and it doesn't approve of 700MHz post-Nextel frequencies. That's made picking and choosing a lot more entertaining. Guess I should break down and pick up another Pro-197 (aka GRE PSR-600) for $299 while R.S. still has the refurbs available. Like I noted before, the refurb I bought didn't have a mark on it. Looked like it had never been used.

 

[MikeyB]

Definitely learned something today. Just looked up the actual map of Centennial - wow, what an odd configuration, and I had NO idea you guys went that far west. Figured that would be Littleton. I see you have a little piece of Aurora entirely surrounded out there to the east.

Anyway, I'm still impressed that you get a clean read from sites like Horsetooth - line of site, but quite a distance. What's your elevation where you are, give or take?

Google Earth says I'm at 5580 feet and I usually listen from the 2nd story of a 2 story so I'm a bit higher. It feels weird that Centennial goes so far east - almost like there's two Centennials. I'm in the older, more dense part and then you get east of I-25 and the boundaries are irregular and it's all newer. Don't know how the eastern part got drawn out when they incorporated. But that's a different story! 3 Fire Districts and used to be 4 before Parker and South Metro joined!

 

[4436time]

I sincerely doubt I'd get more than 10 sites cleanly from here. Based upon what you're telling me, you must be up pretty high - I'm totally impressed with your coverage from down there.

Looks like I'm a few miles south of MikeyB (at ~6000ft). With the exception of two sites, I'm receiving the first set at 99% with 4 to 5 bars. Have yet to check the second set, but will to see what they offer. I picked up Win500...

Adams County Simulcast - 772.99375
Arapahoe Admin - 853.2375
Buckhorn Mtn - 853.2625
Chevron - 853.8375
Dakota - 853.4625
DRDC CF - 853.9625
DTB - 853.7000
Lookout Mtn - 853.7750
Mt Thorodin - 853.9750
Riley Peak - 853.9125
Smokey Hill - 853.8750
Franktown - weak
Silver Heights - weak

Araria Campus - 770.40625
Betasso - 853.9500
Deer Trail - 853.9375
DRDC DF - 853.9625
DTB - 853.7000
Ft Lupton - 773.41875
Gunbarrel - 774.88125
Hoyt - 774.79375
Kiowa - 774.56875
Longmont - 774.20625
Mead - 853.9875
Ramah - 853.2875
Squaw Mtn - 853.8500
State Capitol - 770.18125
West Creek - 853.9375
Zap - 853.5125

You want to hear the "hot calls", and paring down to the first couple in each department might do just the opposite for you. Some of the most entertaining stuff occurs on the lesser used channels for many agencies. Many agencies will switch all traffic for some "event" off to one of their TAC frequencies so they can have dedicated air time and not clutter up the primary channel. Wouldn't want the SWAT guys interfering with the guys giving out tickets, right? <g> So do be judicious in your paring of some of the agency channels, most particular those of any LEO channels of interest to you.

If/when I hear a hot call, which can lead to those types of situations, I switch to a Fave on the HP-1 containing the full set of freqs including TAC and SWAT, etc. for that system. (I caught the barricade situation in Lakewood the other night.) Otherwise, the primary list contains mostly disp/ch1, (but all Denv PD disp ch's) while the secondary contains city wide and Ch3, 4, 5, etc. When things are hopping, only primary is enabled, and when not, the secondary gets enabled.

IMO, it'd be nice if we had an app with the ability to control two scanners simultaneously to act as one. For example, with the HP-1 and 197 both scanning the same list and occasionally landing on the same transmission, it would be nice to have a way to tell one of them to continue scanning. I'm sure we could come up with a few more reasons to have this feature.

I'm not after comprehensive scanlists as much as I am, like you, trying to find the nuggets. Many of the most interesting happenings light up a particular talkgroup very infrequently. Knowing where they can be found is of interest. For example, as I'm cruising down I-25 from Ft. Collins towards home, if there's something on Longmont's SWAT TG, I'd like to be listening to that on the way, and so it's programmed as a priority TG for both the Mead AND the Loveland sites.

True, and it's an excellent idea for another exclusive scanlist! Edit - removed -> which would cover the concerns you mention above!

Chuckle - the wealth of sites you can hit turns out to be a curse! You've got a lot more paring down to do than I have. My objective in all of this has really been to pare down the total CCs I'm scanning by determining the minimum number of sites required to cover the geography. In that sense, I think we're working towards pretty much the same goal.

I agree. It takes a while, but I eventually come around to others way of thinking...

FWIW - I'm still working only 5 sites on the base rig, and have managed to suck up 933 blocks so far, and that leaves me with 919 available. Then again, the home rig has every TG that has affiliated with any of those 5 sites, and you can't "share" a TG instance between TSYS -- each is a unique entry.

Sounds like you have plenty of space, especially if you get another 197. I could use another scanner for fire/EMS, but wanted to wait to see what GRE/RS/Uniden's offerings were this round. With the ability to monitor most everything already with what we have, however, I'm not sure there's any reason to wait other than to hope for another price drop when RS releases their version of the PSR-800.

I should take the opportunity to mention here that another reason I bought ARC500 was that it was recommended by Paul, the Douglas/Elbert County live feed provider, who was kind enough to share his complete list that was nice to have when I got the 197.

Gotcha on the duplicate TG's on the same system. Wasn't sure how the scanner handled those...and no need to consolidate TSYS's.

Sooner or later I'll pare down the base rig as well. For the mobile rig, I really didn't have any choice but to do so early on. I've got a different problem there since I'm running an old Pro-2096 in the car, and it doesn't approve of 700MHz post-Nextel frequencies. That's made picking and choosing a lot more entertaining. Guess I should break down and pick up another Pro-197 (aka GRE PSR-600) for $299 while R.S. still has the refurbs available. Like I noted before, the refurb I bought didn't have a mark on it. Looked like it had never been used.

It being cute and all, it almost sounds like you could use an HP-1 for the commute.

Edit: What's the significance of your avatar?

 

[ecanderson]

It being cute and all, it almost sounds like you could use an HP-1 for the commute.

At around $485 best price (that I've seen anyway) plus the price of the GPS puck that actually makes it useful for the 'commute' (another $90), we're talking around $575. I can push the odd button on a new Pro-197 for $299 to change scan lists a lot cheaper!

Edit: What's the significance of your avatar?

LONG story having to do with another forum long ago.

 

[4436time]

It being cute and all, it almost sounds like you could use an HP-1 for the commute.

Just razzin' ya...

At around $485 best price (that I've seen anyway) plus the price of the GPS puck that actually makes it useful for the 'commute' (another $90), we're talking around $575. I can push the odd button on a new Pro-197 for $299 to change scan lists a lot cheaper!

Very true.

Thanks

 

[ecanderson]

It's certainly not as though I don't appreciate the concept of the technology -- although it's use as a base station at that price is questionable. However, with location awareness, assuming I'm the one that gets to decide what's heard where (not clear how that's implemented on these units), the auto-switching of sites and TGs based upon location is just plain slick.

I wonder if a GPS device that I already own that is capable of raw NMEA output (with Garmin extensions) would prove sufficient for the location input on one of these units? I haven't seen any description of the API or similar that would explain just what the connection is between the two devices.

 

[4436time]

The HP-1 works pretty well, but isn't for everyone. Aside from the lack of tweakability, the large color LCD (aka big screen) with fully decriptive alpha tags, good reception, and small footprint makes it worthy as a base IMO. Depends on your definition of base station I guess. After the sites are narrowed down on the 197 I intend to do the same with the HP-1 using ARCPatrol. So I don't see tweakability being as important as some might in that respect.

As for GPS device(s), sorry, I have a couple but haven't tried going mobile. So unfortunately I can't answer your questions. There are a number of threads here and on the HP website however that might. I just don't have any interest in using it that way. Although, I may at some point.

 

[ecanderson]

Thinning the herd:

Have spent a few days comparing traffic on Buckhorn (3-013) vs. Bald North (3-061). Some notable *differences* (many agencies are getting similar hit counts), beyond which, the remainder is pretty much duplicative between sites, or really don't really belong on either (e.g., Pagosa Springs FD and the jail out in Sterling!) and are evidently being caused by 'travelers'.

Berthoud FD and PD are *much* more likely to affiliate with Bald N. Rare on Buckhorn.
CSP Boulder 6C hits Bald N often, rarely Buckhorn.
Estes Park ambulance, EMS, FD and PD all appear on Bald N, do not appear on Buckhorn.
Ft. Collins PD seems to hit Buckhorn about 2X the number of times as they do Bald N.
Greeley PD and FD rarely hit Buckhorn, seem to prefer Bald N.
Larimer Humane hits Bald N most of the time - rarely Buckhorn.
Larimer Parks same - almost always on Bald N, rarely Buckhorn.
Longmont PD all carried on Bald, never at all on Buckhorn.
Loveland PD and FD *much* more likely to be found on Bald N than Buckhorn.
Northglenn PD keeps showing up on Buckhorn, never Bald N. Not full traffic, though.
Poudre FD channels frequent on Buckhorn, much less so on Bald N (except #5, which appears equally on both).
PVH almost exclusively covered from Bald N. Very rare on Buckhorn.
Weld EMS services 3X more likely on Bald N than on Buckhorn, but Weld FD split evenly.
Weld non-county LEO (e.g., TG1938, 1946) half again more likely on Buckhorn than on Bald N, but Weld sheriff evenly split.

That brings me to a conclusion of "advantage Bald North" if it's a matter of choosing one over the other.

 

[4436time]

Well, I may be wrong, but it would seem you'd almost have to use both sites in order to guaranty hearing everything at all times.

 

[ecanderson]

Based upon topography and denials, you'd probably have to listen to 100% of the DTRS sites to assure that. Like I say - if you have to choose one over the other (and those of us without a few dozen scanners on the desk do!)... the only serious LEO hit would be to Greeley, and I'd be far more inclined to pick that off a site further east in any case. For coverage up and down the areas closer west, Bald N appears to do a much better job.