Hello everyone! I am having a hard time figuring out what connectors to get. I mean really I've been spinning my wheels and need a little friendly advice to get this show on the road. My antenna has an N connector. The patch cable in my house has a BNC connector. I am using LMR-400 and I need one N male and one BNC male. All the youtube vidoes I've seen involve soldering, at least the center pin, except some products from Italy and then you have to use their wire. I do not want to purchase anything from Europe and I do not want to solder anything. I have seen some products that seem like maybe the center pin is crimped on to the center conductor but the documentation is vague. Is it possible do the connectors with just crimping? If so what are the best crimp connector to get? And what tools exactly will I need? I am not going to do this often so I just need the bare minimum of tools. I would like to get solid low loss connections that I don't need to tinker with again. Thanks in advance!
Crimp Connectors
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Here, make your life easy. An antenna patch cable with a BNC and an N connector. You'll need a barrel connector to attach to the antenna cable, or see if the seller has a female N connector to BNC connector cable.
LMR240 UF ULTRA FLEX BNC MALE to N MALE Coaxial RF Pigtail Cable USA | eBay
Cable Type: LMR240 Ultra Flex. Connector 1: BNC MALE. Connector 2: N MALE. Type: Ultra Flex.
www.ebay.com
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
There are solderless connectors for LMR-400:
But to install those, you need to have the correct tools:
If you are going to be doing a lot of connector installs, it's worth purchasing the correct tools. But if you are only installing a couple of connectors, it's going to be expensive. It takes some practice, so blowing a few $12 connectors is something you need to figure on. I have the Times/Microwave tools for LMR-400 and LMR-600 and they do a very good job of installing the connectors. Once you get some practice, its pretty easy to do.
If you don't want to invest in that, then soldering is your other option. But not just any cheap soldering iron, you'll need a high wattage one that has enough heat to solder the large connectors.
Usually it's a good idea to buy the cable with the connectors already installed if you don't want to put your own on. But, if you have a good soldering iron and crimp tool, give it a try. It's good practice and a good skill to have. It's just not an inexpensive segment of the hobby.
But to install those, you need to have the correct tools:
If you are going to be doing a lot of connector installs, it's worth purchasing the correct tools. But if you are only installing a couple of connectors, it's going to be expensive. It takes some practice, so blowing a few $12 connectors is something you need to figure on. I have the Times/Microwave tools for LMR-400 and LMR-600 and they do a very good job of installing the connectors. Once you get some practice, its pretty easy to do.
If you don't want to invest in that, then soldering is your other option. But not just any cheap soldering iron, you'll need a high wattage one that has enough heat to solder the large connectors.
Usually it's a good idea to buy the cable with the connectors already installed if you don't want to put your own on. But, if you have a good soldering iron and crimp tool, give it a try. It's good practice and a good skill to have. It's just not an inexpensive segment of the hobby.
I'm no expert even though I've probably crimped a couple of thousand connectors. In some industries like broadcast there are specific connectors made for specific cable and the center pin crimps perfectly like using the correct Canare BNC connectors on 75 ohm Belden 1694A with the proper Canare crimpers and dies.
I've not found the same true for radio cables like RG-58, RG-142 and RG-8X flavors as the center pin usually gets distorted during crimping and ruins the connector. I've used many brands of crimp connectors and crimpers and have yet to find the magic combination that works right. I always end up soldering the center pin and crimping the shield on these, which is not that bad. If you gear up with a 40 watt soldering iron and inexpensive crimpers for the shield you can make very good connections every time as long as you prep and trim the cable to spec.
For Times LMR400, LMR500, LMR600, LMR240, etc, the only way to go is the Times EZ connectors and Times prep tools. That's expensive but you get what you pay for. Perfect connections that will sweep perfectly to many GHz.
I've not found the same true for radio cables like RG-58, RG-142 and RG-8X flavors as the center pin usually gets distorted during crimping and ruins the connector. I've used many brands of crimp connectors and crimpers and have yet to find the magic combination that works right. I always end up soldering the center pin and crimping the shield on these, which is not that bad. If you gear up with a 40 watt soldering iron and inexpensive crimpers for the shield you can make very good connections every time as long as you prep and trim the cable to spec.
For Times LMR400, LMR500, LMR600, LMR240, etc, the only way to go is the Times EZ connectors and Times prep tools. That's expensive but you get what you pay for. Perfect connections that will sweep perfectly to many GHz.
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techman210
Member
Crimping any coax cables successfully involves only three steps:
1) Use a quality cable
2) Use the connector designed and recommended by that cable manufacturer
3) Use the tool recommended by that manufacturer
Now, you’re an expert.
prcguys first line is pretty much spot-on.
1) Use a quality cable
2) Use the connector designed and recommended by that cable manufacturer
3) Use the tool recommended by that manufacturer
Now, you’re an expert.
prcguys first line is pretty much spot-on.
There is more to it. You need to have a stripper for each type of cable and that stripper has to be set up properly to strip at the right points and at the right depth. The ability to crimp a center pin seems to rely on having the specific crimper die for the specific brand of connector and specific cable. It seems crimper dies for stranded or solid copper center conductor do not work on solid copper clad steel center conductor because the copper can conform to the inside of the center pin where steel will not.
When I worked for Hughes Aircraft we had the right crimpers (very expensive) that were calibrated periodically and did a fantastic job. I believe they had four teeth that were driven into the sides of the center pin and mash into the center conductor where consumer types just have a hex shape that squeezes the pin and that is hit or miss depending on the brand of connector and the OD of the center pin.
I also had to attend several days of connector school at Hughes to properly prep cables and use the tools. You don't become an expert just by buying certain cable, connectors and tools, you must know how to use them. The end result of my schooling was being certified to attach and test connectors to 40GHz. Many hamsters without training can't be trusted to attach a 1/4" guitar plug, never mind an RF connector.
When I worked for Hughes Aircraft we had the right crimpers (very expensive) that were calibrated periodically and did a fantastic job. I believe they had four teeth that were driven into the sides of the center pin and mash into the center conductor where consumer types just have a hex shape that squeezes the pin and that is hit or miss depending on the brand of connector and the OD of the center pin.
I also had to attend several days of connector school at Hughes to properly prep cables and use the tools. You don't become an expert just by buying certain cable, connectors and tools, you must know how to use them. The end result of my schooling was being certified to attach and test connectors to 40GHz. Many hamsters without training can't be trusted to attach a 1/4" guitar plug, never mind an RF connector.
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techman210
Member
And if you must solder the center pin, put some solder flux on it first - it’s less likely that there will be a solder blob on that pin that will interfere with proper insertion into the connector.
You shouldn't need any flux if you use a solder with mildly activated rosin flux inside and the center conductor is clean. 60/40 tin/lead RMA or Rosin Mildly Activated is probably the most common solder available for hobby electronic work. If the center pin is gold plated you are supposed to tin it first along with the coax center conductor then remove all solder then assemble and do final solder. This goes for soldering to any gold or gold plated item. Those are the rules for all mil specs from the lowest end of Mil 454 through space qualified.
Does all this scare the OP or does he still want to make his own cables?
Does all this scare the OP or does he still want to make his own cables?
Thanks everyone for helping me get an understanding of this issue. I wish I could just buy a ready made solution but the connectors will not fit through the preexisting holes in my wall. So I would have to cut it and add at least one connector anyway. Today I am going to look over the products listed on this thread and figure something out.
Has anyone used/tested the Messi & Paoloni products? It seems that their system only requires a micrometer and a cutter:
messi.it
Has anyone used/tested the Messi & Paoloni products? It seems that their system only requires a micrometer and a cutter:
Messi & Paoloni: Coaxial Cables and RF Connectors
Production and sale of RF coax for telecommunications, Amateur radio, TV antenna, digital satellite, analyzer, military portable and marine communications.
messi.it
I've used both crimp & solder connectors and infinitely prefer solder connectors (more reliable long-term). As for connectors, we've used the standard PL-259 / SO-239 through 800MHz at Motorola with no problems (we went to "N" connectors once we hit about 900 MHz, though), and these are probably the easiest to assemble & lowest-cost connectors around.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
I haven't.
Maybe if you explain what the blocker is for the installation? I understand not having the crimpers, but there are other clamp type connectors out there, even ones directly from Times-Microwave.
Or is it the soldering that's your concern?
Unless you have the proper stripper, measuring yourself and cutting carefully is your option. And in reality, that can work very well. If you have a good sharp razor blade, you can do a good job.
As for soldering, if all you need to do is solder the center pin, it doesn't take a large iron to do it. The center pins are pretty small and easy to solder in place.
clamp only: https://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/times-microwave-ez-400-nmc-2-d-8167
clamp/solder pin: https://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/rfi-rfn-1002-1si-3394
-or- https://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/times-microwave-tc-400-nmc-2-3408
The blocker? I think your referring to where the cable has to go. There is a preexisting hole in the wall that is just big enough to fit the wire. I really do not want to drill the hole larger and than fill it with foam. For the crimpers; I can get the .100 and .429 die which would work (I think with RG213) but I cant even find a .118 die for the LMR400. I guess I was just hoping there was a system for clamping center pins on. Soldering seems to be a waste of time given that the learning curve will be significant as opposed to just crimping a pin on.
And I looked at the links to the antenna farm and, I will take your work for it about how they work, but you can see that they provide no instructions so that I can not tell exactly what installing the connectors would entail.
I am a little surprised that there is not an easy system. I can not imagine guys on a huge job, outside, up in the air, under adverse conditions, etc., whipping out soldering irons a hundred times a day. What's the theory? Soldering reduces loss? I don't think so, at least not enough to notice for this application. I think it just makes weak spots if its not done perfectly.
Thanks!
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
No, I was referring to why you could not solder the connectors, or crimp them.
I understand not having the right crimpers. They are expensive and you do need to have the correct size. Trying to use an incorrect size/type crimper is a sure way to have a connection fail.
Soldering irons are cheap and there's a lot of good tutorials on line to help you learn how to solder.
It says in the description. It'll show 'crimp' or 'solder' for the cable and center pin. As for installation instructions those come with the connector and you can look them up online at the manufacturers website. But don't expect the manufacturer to make it too easy. Their job is to show you how to install a reliable connection, not cut corners. They are going to expect this is being used in a professional application and that you'll have the experience and correct installation tools. In fact, the manufacturer will usually sell you the tools and require them if you want any sort of warranty backup.
Soldering is a reliable way to make a good mechanical and electrical connection. But you won't find professionals up on a tower with a soldering iron. The wind and large connectors tend to suck up the heat too fast and results in a bad connection. Soldering works fine for really small connectors when you can install them indoors or a controlled environment.
There is an "easy" system, but it requires using the Times-Microwave EZ style connectors and having the correct prep and crimp tools. If you were careful, you can prep the cable with the razor blade. You have to chamfer the center conductor to attach correctly to the EZ connectors, but you still need the correct crimp tool for the shield.
It doesn't get much easier than that, unless you want to do the solder on center pins and clamp style connectors.
clbsquared
Member
What size hole are we talking? 1/2" , 1", 2"?? Cut the hole big enough to get an "old work" electrical receptacle box in it and put a wall plate on it. Then drill the hole in the wall plate.
This crimp tool on the antenna farm: https://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/rfi-rfa-4005-300-5480
Add says the tool has a die for .100, 1.28, and .429. And I am assuming that that small die can be used to crimp the centerpin onto the center conductor and the .429 to crimp the barrel around the cable. Right? Easy peazy, no soldering. And it says it can be used for: " Die: LMR-100, RG-174, RG-316, RG-8, 9913, LMR-400, 213/U, 214/U". Now, I thought RG-213 centerpin die should be .100 and the LMR die should be .118. What am I missing here?
Add says the tool has a die for .100, 1.28, and .429. And I am assuming that that small die can be used to crimp the centerpin onto the center conductor and the .429 to crimp the barrel around the cable. Right? Easy peazy, no soldering. And it says it can be used for: " Die: LMR-100, RG-174, RG-316, RG-8, 9913, LMR-400, 213/U, 214/U". Now, I thought RG-213 centerpin die should be .100 and the LMR die should be .118. What am I missing here?
I've used similar crimpers and dies and never got a satisfactory crimp on the center pin. The dies end up over squeezing the pin and bending it so it never seats in the connector right. I always solder the center pins.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
It'll depend entirely on the connector you choose. Best way to determine the crimper size needed is to look at the instructions/specs for the connector at the manufacturers website.
mmckenna
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And I agree with PRCGUY. Don't try to cut corners on this or find easy solutions. Installing coaxial connectors and getting proper results really requires having the right tools and skills.
All this to avoid soldering or having the right crimpers is usually what results in failed connections.
It's your choice, but buying the wrong crimpers/tools gets expensive after a while. Buying the correct tool the first time usually saves money and sanity.
All this to avoid soldering or having the right crimpers is usually what results in failed connections.
It's your choice, but buying the wrong crimpers/tools gets expensive after a while. Buying the correct tool the first time usually saves money and sanity.
Yes the Times Microwave site gives up all the details so there is little left to the imagination.
So the Times site says these connectors use "Inner Contact Attach: Spring Finger". Are they not reliable or something? Is there a compelling reason to go with the solder-on centerpin types instead?
So the Times site says these connectors use "Inner Contact Attach: Spring Finger". Are they not reliable or something? Is there a compelling reason to go with the solder-on centerpin types instead?
If you have real Times LMR400, not another brand and not stranded center conductor, those are the very best connectors available. My 8yr old grand daughter can install one in a minute and it will sweep perfect to at least 6GHz. A lot of seasoned professionals can't install a connector with solder pin that will sweep ok to 6GHz, it starts to get very critical above a few GHz.
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