Create CLP-5130-1N

[Diverdan86]

Good evening!

Anyone with a Create 50-1300MHz CLP-5130-1N (or it's variants) measured how it performs transmitting in the VHF 150's & 160's MHz (MURS, Commercial, and Marine bands) and UHF 450's and 460's MHz (Commercial and GMRS bands)? If it is a decent performer in these areas, it may well be one of the few true antenna-farm-in-one antennas!

I am planning on flying this antenna on a mast at approx. 40' with a 125' run of coax into my 'ham shack-closet' to allow for full spectrum 6m, VHF, 220, and UHF Rx and Tx coverage with one antenna.

Thanks!

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

That is a horizontally polarized antenna . For local, line of sight the polarity mismatch will cost you in signal strength for mobile radio and marine systems. For random DX, the polarity may or may not matter. YMMV

 

[Diverdan86]

That is a horizontally polarized antenna . For local, line of sight the polarity mismatch will cost you in signal strength for mobile radio and marine systems. For random DX, the polarity may or may not matter. YMMV

True. I was thinking of coming up with some way to switch polarity from horizontal to vertical at a whim. Thanks for the input!

 

[Ubbe]

That high up in the mast it will mostly receive signals in their original polarity. So perhaps 10dB loss due to polarity mismatch. The antenna has something like a 6dB gain so will probably work worse than a discone up to 500MHz that are working as full omni.

I've looked at that antenna and the support are too weak to allow a vertical orientation so will need you to manufacture your own to support that heavy antenna.

/Ubbe

 

[Diverdan86]

That high up in the mast it will mostly receive signals in their original polarity. So perhaps 10dB loss due to polarity mismatch. The antenna has something like a 6dB gain so will probably work worse than a discone up to 500MHz that are working as full omni.

I've looked at that antenna and the support are too weak to allow a vertical orientation so will need you to manufacture your own to support that heavy antenna.

/Ubbe

Awesome feedback thank you. I was thinking about utilizing a switching mechanism found on many power poles (see attached photo) to physically polarity at a whim. Have you come across a discone with this wide of coverage for RX and TX? Come across a few that claim it but they seem sketchy.

 

[trimmerj]

I use vertical polarization on mine. Section of mast above rotor is pvc stuffed with a wooden dowel to make it more rigid. Good performer.

 

[Ubbe]

The standard size discone you can buy at a $100 range are all covering 100MHz-1000MHz with a low SWR but the design only allow a 100-500MHz use as their direction pattern shift from the horizon the further up in frequency you go. Most of them have an additional vertical whip that can be cut to cover down to 40MHz and there's even some 27MHz models. But that vertical whip are narrow banded so usually works good at +/-10% from the cut frequency and then gets gradually worse.

So the suggested solution are to use a discone and cut the whip to where your local frequencies are in use and then use a diplexer filter that allows the use of two antennas, one below 600MHz for a discone and one above it that can either be a vertical antenna with some gain for the frequency range where you have the weakest systems you would like to receive, or use a discone designed to cover from 400MHz that will then work fine for 700-1000MHz. You can take a standard discone and cut all its elements to a 1/4 of their length. It can then be a cheap Tram model as there will be very little wind resistance and weight and will hold up fine to the weather environment.

Diplexers have an almost zero attenuation but there seems to be difficult to find them at a reasonable price, but Ebay sometimes have surplus ones. Check that it covers the frequency ranges you'll need. You will probably need pigtails with the correct connectors for the diplexer and antennas.

/Ubbe

 

[mmckenna]

True. I was thinking of coming up with some way to switch polarity from horizontal to vertical at a whim. Thanks for the input!

Usually not much to listen to on horizontal, unless you are really interested in ham SSB stuff.

They can be mounted so they are vertically polarized. Per the sheet: AM-401A Vertical Mounting Kit

The county run radio shop here has one at their shop, mounted vertically. It's been up for the 26 years I've been visiting those guys. Not sure they use it. It's on a rotor, and I don't think I've ever seen it move.

As a general antenna for a scanner, keep in mind its directional, so you'll need to scan as well as rotate it. But the VHF/UHF stuff and higher that you probably want to listen to is line of sight, and big directional antennas are not usually needed. Either the signal is there, or its not. A bit of fringe coverage stuff can benefit from the gain, though. The county guys used theirs for direction finding interference sources.

 

[Diverdan86]

I use vertical polarization on mine. Section of mast above rotor is pvc stuffed with a wooden dowel to make it more rigid. Good performer.

Great info thanks! Have you ever analyzed how it performs in the 150's & 160's MHz or 450's and 460's MHz?

 

[Diverdan86]

Usually not much to listen to on horizontal, unless you are really interested in ham SSB stuff.

They can be mounted so they are vertically polarized. Per the sheet: AM-401A Vertical Mounting Kit

The county run radio shop here has one at their shop, mounted vertically. It's been up for the 26 years I've been visiting those guys. Not sure they use it. It's on a rotor, and I don't think I've ever seen it move.

As a general antenna for a scanner, keep in mind its directional, so you'll need to scan as well as rotate it. But the VHF/UHF stuff and higher that you probably want to listen to is line of sight, and big directional antennas are not usually needed. Either the signal is there, or its not. A bit of fringe coverage stuff can benefit from the gain, though. The county guys used theirs for direction finding interference sources.

Good point and from what I understand vertically mounted at 35-40' this antenna would still receive and transmit SSB, though not a high performer, correct?

 

[trimmerj]

Guess I could do some recieved signal strength comparisons with other antennas.

 

[Diverdan86]

The standard size discone you can buy at a $100 range are all covering 100MHz-1000MHz with a low SWR but the design only allow a 100-500MHz use as their direction pattern shift from the horizon the further up in frequency you go. Most of them have an additional vertical whip that can be cut to cover down to 40MHz and there's even some 27MHz models. But that vertical whip are narrow banded so usually works good at +/-10% from the cut frequency and then gets gradually worse.

So the suggested solution are to use a discone and cut the whip to where your local frequencies are in use and then use a diplexer filter that allows the use of two antennas, one below 600MHz for a discone and one above it that can either be a vertical antenna with some gain for the frequency range where you have the weakest systems you would like to receive, or use a discone designed to cover from 400MHz that will then work fine for 700-1000MHz. You can take a standard discone and cut all its elements to a 1/4 of their length. It can then be a cheap Tram model as there will be very little wind resistance and weight and will hold up fine to the weather environment.

Diplexers have an almost zero attenuation but there seems to be difficult to find them at a reasonable price, but Ebay sometimes have surplus ones. Check that it covers the frequency ranges you'll need. You will probably need pigtails with the correct connectors for the diplexer and antennas.

/Ubbe

Awesome. And just to clarify your recommendations are for receive and transmit or just receive/scan?

 

[vagrant]

I would run that log periodic antenna vertically unless you plan to use SSB "regularly". Most stations 144 MHz and up are vertically polarized, especially using FM. Imagine going from 500 watts to 5 watts, or more, with the wrong polarization. That loss is also during RX as well. You'll need a rotor, or again you will suffer TX/RX loss if not pointed in the direction of the station you wish to TX/RX. If I had to use only one antenna and needed that bandwidth, I would just use a discone and enjoy the omni-directional aspect without having to constantly spin the antenna. Just put the discone above the roofline and enjoy the significantly easier mounting aspect, versus what would be needed for that particular log periodic. ( I use multiple antennas that offer gain on all the frequencies you mentioned - I'm in no mood for one antenna, but that's me )

Also, a 125' run of coax is not going to be friendly on UHF unless you plan on running some decent coaxial cable like LDF4-50A, LMR-600, or better. If you could do a 50' run even LMR-400 coax would be okay.

 

[mmckenna]

Good point and from what I understand vertically mounted at 35-40' this antenna would still receive and transmit SSB, though not a high performer, correct?

It's going to be attenuated quite a bit.

And, for what? There's very little ham radio traffic on SSB on the frequencies this antenna covers. Listening to a very small, tiny subsection of the ham bands where you may not ever hear anything, and even if you do it's going to be boring ham stuff, not sure of the purpose.

But, if you -really- wanted to spend all that money on this, there are azimuth/elevation rotors. You could use the elevation rotor part to turn the antenna 90º. But it's going to be expensive, and for very litte traffic, if any.

And like Vagrant said, 125 feet of coax for 800MHz, you really are looking at needing some high grade stuff, even if you are running a preamp at the antenna. This isn't a place where you want to run Radio Shack RG-8, or some crappy cable.

 

[Diverdan86]

I would run that log periodic antenna vertically unless you plan to use SSB "regularly". Most stations 144 MHz and up are vertically polarized, especially using FM. Imagine going from 500 watts to 5 watts, or more, with the wrong polarization. That loss is also during RX as well. You'll need a rotor, or again you will suffer TX/RX loss if not pointed in the direction of the station you wish to TX/RX. If I had to use only one antenna and needed that bandwidth, I would just use a discone and enjoy the omni-directional aspect without having to constantly spin the antenna. Just put the discone above the roofline and enjoy the significantly easier mounting aspect, versus what would be needed for that particular log periodic. ( I use multiple antennas that offer gain on all the frequencies you mentioned - I'm in no mood for one antenna, but that's me )

Also, a 125' run of coax is not going to be friendly on UHF unless you plan on running some decent coaxial cable like LDF4-50A, LMR-600, or better. If you could do a 50' run even LMR-400 coax would be okay.

Thanks for the info! I was planning on using LMR-600 or equivalent due to the long run from a 40' mast into the cabin shack. My use of ham band SSB would almost exclusively be on 6m. I will have a separate 10m & 11m antenna for SSB on those bands.

I will have to look back into the discones again; for some reason I kept only finding receive only/scanner discone wide-band antennas. Heck, I may even save some money! Thank again!

 

[mmckenna]

Thanks for the info! I was planning on using LMR-600 or equivalent due to the long run from a 40' mast into the cabin shack. My use of ham band SSB would almost exclusively be on 6m. I will have a separate 10m & 11m antenna for SSB on those bands.

For all the hassle of swapping the polarity on the log periodic, you could probably get a dedicated 6 meter yagi easier/cheaper.

I will have to look back into the discones again; for some reason I kept only finding receive only/scanner discone wide-band antennas. Heck, I may even save some money! Thank again!

Discone antennas will transmit just fine, I've been using one for years. I picked up a free Diamond discone and I've used it on 2 meter band and some work stuff for quite a while, fed with about 30 feet of LMR-600.

Discone antennas have the wide bandwidth, which makes them attractive. They also have zero gain, and as mentioned above, the radiation pattern gets really wonky at the higher ends.

Kind of a big jump between a wide range log periodic antenna and a discone, kind of complete opposite ends of the antenna spectrum.

 

[Diverdan86]

For all the hassle of swapping the polarity on the log periodic, you could probably get a dedicated 6 meter yagi easier/cheaper.



Discone antennas will transmit just fine, I've been using one for years. I picked up a free Diamond discone and I've used it on 2 meter band and some work stuff for quite a while, fed with about 30 feet of LMR-600.

Discone antennas have the wide bandwidth, which makes them attractive. They also have zero gain, and as mentioned above, the radiation pattern gets really wonky at the higher ends.

Kind of a big jump between a wide range log periodic antenna and a discone, kind of complete opposite ends of the antenna spectrum.

Interesting! How does this sound: a 6-METER YAGI ANTENNA for SSB, something like a Comet DS-150S Discone for 50 MHz and 140 MHz through 470 HMz AM/FM, and a Solarcon Antron A-99 for 10 meter SSB and 11 meter AM/SSB/FM?

 

[mmckenna]

I have no personal experience with that 6 meter antenna, though MFJ isn't always highly regarded.
The A-99 seems to be liked by many. I'm not a CB'er so my opinion isn't worth much.

The Discone is a "do everything, but do it poorly" type of solution. I have a Diamond, and it's worked for me. They are low performance antennas (all discone's are) and their only benefit is wide bandwidth. If budget isn't a factor, consider band specific antennas for what you want. A band specific antenna with a bit of gain will easily out perform the discone.
If a discone is really what you want, consider the Diamond D130NJ. It has the N connector on the base, and that's a better option for higher frequencies. I've had mine up for 10+ years now, and it's done just fine. Some of the cheaper discone antennas have hollow elements that will bend/break easily.

 

[Diverdan86]

Thanks for all the help folks! Basically, but obviously not simply, I’m trying to get on air-on for most, if not all, of the technicians-level ham bands plus CB, MURS, and GMRS. My plan was to use my mobile radio rigs in my dedicated closet shack with switching power supplies. I live in a two-story log home with a metal roof and was trying to get the antenna/antennas away from the roof as best I could, hence the long run and the 40 foot mast. I have no current desire to go beyond the technicians level license into real HF, and have very little time to dedicate to tinkering with things due to my three kids, all into the age of six! But I do very much enjoy listening and talking to folks for an hour or so on a Friday evening. I knew that if I wanted to really got into radio, it would probably need be something I would tackle when the kids were older, or we had a ‘empty nest’, but we’ll see. Thanks again!

 

[mmckenna]

Metal roofs are not a bad thing, if you can get your antennas above them. Keeping your feed lines as short as possible is important. If you are really serious about this, a 40 foot tower next to your home would be a good solution.